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  • posted a message on Commander legends Leak...the Precon decks and the 3 new cards and 2 reprints in each
    Yup, both pretty boring. Wyleth at least is a nice option for Voltron shenanigans for the color combo but as mentioned above he would be much more exciting if we literally didn't just get Akiri.
    As for the other cards... the Kraken is a nice tool for Landfall decks and the White aura will be Sram's BFF but other than that they are also pretty lukewarm.

    I don't mind WotC toning down the power level of Commander precons - I don't want every Commander related product to be packed with Fierce Guardianships - but those are just... meh. Hopefully the reprints will make up for it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Commander Legends Maro Teaser
    Quote from 5ColorsEDH »
    There was a leak of a Grixis legendary with the ability: End the Turn.
    Yup, but that hint can't be alluding to that one though, that legend has way more than 4 words of rules text and the Time Stop reminder text for "ending the turn" falls short with only 37 words total.

    It could also be something akin to Maelstrom Wanderer, since Cascade reminder text is actually pretty lenghty, but that would feel wrong because... well, Maelstrom Wanderer already exists, and there's not much design space in 4 words with one of them being "Cascade".
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Commander Legends Maro Teaser
    • A creature with four words of rules text and fifty-two words of reminder text
    Oooh, now that sounds exciting. Seems we'll be doing with "end the turn" and "you control target opponent" levels of shenanigans here. And it's likely to be a static ability too - not sure if MaRo would pull a "well technically mana costs aren't text" on us but at the very least it's impossible for it to be an ETB/Dies effect.
    If I had to guess, this could be "All players share graveyards". Would be a reasonable static effect for a creature, lots of zany Commander applications and would require a LOT of reminder text to explain the nuances of the effect.


    • “You and permanents you control have protection from Salamanders”
    So it's finally time for Amphins to be a thing? Either that or it's a reference to Paracelsus' Four Elemental Spirits. Either way, sounds cool.


    • Legendary Creature – Rabbit Wizard
    Interesting. Currently we have no planes with anthropomorphic rabbits (well, technically Kamigawa but those aren't typed as "Rabbits"), so I'd guess this is either a plant for future sets or some Eldraine wizard that got afflicted by some witch's curse.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret lair - New life 2020 (no unique cards here all reprints)
    Real missed opportunity to not have Tamiyo with her kids in one of the cards. Other than that, solid drop for a great cause.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Upcoming Kaldheim miniatures
    It would be weird to get two sets of overlapping mono-gods in Standard, so wouldn't be surprised to get 2c gods in Kaldheim. Speaking of, Alrund is totally Odin, while Reidane seems to be some hybrid goddess. Her visual motif seems to evoke the Valkyries, which in turn are closely related to Freyja, but her title comes from Tyr and in her belt I think I can see a blue horn thing which could be a Gjallarhorn stand-in.

    The Shapeshifters are the most curious of the bunch imo. Their wings, staff and masks seem to have a heavy raven motif, which in Norse myths are symbols of Odin, but on the other hand shapeshifting has always been something associated with Loki. I doubt they'd combine Odin and Loki in a single god, so no idea what's the deal here.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Six commander legends hints from gavin
    You control your opponents during each of their upkeeps would be a boring incarnation.
    Can't be that one cuz controlling an opponent means you can tap all their lands and let the unspent mana go away. If you control their upkeep, you lock them out of playing anything Sorcery speed.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Six commander legends hints from gavin
    Clue #3 seems interesting. What kind of drawback could balance a Worst Fears for all opponents and in a permanent's Continuous effect? My first thought would be something like Underworld Breach, aka. a permanent with a spell-like effect that sacs itself after a while, but maybe it's something super narrow, like "You control your opponents while X is being targeted by a spell" or something.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from Ernart »
    First of all your quoting me from my response in somebody else? That clarifying the it didn't exist of comment of someone else.
    Because you're wrong. You talking bull to another person doesn't changes the fact you're talking bull.

    Quote from Ernart »
    And all I have asked you is for a link. You start saying this is a game and starts creating rules and demanding me not to quote maro.
    Because you took my statement, demanded proof, then painted it as "FALSE". Your arguments for doing so are flimsy and erroneous, using sources that were used by multiple people to prove that you're wrong, and using selective arguments to misrepresent MaRo's opinions on the discussed matter. Therefore, I contested your "FALSE" statement with a simple alternative, and you still haven't delivered.

    Quote from Ernart »
    all I do was defending Japanese mythology at the beginning of the argument.
    No, you didn't. What you did was launch an unfounded counterargument over me pointing out (with proof) on the fact MaRo has denied that flavor wasn't an issue. Said argument I made was based on the conception that "It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa. It was most of the printed cards being played was underwhelming and boring after mirrodin and before ravnica". This is NOT "defending Japanese mythology", because Japanese mythology was never attacked by anyone. This is a lie based on the information MaRo has presented over the reasons Kamigawa has failed: Kamigawa did not fail because of Japanese mythology. Kamigawa failed because, along with other issues, it did Japanese mythology wrong. Your initial argument can't be true because you didn't specified Japanese mythology, you specified KAMIGAWA and its AESTHETIC and ATMOSPHERE. You are mixing up the facts and trying to move the goalposts to attest the former while everyone else is telling you that the latter is true.



    I will not answer you any further. I do not know what your first language is, but it has been made pretty clear that your understanding of the English language is extremely weak and faulty. Learn to speak English properly before coming into an online forum and accusing other people's arguments of being false.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from Ernart »
    I didn't need to bold the whole article to begin with.

    No one claimed it didn't exist, What I claimed was the snippets of the guy was part of the article that supported my claims. So I posted the whole article instead which clearly said it was the mechanics. That the mechanics is also the cause for the Kamigawa Set to be one of unpopular set and not for it being based on a Japanese Myth.

    SO basically bolding the other text or whole article is non-sense and the best way is to post everything for clarity, it's better than cherrypicking fragments of that article.
    Except that was not your argument, AT ALL, you're moving the goalposts. It's as if you started this conversation stating that "the sky is blue because there's an ocean in the sky", and now that you've been proven wrong, you're acting as if people are trying to prove you wrong on the "the sky is blue" part of the statement.
    And second, no, emphasizing a part of a quote via bold text while ignoring the rest is not any different from quoting specific parts of a larger argument. Both have the exact same purpose and both are equally legitimate forms of information as long as you provide your sources. The difference is that latter is not plagiarism nor an eyesore to read.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from soramaro »
    Holy mother of unneccesary arguments. If you actually read the Maro quotes without being bent on "winning" an argument, it's stupidly clear that while the aesthetic/flavor wasn't the ONE problem that caused Kamigawa to perform badly, it was one of several factors that lead to the set's bad overall performance.
    And if you read the discussion thread carefully, you'll see no one claimed otherwise. The issue, however, is disregarding the failings of flavor and put the blame solely on card design or bad timing, which is wrong, based on the most legitimate source we have, that being Mark Rosewater. Therefore, tweaking the flavor and aesthetics of Kamigawa for a "return set" is justifiable, at least based on WotC's market research.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from Ernart »
    I don't care about your childish non-sense game or whatsoever. because it's logical fallay an "Ad Ignorantiam"
    My point is it was the mechanics that failed Kamigawa not the it being Japanese myth. plain and simple and every "sources you post supported my claims. which was also back up by multiple Kamigawa discussion and all you got is out of context and misquoting a single article that supported my claim also. lol
    First off, fallacy fallacy. Ad ignorantiam is not used to disprove a claim under ignorance but create one, it's made to make a unverifiable claim under the pretense we don't know X therefore Y must be true. YOU made the bold statement "FALSE!" as a counterargument, and therefore burden of proof falls under you now and said argument can be disproven by lack of proof at any time.

    Second, moving the goalposts. Your initial argument was NOT "failed Kamigawa not the it being Japanese myth", whatever that poor imitation of English even means. The goalpost was pretty clear from the first post - "It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa.", disproven by my source as MaRo did mention that the aesthetic and atmosphere DID fail Kamigawa and backed up by another user with several more claims.

    Third, once again, no misquotes happened, unless you can prove otherwise, in which case we're back into my game. Your crying over my "out of context" claims are pathetic as you analyze YOUR claims that bold three words to make an "argument" or use bold text to completely misrepresent the person saying the quote, and that kind of shady trash is why I made the simple argument: prove it, with your own words, using ONE quote and nothing else. Once again, a counterargument is still an argument, and if you can't substantiate it with the proof estabilished by my rules you lose.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from Ernart »
    It's terrible basically those were just taken out of context and misquoting a single article because in complete detail it prove my claims to be true which is also supported by other discussion in the same topic in tumblr. So you lose.
    Wrong. Because we aren't playing your game. I already did, I provided a source which confirmed what I said. The rest of the context is irrelevant because it's neither relevant to what you asked in the first reply to me nor relevant to my own argument.
    Now it's your turn to play my game, and I laid the simple game rules and you can't follow them. I asked ONE singular source, saying in black and white that a flavor wasn't a factor. You didn't provided any, therefore you lose.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    You can't even follow ONE single demand, and yet you still cry about quotations that are easily verifiable. Whatever.

    Quote from Ernart »


    Creative Identity: Average

    Kamigawa was very faithful to its source material, but played around in a lot of spaces that weren't very resonant for the majority of the audience, making the set feel more "weird" than focused. It definitely has a distinctive look, but not one that scored well in the market research. Again, through the lens of time and the Commander format, it has built up some new fans.

    As I've explained numerous times on social media, this return is a tough sell for me to make internally based on how disastrous the first visit went. The biggest factor that a return hinges on is how much are we allowed to change and still call it Kamigawa. The set has minimal mechanical space we want to return to and many creative choices we would do differently if we started over with the source material. I wouldn't count out the chance of a return, but it's not a big one.

    Source specifically cites in the bolded parts that the creative and flavorful aspects were NOT well received. Therefore, while "your" source does proves that MaRo thought Design was A issue in the full quote, it wasn't the ONLY issue in the quotes mentioned above. Therefore, WRONG.


    The set mechanically was very parasitic (it required too much playing with itself) and the setting, while authentic, was not recognizable enough by most players. It rated very low in market research on mechanics and world.
    Setting and world cited specifically as failings that didn't resonate with players in market research. Therefore, WRONG.

    We test both the mechanics and creative elements for sets. Kamigawa did poorly on it’s mechanics. It did even worse on its world (I believe it holds the record for the worst results for any world since we did market research on them - Ulgrotha predates the market research). The idea that it was successful creative married to bad mechanics is false. At the time, both were strongly disliked.
    Not only MaRo flat-out states that the creative and flavor aspects of Kamigawa were poorly received, but he specifically does so citing not only as one of the WORST worlds but also debunking a statement not unlike yours from Tumblr user "per-mariam-ad-jesum". Therefore, WRONG.

    We tested the creative as well as the cards and the world (once again, not just the cards) didn’t test well. It didn’t quite jell with a majority of the players.

    The reason I think there are people who are huge fans of Kamigawa is that there are elements that are very cool. The source material has tons of fans so it seems to reason that players would like those elements they see reflected in the game.

    Tamiyo, by the way, has a very split reaction. She tends to be polarizing. Those that like her really like her but those that don’t really don’t. Now I think Magic should have polarizing things so I’m a huge fan of Tamiyo. Worlds, though, are not the things that are supposed to be polarizing. We want as many players as possible to love our worlds.
    Once again, MaRo states that both card design and world design were failures according to market research done by WotC, and specifically states that while the source of Japanese myths and culture are solid and well-loved, the execution in Kamigawa was poor and divisive, which is the exact argument being made by me. This post barely even mentions the failings of card design either, so you don't get even that going for you and therefore WRONG.
    Four citations, not one proving your point about Card Design being the only failing of Kamigawa. Try again.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from Ernart »
    Quote from Ritokure »

    So, here you go: Give me ONE quote from Mark Rosewater stating that Kamigawa's flavor was NOT a contributing factor to its failings. DO NOT quote him saying that Card Design was a factor, quote him saying that Card Design was the ONLY factor.

    LOL your demands are entire ridiculous. That's kinda "Ad Ignorantiam"

    WHY?
    Because YOU asked me to give any source to my claims that Kamigawa's worldbuilding and flavor was considered a failure by MaRo, and I did. Your argument is that Design failed it while also disregarding the failings of the setting's flavor. Therefore, either acknowledge the failings of the "plane's aesthetic or atmosphere" according to the provided MaRo quotes or give me proof of the contrary. Not that hard to understand, and it's literally the only demand I made while complying with yours.

    And as I said ONE quote, not multiple, because your reading comprehension is too awful for me to debunk multiple arguments in one post and your scattershot, unfocused arguments of citing other games that have nothing to do with MtG or literally making stuff up about me regarding Japanese themes as a failure is getting boring. Either way, I'll accept your failure to comply to my demands as admittance you're wrong.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Potential upcoming set leaked for 2022
    Quote from Ernart »
    This was the complete post which makes it right and backup by the sources

    It's the design that failed it.
    OK, so this is going nowhere and I'm just wasting my time. Your English is poor and a headache to understand, your reading comprehension is even worse and you're so deep into your false dilemma fallacy that it's pointless to continue further. If we continue this i'll be posting multiple complete analysis by MaRo himself on all the angles Kamigawa failed, you'll see the words "Design: Weak" and disregard every other point while proclaiming yourself the all-knowing game designer, I'll rebuke your stupid claims providing more sources and we'll be repeating this all week while further derailing this thread.

    So, here you go: Give me ONE quote from Mark Rosewater stating that Kamigawa's flavor was NOT a contributing factor to its failings. DO NOT quote him saying that Card Design was a factor, quote him saying that Card Design was the ONLY factor.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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