The Jund list should really have like 1 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth. Its mana fixing really helps Raven’s crime do dirty work.
Also kinda surprised you didn’t at least mention Trade Routes in temur. It’s somewhat outclassed by living twister + horizon lands, but it has colorless activation.
You should also probably mention GQ lines. Idunno about you but I definitely find myself targeting my own lands with GQ at least once an event.
Overall though a good start, it gives a good overview on the archetype and explains the core well.
@CrypticCommander I would offer to help if it weren’t for my current list being kinda all over the place and in desperate need of tuning. I do think you should go ahead and write/post the RG primer for now, maybe mention the key cards for other builds for the moment. I especially think this since I imagine most new players will be starting with RG for both budget (if they don’t have all the fetches and whatnot) and clean mana with the new cards.
@Selene I think your assessment of looting is a little off - RGx Loam is generally built with more grave synergies than GWx. This helps break the disadvantage of looting when you can not only discard lands for later but also conflagrate, driven//despair, raven’s crime, or what have you. As for the rest of why you would play red, I personally think Seismic assault is worth it, it’s won me a ton of games by letting me deal >10 damage in one turn. The onslaught lands make me even more sure of this. However, it’s not to say there’s only room for GRx lists.
As for abzan/junk lists, I like what you have so far. Maybe playing another land-destruction land or 2 might help? One of the reasons I like KotR in Loam lists is that it lets you get one part of the ghost quarter lock from your deck. I’d also recommend at least one Urborg to help with the double black costs.
I’m thinking 1 throes in the side as well. I was messing with Risk Factor as something to help give me cards out of the side but this is probably better.
I personally don’t think Loam needs reformation, even RG, since we have cycling lands and WrennSix. WrennSix fills the 2-mana engine slot pretty nicely. However, i’m not against testing out cards in the deck.
Shenanigans seems like decent artifact hate for the side. Dredge 1 is very manageable and lets us use it more times than ancient grudge. I like the option at least.
I’m actually kinda interested in Ruination rioter for my more tempo-focused list. I have no idea how it’ll play out but I like the idea of a 2/2 that we can blow up or block with to do a bunch of damage.
If you don’t go down the snow route you can play 4 stomping ground, 3-4 fire-lit thicket, and you can even use ghost quarter to get basics in a pinch. I think if you did use both enchantments your splash probably shouldn’t have any CC costs for it (like smallpox for instance)
@crypticcommander I hope you have something about Trade Routes somewhere in there.
Anyways other than seeing how Wrenn can fit into the deck, I’m gonna work on a temur list with some snow land shenanigans. The core I have in mind now is
Glacial Revelations, while requiring deckbuilder constraints, has the potential to draw 3-5 lands. For a while I was running Shard Convergence as a way to refill the hand when Loam got surgical’d or exiled, so i’m Interested in trying this.
I haven’t gotten my twisters yet so I haven’t sleeves anything up but I wanna say I used Trade Routes for the longest time since it could combo with assault, letting you pick up any lands you have in play and pitch them. I’ve been able to close out a lot of games with that, and while Twister is more mana-intensive it lets me cut out blue so i’m excited to try it out.
I currently have 2 grim lavamancers in my SB, but i’ll Probably switch them to vortexes. When I played an old version of vortex Loam years ago I found that vortexes were great against fast decks. I still like having my mana opened up after I cast seismic assault, I might try a split of some sort in the main.
I wish there was a good way to recur arboreal grazer in some capacity. If we could play it multiple times it might allow us to feasibly run more utility lands.
One idea I had recently was a RG build with an above-average amount of forests and running Nissa’s Pilgrimage. Maybe when war comes out i’ll Try nissa’s triumph and the origins nissa.
So i’ve Been running a 4 color list and I haven’t had problems casting spells outside of not drawing lands. What has been everyone’s experience with more colors generally?
Part of why I ask is I’m still a big fan of Trade Routes in the deck. while it’s a do-nothing on T2, it lets you fill your hand with lands while Loam is exiled. It’s helped me a lot against decks with RIP.
I was wondering if a 1-of ramunap ruins would be good for the control matchup. If we can keep casting Loam we can keep getting it and using it. Might be better than megaliths in that scenario?
There’s a few cards for the side I want to bring up:
- I really like grafdigger’s cage in the side as like a 3 or 4-of. In our main it hits conflagrate/flame Jab and looting, but against something like dredge or storm it really slows them down or downright stops them.
- I like Heaven//Earth as a board wipe, it’s one of the only ones that can be cast from the grave.
- I haven’t tested this one, but i’m Gonna try shattering spree as artifact hate, since i’m Already playing a ton of red sources.
@Kathal A big mana meta like that almost would make me want to play smallpox. I’ve found prime time decks/etron to be where I like the card the most, since the creature you hit is usually very relevant. I haven’t tried alpine moon though.
As for BBE, in my experience there’s too many chances to hit something weak or momentarily useless, even Loam can be a bad cascade. However, there’s probably room for a list that plays more high-value spells and BBE.
I’ve been thinking of a traverse package as well. I can see something like 1 Gitrog being used to facilitate a combo kill, maybe then Tasigur for value or even Kefnet.
THat’s fair, I guess my opinion’s a little skewed since I have been playing a Hollow one list.
I think there is something to running at least a playset of one of them, though, since worst case it makes your deck 56 cards, kinda turbo xerox style.
I think I want to shift my 4c list to a similar idea. Blue gets you Trade Routes, which I think is pretty underrated here. It and Assault give you a scapeshift-like inevitability combo, since you can pay 1, bounce the land you just tapped, and discard it.
Also as far as edge of autumn goes, Being able to dredge Loam for now mana on a combo turn is really useful, you can deal 12 damage easily turn 4 while assault is out by going Loam->discard->cycle Edge of Autumn->dredge->Loam->discard.
Also kinda surprised you didn’t at least mention Trade Routes in temur. It’s somewhat outclassed by living twister + horizon lands, but it has colorless activation.
You should also probably mention GQ lines. Idunno about you but I definitely find myself targeting my own lands with GQ at least once an event.
Overall though a good start, it gives a good overview on the archetype and explains the core well.
As for abzan/junk lists, I like what you have so far. Maybe playing another land-destruction land or 2 might help? One of the reasons I like KotR in Loam lists is that it lets you get one part of the ghost quarter lock from your deck. I’d also recommend at least one Urborg to help with the double black costs.
I personally don’t think Loam needs reformation, even RG, since we have cycling lands and WrennSix. WrennSix fills the 2-mana engine slot pretty nicely. However, i’m not against testing out cards in the deck.
Shenanigans seems like decent artifact hate for the side. Dredge 1 is very manageable and lets us use it more times than ancient grudge. I like the option at least.
I’m actually kinda interested in Ruination rioter for my more tempo-focused list. I have no idea how it’ll play out but I like the idea of a 2/2 that we can blow up or block with to do a bunch of damage.
Anyways other than seeing how Wrenn can fit into the deck, I’m gonna work on a temur list with some snow land shenanigans. The core I have in mind now is
4x assault
4x Loam
4X looting
2x Trade Routes
4x Ice-Fang Coatl
3x Glacially Revelations
4x Skred
(25 cards)
Glacial Revelations, while requiring deckbuilder constraints, has the potential to draw 3-5 lands. For a while I was running Shard Convergence as a way to refill the hand when Loam got surgical’d or exiled, so i’m Interested in trying this.
I wish there was a good way to recur arboreal grazer in some capacity. If we could play it multiple times it might allow us to feasibly run more utility lands.
One idea I had recently was a RG build with an above-average amount of forests and running Nissa’s Pilgrimage. Maybe when war comes out i’ll Try nissa’s triumph and the origins nissa.
which is a good thing. I'm more inclined to play RG BBE Loam now
Part of why I ask is I’m still a big fan of Trade Routes in the deck. while it’s a do-nothing on T2, it lets you fill your hand with lands while Loam is exiled. It’s helped me a lot against decks with RIP.
There’s a few cards for the side I want to bring up:
- I really like grafdigger’s cage in the side as like a 3 or 4-of. In our main it hits conflagrate/flame Jab and looting, but against something like dredge or storm it really slows them down or downright stops them.
- I like Heaven//Earth as a board wipe, it’s one of the only ones that can be cast from the grave.
- I haven’t tested this one, but i’m Gonna try shattering spree as artifact hate, since i’m Already playing a ton of red sources.
As for BBE, in my experience there’s too many chances to hit something weak or momentarily useless, even Loam can be a bad cascade. However, there’s probably room for a list that plays more high-value spells and BBE.
I’ve been thinking of a traverse package as well. I can see something like 1 Gitrog being used to facilitate a combo kill, maybe then Tasigur for value or even Kefnet.
I think there is something to running at least a playset of one of them, though, since worst case it makes your deck 56 cards, kinda turbo xerox style.
Also as far as edge of autumn goes, Being able to dredge Loam for now mana on a combo turn is really useful, you can deal 12 damage easily turn 4 while assault is out by going Loam->discard->cycle Edge of Autumn->dredge->Loam->discard.