You are correct that it's a generalization to assume that the Magic community is bigoted based on a few of my own experiences, and I cannot make the statement about any given player, but after having experienced such things personally, it is reasonable for me to assume they will happen again. Yes, homosexuality is taboo in America, but that is neither here nor there when referring to the Magic community - you make good points, and I realize that my first argument is invalid as I am taking personal experience and assuming it is something that is more common in the world of Magic.
A man who would object to LGBT-focused sleeves while packing his own straight ones is a hypocrite; we can all agree with that sentiment. That doesn't mean that presenting said man's bigotry is a valid argument against banning heterosexually focused sleeves.
I discard my first argument.
I am not generalizing the public in any way, nor have I stated (anywhere, ever), that a societal norm applies to every single individual. That would be utterly ridiculous, and I'm not certain where you're getting it from.
Your point that it's the American public that finds this sort of thing offensive and not the global populace is both irrelevant and fallacious.
First of all, as a person holding interest in anthropology, I'm shocked you're making this argument, as you are effectively claiming that all of America should accept behavior that we (and we are far from the only country) find socially unacceptable simply because other societies have differing reactions.
This is an argument you could apply to literally every atrocity committed by a country that the public found to be socially acceptable. In many countries, it is considered abominable behavior to show even the slightest bit of eroticism in public. Am I going to visit these countries and expect to be allowed to roam around in my boxer shorts? No. What you're attempting to do is define socially acceptable behavior as anything that any culture has practiced that has been considered acceptable in that specific culture. I don't imagine this liberty would extend to the public stoning of sinners as a right to free speech, nor would Americans look kindly upon the genital mutilation of infants you mention (which has been outlawed in most of the world, I should mention.)
I live in a nation where this sort of thing is considered socially unacceptable. I'm unaware of first world countries where public eroticism is a societal norm that is not considered offensive by any significant portion of the population, and even if they do exist, it's irrelevant, as even with globalization looming on the horizon, social norms of a country thousands of miles away do not have to be accepted by the country I am in.
The bolded is a massive generalization and another example of a straw man.
I personally find these sleeves distracting because they have literally nothing to do with the card game I'm playing. As a vorthos, I like being able to look at the art on the cards and not have my suspension of disbelief ruined by people with flashy non-fantasy sleeves. A straight man who found them attractive would be even more distracted, all without finding them offensive.
What is acceptable in Japan is not what America has to consider acceptable, and what happens in America doesn't have to be accepted by China, as made clear in [II]. American society has nothing to do with this point however, because I, among other people who play the game for flavor, simply don't enjoy having my games distracted by bouncing anime tits. I feel a similar way about overly altered cards that have ceased to resemble Magic art, but thankfully those are, for the most part, banned.
in point 2, I'm clearly stating that it is a particular society that has a problem with something. Even then, to generalize that the society you live in looks at things in a particular way and only in this way is cause for concern. The United States is a cornucopia of cultures and ethnic groups.
You stated that as anthropologist you are shocked at my cultural relativist view point. Let me throw you in for a shocker, many anthropologist practice cultural relativism and inclusive use a broad and holistic approach towards their study. I am only doing what I have been thought to do. I never said that I did whole heartily agreed with some specific culture view points. Take Japans justice system capital punishment. Japan is more likely to execute criminals than the American justice system. Doesn't that American hasn't executed criminals, Texas being one of the highest in capital punishment executions. The point I am trying to make is that, we are specifically only talking about American Magic The Gathering players and not Japanese, Mexican, Brazilian, German, French, Spanish etc... Only American players. In the case of American players. we can easily see that there is an outside influence in certain sleeve art and so forth. So no I'm not creating straw hat fallacies, if anything you are taking them to be in this way because there are no set definitions on what society we are talking about. At which point I believe that a better question for your cause would have been, "Why do some American players like to play with sleeves or play mats that many Americans would consider as erotic images?" and even then, because not all Americans will consider "x" image as erotic, it leaves your question still a bit broad.
Overall I dont think you will receive the answer you are looking for unless you state the question in such a way that all terms are defined to mean what you have defined them to mean. Or provide what would be the most common definition of the word, have them stated and defined so that the language in question hinder the answers you are looking for.
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Edit: adding to the topic of my statement "These sleeves are only distracting to those people with a strong belief that nudity is taboo."
you stated that this wasa massive generalization. Well lets take a Holistic approach on the matter:
Sex is Taboo
The following institutions are affected by this:
Justice,
Religion,
Education,
Medicine,
Now lets see how sex is taboo in Religion: Religious folk will tell you that the body is created by a divine being, and hence forth should be covered based on the instructions of a divine personage. Multiple religious passages talk about covering ones nakedness and so forth. This country has a large sum of people that either practice or teach their culture to their young, hence forth the cycle continues.
Justice system - with all the laws on sex we know that many things are very prohibited. However what about sexual acts performed by two consenting adults? At one point does one adult become non consenting? There are many others things to look at in this particular institution of the American society.
Education - Sexual education classes teach that one should practice safe sex, yet at the same time this is thought to young adult about 16 years of age. Prior to this, you often see that the classes are often smutty and less scientific about sex. Words like *****, vulva, or ****** are often things to laugh about. However that's what the member is called. Its not a dick, ****, rod, boner, etc... and the ****** isnt a *****, ham wallet, and so forth. Many members of this society inclusive have a hard time trying to say the word ***** or ******. The King of the Hill episode on sex education is one way of seeing how many people (again not all) feel about sex.
Medicine - This structure is the one structure that does not consider sex taboo however they study the human body as a whole and are there to help many people. However when it comes to sexual member problems it is often this structure of society that helps many of the people that seek help. Pills like Viagra to help the flow of blood to the genital member is and was at one point something to not talk about. I dont know if you remember watching a Viagra or KY Jelly commercial for the first time. It leaves you in a bit of shock sometimes. Sometimes funny and other times just "woah"...
I dont believe that your reasoning behind the sleeves matter too much considering that when you play the game you will always see the art on the cards. However there are times where people do create alters on their cards that you might not like and I can understand a part of your disagreement with it, However as a vorthos it shouldn't stop at just anime characters. How would you feel about alters of Liliana of the Veil wearing a Santa Clause outfit? As a Vorthos, or an a person who really enjoys the printed artwork and the flavor behind the card, I'm sure that the distraction isnt just for erotic images but for any images that change the flavor of the game that you play. Then again, as a Vorthos how do you feel about the game art and flavor?
Insults to my intelligence, ad homonym attacks, and a general misunderstanding of the arguments I've stated and restated repeatedly. You repeatedly use an assumption that I don't have knowledge of anthropology as a basis for your debate. Allow me to supply you with some reading:
Sexuality, in the privacy of someone's own home, is none of my business. I have no right to tell people what sexual acts are moral and immoral.
If these sexual acts are brought into the public eye, I have every right to be offended. In most first world countries, displaying pornographic material publicly is not a right afforded by free speech. I am personally not morally offended by the public presence of erotic material, but there are many people who are, and it is common decency to restrain yourself from displaying this sort of thing in public to avoid upsetting people, especially those with children who may not have been exposed to such things.
If another person is to invoke this right in front of me and I am feeling coy, it would not be hypocritical if, assuming the material would only be seen by the person who is already freely exposing me to their erotic material, bring out my own potentially offensive material to counterpoint theirs. It would destroy their suspension of disbelief in the match as they have mine, it would provide them with the same distraction they are providing me, and they would be extremely hypocritical and bigoted to become offended.
No, the point made in that post was extremely obvious;
I, as a homosexual male, find Vein Drinker's art to hold entertainment value, because it's a fantastic picture that contains content other than sexual exploitation. The reason homosexuality is relevant is because a straight male sharing my position (such as the poster I was responding to) may find attraction to the character.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but your posts are extremely hard to read (possibly language barrier, as I'm assuming English is a second language to you), but I believe you misread my most recent post.
I re-stated my opinion and asked you for actual debate instead of irrelevant points, often in posts not directed at you or containing reference to the debate at hand, followed by unwarranted self-satisfaction.
I never stated my opinion was the only valid one. You're putting words in my mouth, and I return you to
The points of my argument, as has been stated numerous times, are
1: The double standard presented in the community involving these sleeves is ironic, as, in many parts of the MTG world, the same luxury would not be afforded to LGBT players.
2: Public eroticism, although not immoral, is not something you have the right to subject the public to, as many find it offensive.
3 (has not been stated repeatedly but is equally valid): These sleeves are distracting, and break suspension of disbelief.
You still have yet to respond to any of them.
What people find offensive and what social norms dictate is a fascinating anthropological issue - it's part of why I started this thread - but you don't seem to have any desire to comment on either of my main arguments, simply claiming I have a "closed mentality" for thinking the way I do.
Also, I already explained (twice) why the topic of "putting myself in their shoes" is nonsensical here, which you ignored. I should stop communicating with you, but I'd really like you to be able to read through my argument and provide a single valid counterpoint to any of the three points made above.
My views are quite flexible, and have been changed through debate numerous times. I'd love to hear your actual input.
By the way, you are incorrect that English is my second language. I often consider it at first since i was raised to speak both English and Spanish. Recently I started to learn both Dutch and Japanese. So id have to agree with you, that if you cant understand some of my sentences it could be because of the multiple languages that I am learning.
1: The double standard presented in the community involving these sleeves is ironic, as, in many parts of the MTG world, the same luxury would not be afforded to LGBT players. [I]"You are generalizing that the entire community is MTGS, or the current tournament you are participating in. That isnt the case. If you sat across from me with a play mat of two homosexual men, semi nude caressing each other I wouldnt care one bit. Heck you would probably notice that I wouldnt be playing with a mat in the first place since I try to carry as little as possible at any given event.[/I] So a "double standard" really is based on each individual persons perspective. I wouldnt auto state, that all players dislike homosexuality, but i will state that most Americans have a strong Puritan belief ingrained in them. Doesnt mean they practice a puritan religion, but many of the topics that are okay to talk about have slowly been loosened over time as societies grow. At one point the word "*****" could not be stated on tv. Now a days its common place in most tv dramas.
2: Public eroticism, although not immoral, is not something you have the right to subject the public to, as many find it offensive.[I] "Which public finds it offensive? the American public. I can assure you that not all societies are the same, and hence for this is where you have culture clash. When people from cultures in which this is perfectly fine are drowned by a majority that may not like something. At this point we can see an Ethnocentric viewpoint that one culture is the measuring stick for another cultures way of doing things. What is acceptable in one culture may not be in another. This is not new information. However lets talk about female genital mutilation. The cultures that are for it are the ones that practice it however the ones that are not tend to be the kind that consider sex taboo, or find no practical reason in doing it. Is there a practical reason for Female Circumcision, probably not. Of course to an American that may not understand it, may scream bloody murder, however there are always too sides to every coin. And so let look at this in the perspective that you are receiving the circumcision. One female anthropologist learned that she acquired a feeling of belonging (because many of the women in this society were circumcised [/I]she actually gain something in common with the rest of the women.) Her female bonding increased and so besides what Americans see as Mutilation (which the word it self sounds sinister). These women saw ritualistically a way to bond with all the women in the society. Like wise, when you state the public does not accept it, you are generalizing that every individual that makes the public does not want to see it. If that were the case then people wouldn't be showing it in the first place.
3 (has not been stated repeatedly but is equally valid): These sleeves are distracting, and break suspension of disbelief. ([I]These sleeves are only distracting to those people with a strong belief that nudity is taboo. However lets think about exactly where these images come from. Are they scantly images of Batgirl that bother you? or are they of some anime character named Sakura Haruno? These "anime" sleeves are not actual american now are they. It would seem that many of these anime sleeves are either imported or licensed by an American Distributor. In a game of chess would the opponent playing non standard pieces really break your concentration? would it be so distracting that you blatantly could not play the game? Americans have a strong puritan society, this hard engrained mentality that certain things are more "wrong" than others is common to see. Through then entire topic you've probably seen a parent state, I don't want my 16 year old exposed to that... However, do many of these parents that think this way also think that sex is taboo, or better yet, to talk about sex is taboo. [I will not generalize that all parents are this way, however many are, and so i will not generalize that ALL are this way.][/I] But this is an interesting question to ask the American public. Were not talking about Japanese which we know have public bathhouses and more often than not do not consider sex taboo.
I did read your entire post. But you know what was the consistent theme between this post and the one prior to that? the point that you've made up your mind that "it is wrong, and i am right" However you then state that you dont want to be Hypocritical, which you still are no matter what way you write it. Your still standing on one end saying, "Its wrong and i am right"
The reason why i posted about them masterbating is because YOU said it. You are making your self seem as if though you know what is right and what is wrong. But at the same time state, "I cant tell people what is right or wrong or else im being a hypocrite."
This mental gymnastic that you are doing in your head is leading no where. You've almost verbatim posted the same thing about how you want to do something "comical" and see how the opponent responds.
In another post you stated
Quote from nekoOtoko »
PS: Vein Drinker has fantastic art, and that's speaking as a gay male. And yes, she is a bad ass. No official art can really be called pervy.... I mean, ffs, magic isn't anywhere near as bad as the video game industry with the whole "skimpy outfits on every girl, give her a spunky personality to make it not seem sexist, ship, print" thing.
Does being a homosexual male make your opinions on art any more or less important than the next person? This here is showing your attitude as a whole about the entire situation. I asked you to place your self in their shoes, and you said, no never. For a quote "Open minded" individual you sure do show a very closed mentality at points.
Im not here to be condescending to you, or anybody, but Anthropology is in my blood. I enjoy looking at people and what they do and write about how they like to act socially. And at this moment i find it interesting that my position as a cultural relativist, is not letting these "sleeves, mats, or what ever" bother with my enjoyment of a card game.
Id suggest before you pop a blood vessel and get angry again, you rethink what you have been told is "socially" acceptable and what is not. You will find the answer very astonishing.
Wow, that's among the most condescending things I've read in my life.
No, I don't know they're masturbating to them, you're got me. I'm uncertain how that was such a major point that it was the only thing you felt the need to respond to in this point, glossing over my entire argument as if it didn't exist, but I suppose if you don't have anything to say you might as well touch upon something trivial and pat yourself on the back.
If you read my posts, you'd know that I don't care if they do or not. It's none of my business, I just don't want to be exposed to what is blatant fetish or pornographic material, and if the argument of freedom of expression is applied to the pornographic materials in this situation and they are to be forced upon me in public, I wish to expose whatever bigotry may lie present within the person presenting the material via presenting my own "offensive work of art". You still have yet to provide a counterpoint to that, yet you respond to each of my posts with a sickening tone of self-satisfaction. In fact many of the arguments you've made against me are things I've already discussed in the thread, or even points I've made against my own argument; every word you've said about the definition of art, every point you've made, I have already discussed in this thread. It was out of courtesy that I simply repeated my point.
To touch upon why your post bothers me so much, the act of generalizing an entire country, then using language that implies that an entire country of people is something to be studied, is among the most ignorant things I have read in my life. A generalization that broad is a textbook example of social elitism, even racism, and the fact that you'd make such an absurdly daft statement in an entirely unrelated discussion just proves that you're not in this thread to discuss anything related to the topic.
You're here to make yourself feel smart.
Making irrelevant, condescending statements that insult the intellect of an entire nation isn't going to make anyone think higher of you, nor is responding to a single, trivial point made in a discussion (quite clearly partially in jest and made with implied information), ignoring the rest of the point, and acting as if you've accomplished something for it.
Drop the smug attitude and provide rebuttals for each point I make, or you are simply arguing with yourself, and there is no need for a second party because you have already come to an unshakable predetermined conclusion of who is correct.
It's something that would point out hypocrisy if it exists (which is a good thing!), or provide both the other player and I with a laugh if the other player isn't hypocritical.
It'd be a jokey, completely biased, non-scientific social experiment to test if a person using their right of expression (regardless of the social acceptance of what their sleeves portray) would grant another person of differing sexual identity the same privilege.
You may be perfectly okay with presenting whatever you want to the public, be it full nudity or not. La maja desnuda is a gorgeous piece, and while I personally don't appreciate it enough to put it on sleeves, it's a perfect example of why I would be hypocritical to personally judge people for portraying other varieties of art on their sleeves. (Or, exactly what I just said in my last post.) It's not up to me to differentiate art from smut, and even though there seems to be a clear distinction to the public between the intricate lines and attention to detail of La Maja Desnuda and the hackish exploitative work of a lolita artist, there isn't a black and white definition of what art and smut even ARE. The distinction can't be made.
That said, when a piece produced in recent history clearly with the sole purpose of causing arousal is displayed publicly, people get uncomfortable, and it would be a kind gesture to the female and gay communities if the people using erotic sleeves would stop. While the distinction can't be made professionally or legally between art and pornography, on a personal level, it is your social responsibility to not publicly display things that.....
Well, let's be honest, these guys are masturbating to their sleeves.
So if you believe I should grant the users of ero sleeves, free of judgement, the right to display what you believe they consider to be art, they should allow me to respond with a humorous piece that may or may not offend their sensibilities. Complaining about it would be hypocrisy itself.
Thank you. It's very difficult to argue this point with the trading card game population sometimes, especially when the American public is still in belief that a straight couple making out on a college campus (something I see on a daily basis) is a socially acceptable act, but two men holding hands is a public sexual display.
What someone does in the privacy of their own home is none of my business. I just don't want to be exposed to someone's masturbatory material in public, and if they insist it's their form of self-expression, I expect them to grant me the same privilege.
The flaw in the "put yourself in their shoes" argument, in this case, is that in order to do that I'd need to make the decision to sleeve my deck up like that and display it outdoors. I find that to be socially unacceptable behavior, as would most people, and, as such, it would never happen. Perhaps your goal was to make me feel pity for those with such terrible Aspergers', but I already did.
actually without spending an entire week or month, or years for that matter. we will not know if these players are really masturbating to these images or not. For all you know, those are collector sleeves and they just have them because they really enjoyed the series or what have you...
I enjoy studying humans, especially the american human. They are actually very interesting.
Situation would never happen, as I would never, ever, ever put my deck in yaoi sleeves. I'd be embarassed for myself if someone, say, decided to prank me by replacing my deck's sleeves with them, but I'd laugh it off and explain the situation to the people I play.
Frankly, what I'm thinking of doing to combat the situation (not the ero sleeves themselves but the ridiculous bias the people who use them seem to carry) is to have two playmats:
One for all situations, just my normal sun titan mat, nothing fancy.
One is a custom-printed image of a large, hairy Italian man with his shirt off, sitting on a picnic bench, eating a submarine sandwich. I would only ever take it out if my opponent insisted on using erotic sleeves, and only so we'd be on a fair playing field of repulsion.
Is this immature?
Yes. Yes, it is. But it is pretty funny, and I'd love to see someone attempt to explain to a judge why their straight erotic sleeves are okay but the gay playmat isn't.
again, your not really seeing the perspective here. To find enjoyment in any form of art is just that, to find enjoyment. Would I sleeve up my deck if the sleeve art was the Maja Desnuda? hell yea I would. Would people scream bloody murder because my sleeves has a naked women from the the end of the 1700's yea of course. But then again id probably also rock the 1803 The maja Vestida, which is the same art just the women i fully clothed. Non the less. the point here is the taste of art vs. those who dont agree with it. Lolitas or underage girls that older japanese males are into is exactly that, something they are into. Now, there are some pretty "low" life kind of folk out there that cant go near real women, and so they find other outlets of enjoyment. Can we say these outlets are somewhat psychologically dangerous? yes we could, but at the same time, no human out there is with out some outlet that may seem dangerous to another human.
If these sleeves or what have you distract you that much from the game you are playing, then it seems to be something you would have to work on first before attempting a "fight fire with fire" scenario. Just remember, these players arent the players you see on the top of the list. They usually are the bottom rung that play for kicks and giggles.
i think that black cat should have had the Witches ability... The entire deck type seems to be one of those deck types that explodes with Curse of Misfortunes. You are basically trying to build a combo deck with Curse of Misfortunes, but you need moat or solitary confinement to really make it shine.
Ive done rare/foil redraft for Vs., for magic, im not that interested in it. My reason behind this is because ive drafted a lot on MTGO and so no matter what i play to try and win more packs. Overall if your drive isnt to win at a sealed event, then take the "pretty gold cards"... not like running all the golds means youll auto win.
I will however take the rare, if there are no picks for me in the pack.
sigh... I hate it when they forget about your food... its a big brain fart....
I work the counter once in a while and have had to deal with customer b.s.
so I have to ask, for those of you that get berserk when some minuscule thing goes wrong, Why do you do it?
I'm really planning on doing research on this phenomenon... ever notice that every time somebody enters a business establishment their anger goes up and their IQ drops a significant bit? Mostly between the hours of 11am -1pm, then again between 9pm-11pm.
hmm, yes it is pretty bad how guys handle girls when they show up to "their turf" its like being in Pre-K all over again and running from the girl cause she has "cooties"... what ever the hell that is...
Anywho, i know a friend of mine's wife plays with him, mine does not. Though she does support me in playing games and all that, she isnt used to hearing words get used different.
Abuse /Abused... our form of Abuse / Abused is when something is over played.
Broken... our form of broken is when something is played so much it brakes the game.
see these words for us are a bit different for people that arent used to our lingo. My wife always asked me, Why the word abused, broken, etc... and i had to explain it to her. She still doesnt get it, but slowly she is getting sucked into play games with me.
My friends wife, knows the lingo and so forth but ive only ever interacted with her a handful of times...
Im not a big fan of the douche bags that make the atmosphere bad at a fnm, whether they are talking smack on a girl or a homosexual, or what ever. Its just not cool and i dont follow suit.
btw, you arent a bad lookin girl... (had to verify your Youtube to see what you looked like) But looking at you, you kind of portray to me almost like another dude at the shop.
Ever watch Fanboys? the girl in the movie is so typical stereotype comic book girl dude... and the guy she likes doesnt see her as a "woman" but as a LCS dude...
that kind of stuff happens when you are so entwined into something that the guys consider you almost one of the guys, without realizing... she is a girl.
that happens to one of my female friend. MY other guy friend was poking her and messing with her and eventually made her cry... we arent talking about 7-9 year olds. were talking 27-29 year old here. and she started to cry and i was like, Fool dont get so rough, she's down to play but you hit harder, remember she is a girl. and it totally blew his mind that even though she is like one of the dudes she is still a girl...
that sort of stuff happens often... Id tell some of those guys to cut that mess out and just be more friendly.
I just installed Photoshop, and all of a sudden the fonts in Safari are all different (and much smaller). Is there a way to restore things to the way they were?
I'm on a mac running Snow Leopard. Thank you!
hmm photoshop shouldnt have done that...
If you have Time machine just go back to a different time before Photoshop was installed...
Just out of curiosity here, is there anyone who has had a GOOD experience with applebee's? Seems like a lot of negative stories about them. Personally, I have been there several times and it was subpar each time even compared to its peers such as TGI Fridays and Ruby Tuesdays
I hit one up for the first time up in Eureka, and i thought it was great... Our food came out on time and it wasn't bad at all.
though, I wouldn't call one experience an overall rating on the location. Id probably have to go multiple times during different times of the day at the same location to make a full assessment of that particular restaurant.
since each individual restaurant in the franchise (? could not be a franchise), has different attitudes and thoughts, its always best to go to a particular one that gives you the best overall service.
Now if all Applebee's were bad, then yes id say Applebees are bad. lol
didnt care to listen to music when playing in a tournament, though i wouldnt mind.
when i did play online i used to listen to Podcasts or The offspring, what ever i had on itunes at the time...
but yea, at a FNM or what have you, i wouldnt listen to music... its a bit distracting because if you play control you have to be aware of the board and so forth...
in point 2, I'm clearly stating that it is a particular society that has a problem with something. Even then, to generalize that the society you live in looks at things in a particular way and only in this way is cause for concern. The United States is a cornucopia of cultures and ethnic groups.
You stated that as anthropologist you are shocked at my cultural relativist view point. Let me throw you in for a shocker, many anthropologist practice cultural relativism and inclusive use a broad and holistic approach towards their study. I am only doing what I have been thought to do. I never said that I did whole heartily agreed with some specific culture view points. Take Japans justice system capital punishment. Japan is more likely to execute criminals than the American justice system. Doesn't that American hasn't executed criminals, Texas being one of the highest in capital punishment executions. The point I am trying to make is that, we are specifically only talking about American Magic The Gathering players and not Japanese, Mexican, Brazilian, German, French, Spanish etc... Only American players. In the case of American players. we can easily see that there is an outside influence in certain sleeve art and so forth. So no I'm not creating straw hat fallacies, if anything you are taking them to be in this way because there are no set definitions on what society we are talking about. At which point I believe that a better question for your cause would have been, "Why do some American players like to play with sleeves or play mats that many Americans would consider as erotic images?" and even then, because not all Americans will consider "x" image as erotic, it leaves your question still a bit broad.
Overall I dont think you will receive the answer you are looking for unless you state the question in such a way that all terms are defined to mean what you have defined them to mean. Or provide what would be the most common definition of the word, have them stated and defined so that the language in question hinder the answers you are looking for.
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Edit: adding to the topic of my statement "These sleeves are only distracting to those people with a strong belief that nudity is taboo."
you stated that this wasa massive generalization. Well lets take a Holistic approach on the matter:
Sex is Taboo
The following institutions are affected by this:
Justice,
Religion,
Education,
Medicine,
Now lets see how sex is taboo in Religion: Religious folk will tell you that the body is created by a divine being, and hence forth should be covered based on the instructions of a divine personage. Multiple religious passages talk about covering ones nakedness and so forth. This country has a large sum of people that either practice or teach their culture to their young, hence forth the cycle continues.
Justice system - with all the laws on sex we know that many things are very prohibited. However what about sexual acts performed by two consenting adults? At one point does one adult become non consenting? There are many others things to look at in this particular institution of the American society.
Education - Sexual education classes teach that one should practice safe sex, yet at the same time this is thought to young adult about 16 years of age. Prior to this, you often see that the classes are often smutty and less scientific about sex. Words like *****, vulva, or ****** are often things to laugh about. However that's what the member is called. Its not a dick, ****, rod, boner, etc... and the ****** isnt a *****, ham wallet, and so forth. Many members of this society inclusive have a hard time trying to say the word ***** or ******. The King of the Hill episode on sex education is one way of seeing how many people (again not all) feel about sex.
Medicine - This structure is the one structure that does not consider sex taboo however they study the human body as a whole and are there to help many people. However when it comes to sexual member problems it is often this structure of society that helps many of the people that seek help. Pills like Viagra to help the flow of blood to the genital member is and was at one point something to not talk about. I dont know if you remember watching a Viagra or KY Jelly commercial for the first time. It leaves you in a bit of shock sometimes. Sometimes funny and other times just "woah"...
I dont believe that your reasoning behind the sleeves matter too much considering that when you play the game you will always see the art on the cards. However there are times where people do create alters on their cards that you might not like and I can understand a part of your disagreement with it, However as a vorthos it shouldn't stop at just anime characters. How would you feel about alters of Liliana of the Veil wearing a Santa Clause outfit? As a Vorthos, or an a person who really enjoys the printed artwork and the flavor behind the card, I'm sure that the distraction isnt just for erotic images but for any images that change the flavor of the game that you play. Then again, as a Vorthos how do you feel about the game art and flavor?
By the way, you are incorrect that English is my second language. I often consider it at first since i was raised to speak both English and Spanish. Recently I started to learn both Dutch and Japanese. So id have to agree with you, that if you cant understand some of my sentences it could be because of the multiple languages that I am learning.
1: The double standard presented in the community involving these sleeves is ironic, as, in many parts of the MTG world, the same luxury would not be afforded to LGBT players. [I]"You are generalizing that the entire community is MTGS, or the current tournament you are participating in. That isnt the case. If you sat across from me with a play mat of two homosexual men, semi nude caressing each other I wouldnt care one bit. Heck you would probably notice that I wouldnt be playing with a mat in the first place since I try to carry as little as possible at any given event.[/I] So a "double standard" really is based on each individual persons perspective. I wouldnt auto state, that all players dislike homosexuality, but i will state that most Americans have a strong Puritan belief ingrained in them. Doesnt mean they practice a puritan religion, but many of the topics that are okay to talk about have slowly been loosened over time as societies grow. At one point the word "*****" could not be stated on tv. Now a days its common place in most tv dramas.
2: Public eroticism, although not immoral, is not something you have the right to subject the public to, as many find it offensive.[I] "Which public finds it offensive? the American public. I can assure you that not all societies are the same, and hence for this is where you have culture clash. When people from cultures in which this is perfectly fine are drowned by a majority that may not like something. At this point we can see an Ethnocentric viewpoint that one culture is the measuring stick for another cultures way of doing things. What is acceptable in one culture may not be in another. This is not new information. However lets talk about female genital mutilation. The cultures that are for it are the ones that practice it however the ones that are not tend to be the kind that consider sex taboo, or find no practical reason in doing it. Is there a practical reason for Female Circumcision, probably not. Of course to an American that may not understand it, may scream bloody murder, however there are always too sides to every coin. And so let look at this in the perspective that you are receiving the circumcision. One female anthropologist learned that she acquired a feeling of belonging (because many of the women in this society were circumcised [/I]she actually gain something in common with the rest of the women.) Her female bonding increased and so besides what Americans see as Mutilation (which the word it self sounds sinister). These women saw ritualistically a way to bond with all the women in the society. Like wise, when you state the public does not accept it, you are generalizing that every individual that makes the public does not want to see it. If that were the case then people wouldn't be showing it in the first place.
3 (has not been stated repeatedly but is equally valid): These sleeves are distracting, and break suspension of disbelief. ([I]These sleeves are only distracting to those people with a strong belief that nudity is taboo. However lets think about exactly where these images come from. Are they scantly images of Batgirl that bother you? or are they of some anime character named Sakura Haruno? These "anime" sleeves are not actual american now are they. It would seem that many of these anime sleeves are either imported or licensed by an American Distributor. In a game of chess would the opponent playing non standard pieces really break your concentration? would it be so distracting that you blatantly could not play the game? Americans have a strong puritan society, this hard engrained mentality that certain things are more "wrong" than others is common to see. Through then entire topic you've probably seen a parent state, I don't want my 16 year old exposed to that... However, do many of these parents that think this way also think that sex is taboo, or better yet, to talk about sex is taboo. [I will not generalize that all parents are this way, however many are, and so i will not generalize that ALL are this way.][/I] But this is an interesting question to ask the American public. Were not talking about Japanese which we know have public bathhouses and more often than not do not consider sex taboo.
The reason why i posted about them masterbating is because YOU said it. You are making your self seem as if though you know what is right and what is wrong. But at the same time state, "I cant tell people what is right or wrong or else im being a hypocrite."
This mental gymnastic that you are doing in your head is leading no where. You've almost verbatim posted the same thing about how you want to do something "comical" and see how the opponent responds.
In another post you stated
Does being a homosexual male make your opinions on art any more or less important than the next person? This here is showing your attitude as a whole about the entire situation. I asked you to place your self in their shoes, and you said, no never. For a quote "Open minded" individual you sure do show a very closed mentality at points.
Im not here to be condescending to you, or anybody, but Anthropology is in my blood. I enjoy looking at people and what they do and write about how they like to act socially. And at this moment i find it interesting that my position as a cultural relativist, is not letting these "sleeves, mats, or what ever" bother with my enjoyment of a card game.
Id suggest before you pop a blood vessel and get angry again, you rethink what you have been told is "socially" acceptable and what is not. You will find the answer very astonishing.
btw, you may also want to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology
actually without spending an entire week or month, or years for that matter. we will not know if these players are really masturbating to these images or not. For all you know, those are collector sleeves and they just have them because they really enjoyed the series or what have you...
I enjoy studying humans, especially the american human. They are actually very interesting.
again, your not really seeing the perspective here. To find enjoyment in any form of art is just that, to find enjoyment. Would I sleeve up my deck if the sleeve art was the Maja Desnuda? hell yea I would. Would people scream bloody murder because my sleeves has a naked women from the the end of the 1700's yea of course. But then again id probably also rock the 1803 The maja Vestida, which is the same art just the women i fully clothed. Non the less. the point here is the taste of art vs. those who dont agree with it. Lolitas or underage girls that older japanese males are into is exactly that, something they are into. Now, there are some pretty "low" life kind of folk out there that cant go near real women, and so they find other outlets of enjoyment. Can we say these outlets are somewhat psychologically dangerous? yes we could, but at the same time, no human out there is with out some outlet that may seem dangerous to another human.
If these sleeves or what have you distract you that much from the game you are playing, then it seems to be something you would have to work on first before attempting a "fight fire with fire" scenario. Just remember, these players arent the players you see on the top of the list. They usually are the bottom rung that play for kicks and giggles.
I will however take the rare, if there are no picks for me in the pack.
Agree...
sigh... I hate it when they forget about your food... its a big brain fart....
I work the counter once in a while and have had to deal with customer b.s.
so I have to ask, for those of you that get berserk when some minuscule thing goes wrong, Why do you do it?
I'm really planning on doing research on this phenomenon... ever notice that every time somebody enters a business establishment their anger goes up and their IQ drops a significant bit? Mostly between the hours of 11am -1pm, then again between 9pm-11pm.
Anywho, i know a friend of mine's wife plays with him, mine does not. Though she does support me in playing games and all that, she isnt used to hearing words get used different.
Abuse /Abused... our form of Abuse / Abused is when something is over played.
Broken... our form of broken is when something is played so much it brakes the game.
see these words for us are a bit different for people that arent used to our lingo. My wife always asked me, Why the word abused, broken, etc... and i had to explain it to her. She still doesnt get it, but slowly she is getting sucked into play games with me.
My friends wife, knows the lingo and so forth but ive only ever interacted with her a handful of times...
Im not a big fan of the douche bags that make the atmosphere bad at a fnm, whether they are talking smack on a girl or a homosexual, or what ever. Its just not cool and i dont follow suit.
btw, you arent a bad lookin girl... (had to verify your Youtube to see what you looked like) But looking at you, you kind of portray to me almost like another dude at the shop.
Ever watch Fanboys? the girl in the movie is so typical stereotype comic book girl dude... and the guy she likes doesnt see her as a "woman" but as a LCS dude...
that kind of stuff happens when you are so entwined into something that the guys consider you almost one of the guys, without realizing... she is a girl.
that happens to one of my female friend. MY other guy friend was poking her and messing with her and eventually made her cry... we arent talking about 7-9 year olds. were talking 27-29 year old here. and she started to cry and i was like, Fool dont get so rough, she's down to play but you hit harder, remember she is a girl. and it totally blew his mind that even though she is like one of the dudes she is still a girl...
that sort of stuff happens often... Id tell some of those guys to cut that mess out and just be more friendly.
hmm photoshop shouldnt have done that...
If you have Time machine just go back to a different time before Photoshop was installed...
also, is this a legit install?
I hit one up for the first time up in Eureka, and i thought it was great... Our food came out on time and it wasn't bad at all.
though, I wouldn't call one experience an overall rating on the location. Id probably have to go multiple times during different times of the day at the same location to make a full assessment of that particular restaurant.
since each individual restaurant in the franchise (? could not be a franchise), has different attitudes and thoughts, its always best to go to a particular one that gives you the best overall service.
Now if all Applebee's were bad, then yes id say Applebees are bad. lol
when i did play online i used to listen to Podcasts or The offspring, what ever i had on itunes at the time...
but yea, at a FNM or what have you, i wouldnt listen to music... its a bit distracting because if you play control you have to be aware of the board and so forth...