- Phoenix_Wombat
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Member for 9 years, 6 months, and 29 days
Last active Sat, Mar, 23 2024 22:29:20
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amalek0 posted a message on Modern Esper Draw-GoI think one of the problems is that, while many of us play in metagames that have well developed representation of the "top tier", they are also local metagames, which means they are replete with things like burn, tier-2/tier-3 combo, and people trying to make stuff like prison, 4c/5c teachings, and random tribal stuff work. Sure, if everyone in my local area were on twin, BGx, affinity, or one of the current "tier one" decks, I could tighten down and cut cryptics for removal and more mainboard -1/-1 effects, but I would lose all of the game I might have against, say, KCI eggs. Or UR storm. Or ad nauseum. Or stompy. Or jeskai ascendancy combo. The list goes on, but the end result is pretty much the same--we can't quite deal with all of the random crap if we buckle down on hard answers to tier one and lose all of the versatility that cards like cryptic command give us.Posted in: Control -
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Smallpox is probably the best thing, as the deck also does stuff like utopia sprawl, you may be able to get a card, a life, a land that made more than one mana, especially early.Posted in: Modern Archives - Deck Creation -
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WarMachinePrime posted a message on 8RackPosted in: Modern Archives - Deck CreationQuote from Phoenix_Wombat »Quote from Esperino »Don't think you are breaking some sort of new ground here. The last 10 pages have basically been people new to the deck "rediscovering" things about 8Rack, except going through the process of discussing all the bad cards about discard. The difference this time is that there are actually those who are convinced they are playabe. OK, yea, Destroyer is running Pack Rat, which is completely unplayable in competitive Modern, but in the tier space this deck is right now it might as well have Force of Will-levels of power. You, on the other hand, are running Dreadbore... so as long as you have things like that in your list there can be no discussion. I at least wouldn't take somebody who's playing sorcery-speed removal seriously.
I have a 190 posts only on 8Rack and have played with the deck since the original Primer thread. Let me give you a friendly advice here - you are way off. Way, way off of something playable outside the limits of the kitchen table. If you want to prove something you need testing and results. And after that - more testing. Theoretical deckbuilding and a minor following from other people newer to the deck than yourself won't get you anywhere. There is room for BR Rack, sure. In the current meta I even find it slightly more powerful (if built correctly, of course) because it has more interaction points with other decks. However, the mono-black list from the primer is not far behind (except that it's playing Pack Rat) and will get you to just as many places. Believe me when I say this, with not bad intent whatsoever - you aren't bravely mapping uncharted seas to distant, rich and fertile lands, you are lagging behind, drawn to the depths by the tide of all the junky discard-related cards.
I am very new to this deck and sadly cannot afford what I only can consider the best make or break cards (aka Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Liliana of the Veil) to make this absolutely fantastic as adding a playset of each would more then quadruple the current cost of my deck. So my choices, in my mind, are try to find substitutions to fill in the gaps or just say screw it and play a different deck.
But what I do know is that in my local meta, I have have had several people tell me that I am the worst kind of person for playing this type of deck. And on top of that I frustrated one of the top players in my area to the point of dropping after out after his match with my sub par deck. So I take that to mean I'm doing something right.
Granted I see where you are coming from, running sub optimal-irrelevantly under powered cards doesn't usually help people improve. But at the same time new decks cannot be discovered without experimentation and someone has to be willing to fail to see how their idea does in a real match. Otherwise everyone would be running Artifact Affinity, some variation of Zoo, or some variation of Tron cause those are proven decks. But it would also be a very dull game if this were the case.
And with that said I do not pretend to be the best player in the world. I often forget the upkeep trigger for Wolf-Skull Shaman in my Elf deck. I say I end my turn and realize that I forgot to play a land that turn. I know that I still have much to learn about this game. But I still like to see other people's ideas toward this archetype. Because it's through these sorts of interactions I feel that this game improves. "Looking at a card suggestion and saying to one's self "heh I never would have thought of that."
I shall get off my soap box now.
Well said. Don't let jaded Old Guard spoil it for you. Finding out what works takes trial and error. How boring of a game is it when everyone knows every card of every deck showing up at every tournament and every play that should be made with those. What would be the point of that? Innovation comes from those looking to push the boundaries. Does it happen all the time? Usually not. But no new ground will be covered if certainty and comfort are the name of the game. Glad you like to hear people's ideas. I'm willing to share and have stated mine are fringe thinking. Keep up the talk. I look at it this way. I see 8rack as a baseball team that keeps finishing in third or fourth place. It has the same players year after year with the same style of play year after year and what does that get the team? The same lousy finish year after year. Its obvious the team isn't going to ever move up in the standings without a shakeup or some sort of addition of new players, either rookies or veterans. Could be a small change or it could be a massive overhaul. Whatever the case the team needs change and just asking the manager of the team who has done things the same way for season after season because that is the way he does it isn't the answer either. Its time for a change.
I like baseball if you can't tell. Lots of strategy in it, just like Magic. Whatever the case don't let others hold you back in the thread. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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It went from an average of $10-$11 to $35 -_-* Without a doubt for that very reason.
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lol I just mentioned like two posts back that I switched from that weird deck to elves. Btw it's called 8rack. 2 or less cards in hand and the rack does 1-3 damage and 1 or less cards in hand and shrieking affliction does 3 flat damage. It's my favorite deck but I can definitely see how it could be a poor match up for elves.
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Round 1) Won vs Grixis Control(midrange) 2/0.
Game 1: Used smallpox early to lock him out of crucial land. Dropped necrogen mists and kept his hand empty until the racks and mutavaults did their job.
Game 2: Had to mull to five due to lands hating me, then basically the same strategy only he got enough lands to activate his creeping tar pit so we ended up racing damage. Then I drew another smallpox and that 1 damage just barely put me ahead in damage for the win.
Round 2) Lost to Junk 2/1
Game 1) Won game 1, locked him out of mana early with smallpox and drew really well to keep his hand empty while racks did their job.
Game 2) Collected company + eternal witness + kitchen finks = outpacing my everything. Also blocked two of my mutavaults with snapcasters cause "why not" as he so eloquently put it.
Game 3) Almost the same as above only he almost at the classic pod combo on the field before he killed me, told me after the game that his sideboard more or less turns his deck into melera/afenza infinite.
Round 3) Won vs lantern control 2/1
Game 1) Lost this round. Admittedly I wasn't expecting to see the deck last night so I spent game one learning the mechanics of the deck and doing my best to hamper him in the process. Got 1 rack out but it wasn't enough.
Game 2) Got a rack out turn 1, and an affliction out turn 2. He destroyed one with Abrupt Decay but didn't have an answer for the other. I already had him to 6 before he drew the red spellbomb.
Game 3) opening hand had an affliction, a rack, and a Nyxathid. Dropped the affliction and rack turns 1 and 2 to bait out the abrupt decay. ended up getting thoughseize turn three so I removed it from his hand instead. dropped Nyxathid turn 4, by then he had one land in hand. And from that point on I just let all three cards work their magic till I had the game.
Round 4) lost to Esper Control. 2/0
Game 1) This was a strange hybrid of Esper control and Esper aggro. Looked like he was running Esper Control build with 2-3 Tasigur for the lols. Anyways he kept his hand at 5-6 the whole game so the racks never went off. Beat me down with colonnade.
Game 2) Almost the same as above only he seemed to like the irony of using esper charms to make me discard 2 as "punishment" for making me play discard. (his words not mine) In the end I Couldn't out damage Tasigur.
Still think smallpox is a ridiculously underrated card for this deck. It practically sets your opponent to turn zero if you go first and you play it turn 2. And since most decks are 2+ color in the format so smallpox hurts them a lot. I think to a degree it also messes with you opponent since they know you have the capability to play smallpox so they are more likely to keep a larger land hand then normal or mull down to try and get a particularly optimal hand. This seems to be the case at least from my observations at my local FNM.
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Your english is perfectly fine my friend. As for smallpox yes its situational but its helped me so many times. If played against Say Infect, Zoo, or Burn it can severely set them back. Usually these decks will keep a low land hand figuring they will just empty in on the field in a few turns. Its their usual strategy and admittedly it usually works. But we are definitely not the sort of deck they usually expect. And that I would say is a definite advantage.
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I don't like going up against BloomTitan. A dislike that was re-enforced even further last week when I got killed by a Titan turn 2 round one. And then two Titans Turn two of the following round thanks to some stupid hi jinks with two amulets on the field and trigger tricks. I don't know, I understand that there are answers to the Titan deck. That it's hugely based on luck. And that they can ironically enough mana screw themselves. But I still feel the deck would be a whole lot fairer if the Amulet were removed.
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This man has my vote
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Yeah I get the same reaction from players. I have probably had a quarter of the players at my LCS tell me I was a horrible person for playing the deck. And I think quite a few of them aren't lying, you can kinda see it in a person's demeanor and their eyes. I have hit the point, as of recent, where if I'm asked to not play it I will more often them not switch decks. In the end I go to FNM to have fun, if other people can't expect to have roughly the same experience I feel like i'm doing something wrong. However I will play it if I know someone is playing storm because its my leave favorite deck to play against.
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I am very new to this deck and sadly cannot afford what I only can consider the best make or break cards (aka Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Liliana of the Veil) to make this absolutely fantastic as adding a playset of each would more then quadruple the current cost of my deck. So my choices, in my mind, are try to find substitutions to fill in the gaps or just say screw it and play a different deck.
But what I do know is that in my local meta, I have have had several people tell me that I am the worst kind of person for playing this type of deck. And on top of that I frustrated one of the top players in my area to the point of dropping after out after his match with my sub par deck. So I take that to mean I'm doing something right.
Granted I see where you are coming from, running sub optimal-irrelevantly under powered cards doesn't usually help people improve. But at the same time new decks cannot be discovered without experimentation and someone has to be willing to fail to see how their idea does in a real match. Otherwise everyone would be running Artifact Affinity, some variation of Zoo, or some variation of Tron cause those are proven decks. But it would also be a very dull game if this were the case.
And with that said I do not pretend to be the best player in the world. I often forget the upkeep trigger for Wolf-Skull Shaman in my Elf deck. I say I end my turn and realize that I forgot to play a land that turn. I know that I still have much to learn about this game. But I still like to see other people's ideas toward this archetype. Because it's through these sorts of interactions I feel that this game improves. "Looking at a card suggestion and saying to one's self "heh I never would have thought of that."
I shall get off my soap box now.
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Yeah I wish I had grabbed a playset of IoK before they spiked. Now they are ever so slightly out of my price range for the moment. Then again I also wish I had bought Thoughtseize at $11 dollars when the RTR rotated out. But I didn't have the foresight and was running Elves exclusively at the time. Oh well.
Infinite Obliteration Is an interesting card. Though personally I'm not sure why you would use that over Surgical Extraction or Extirpate since it cost 2 more, only hits a creature, and is sorcery speed.
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It worked surprisingly well. Since metas tend to run multiples I would Despise them then turn around and Surgical Extraction something hopefully useful. Or wait a few turns, get some cards in their graveyard them take my pick.
As for the Death Cloud/Haunting Echoes. It's kinda a place holder for the moment. I wasn't really sure what to put there. Though I can say that both games that I won week two were in large part due to me holding out to turn 5-10 then dropping haunting Echoes on the field and tearing their deck apart. So for now it's carrying its weight till I can find something else.