Cage and witchbane sometimes are dead cards.
Assassins trophy is good, resolves all problems that discards missed.
Surgical is versatile. Exile, see hand, shuffle deck.
Mana greedy version, but rarely is a problem.
By the time they get to 10 lands we should be able to mill any ulamogs off the top or thoughtseize them out of their hand. With Pithing Needle to cover Karn/Ugin. The real issue is World Breaker being recurred.
It's a lot of threats to mill/discard/needle, and if he manage to get one chromatic sphere he can get ulamog without giving us a way to respond.
Tron has 12 cards that "goes" to ulamog:
1 sanctum ugin
4 sylvan scrying
4 expedition map
3 ulamog
So tested a bunch last night and tonight against Gx Tron, KCI, Jund, Hollow One, Amulet Titan, and RG Eldrazi. Damping Sphere is absolutely awesome. I'm currently running one main, one in the side. It's best against Gx Tron, of course. We only played two games there, both preboard. Naturally drew Sphere, won easily, second game Whir'd for Sphere the turn before my friend could cast Karn (his turn four).
How was your strategy to win the game? did you milled the lands or threats?
Even though the sphere slow his game one moment he will have 10 lands to cast Ulamog.
No card can help us against a world breaker turn 3 and Ulamog on 4, if this happen just shake his hand. I have a friend who plays with tron on our store and I never saw he doing this.
I agree that ward is more a late game card and may not help in some situations. My hole point here is: Tezzeret may not help as well and can't be tutorable.
Well I am not advocating Tezzeret as a sideboard card
In fact I've been pushing Phyrexian Revoker if you care to take notice.
I agree he is good, but we need more to fight tron
We are looking here for options against tron, so far the card that has been chosen to fight this matchup was Tezzeret. We can't tutor Tezzeret and if we get lucky seeing it on the game we may need a few turns to have 10 artifacts in game.
Ward of the bones is tutorable and make the tron player unable to play Ulamog/worldbraker, usually we can fight the rest of the deck with ours needle/mill rocks.
a good Tron draw can play World Breaker on turn 3, and an Ulamog on turn 4.
No card can help us against a world breaker turn 3 and Ulamog on 4, if this happen just shake his hand. I have a friend who plays with tron on our store and I never saw he doing this.
I agree that ward is more a late game card and may not help in some situations. My hole point here is: Tezzeret may not help as well and can't be tutorable.
The problem is, we may not find academy ruins or the other cards. I think that our best option is to use something that can be tutorable with whir, so we can use just one sideboard spot for it and put two/three more needles on our side to be able to have some chance against tron.
ward of bones is awesome, I want to try out ward as a one of. It might help the tron matchup and other matchups as well, everything with good etb creatures. One could consider forbidden orchard to lock out the first creature as well.
Ward of Bones costs too much mana. If you want to Whir for it, you need 9 mana/artifacts to tutor it, or you need to be on turn 5/6 with at least a land every single turn and/or a mox opal.
We are looking here for options against tron, so far the card that has been chosen to fight this matchup was Tezzeret. We can't tutor Tezzeret and if we get lucky seeing it on the game we may need a few turns to have 10 artifacts in game.
Ward of the bones is tutorable and make the tron player unable to play Ulamog/worldbraker, usually we can fight the rest of the deck with ours needle/mill rocks.
With Ward of Bones in play they can't cast ulamog and worldbreaker if they have a wurmcoil, also they would have to be short on land.
With Timesifter and a few mill cards you could play several extra turns and never let him play again until you find a finisher.
What about trying to win the game before we lose against tron? I was searching some silver bullets artifacts that we can tutor with whir and found Keening Stone. We probably would win with two~three activation.
I've made a sideboard list against the most common decks.
My deck list has 14 sideboard cards, I think I'm going to use another pyroclasm, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea.
What you guys think about this sideboard plan and which card would be the most useful to finish my sideboard?
... have a T1 enabler that always throw 2 or more dedge cards on the grave so inquiry can be always better than Tormenting Voice....
Do you know that when you play burning inquiry you can dredge the second and third draw using the cards that you just dredged in the first draw? So, you don't need 2~3 dredgers on your yard when you play burning inquiry, you just need one dredger and a good amount of dredgers on your deck.
I made 10x0 in a pptq using 14 dredgers and 13 enablers (loothing, neonate, 2 inquiry and 3 shriekhorn). I'm not saying inquiry is the best possible card, but I can say that it is not as bad as you guys are saying. It has pro and cons comparing to tormenting voice.
Sometimes, people just bash the card without testing it, this was me when I first saw shriekhorn, but after using it I saw how interesting the card can be on this deck.
For me burning inquiry is like, "win target game if you have at lest one dredge 5~6 on your yard and if you aren't unlucky". That is why I have two on my list. Tormenting voice is more consistence, but it is also way slower because you lose the bloodghast trigger.
I realized that I have nearly everything I need for lantern while I was going through some of my cards the other day. However, my friend is currently borrowing my copies of Glimmervoid. Is there a replacement I can run until I get them back? Gemstone Mine? City of Brass? Mana Confluence? Tendo Ice Bridge? Some mix of the 4, or something else I am not thinking of?
Thanks in advanace!!
Lantern is weak on this meta (too many fast agro decks), I wouldn't suggest building it with replacement cards
The problem with tormenting voice is that you loose the Bloodghast trigger on turn two.
One of the best plays of burning inquiry is having a dredger in your graveyard on turn 2, playing a fetch land, playing burning inquiry to mill ~25% of you deck and using the fetch land to trigger the bloodghasts. It's basically game over when you can pull that, and it's not that hard to happen because we have neonate, loothing and shriekhorn to enable the dredge on turn two.
3 Botanical Sanctum
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Blooming Marsh
4 Glimmervoid
1 River of Tears
4 Spire of Industry
1 Academy Ruins
1 Island
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Codex Shredder
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
2 Thoughtseize
4 Whir of Invention
3 Assassin's Trophy
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ashiok, Dream Render
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Nature's Claim
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Welding Jar
1 Damping Sphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pyroclasm
Cage and witchbane sometimes are dead cards.
Assassins trophy is good, resolves all problems that discards missed.
Surgical is versatile. Exile, see hand, shuffle deck.
Mana greedy version, but rarely is a problem.
It's a lot of threats to mill/discard/needle, and if he manage to get one chromatic sphere he can get ulamog without giving us a way to respond.
Tron has 12 cards that "goes" to ulamog:
1 sanctum ugin
4 sylvan scrying
4 expedition map
3 ulamog
How was your strategy to win the game? did you milled the lands or threats?
Even though the sphere slow his game one moment he will have 10 lands to cast Ulamog.
I agree he is good, but we need more to fight tron
No card can help us against a world breaker turn 3 and Ulamog on 4, if this happen just shake his hand. I have a friend who plays with tron on our store and I never saw he doing this.
I agree that ward is more a late game card and may not help in some situations. My hole point here is: Tezzeret may not help as well and can't be tutorable.
The problem is, we may not find academy ruins or the other cards. I think that our best option is to use something that can be tutorable with whir, so we can use just one sideboard spot for it and put two/three more needles on our side to be able to have some chance against tron.
We are looking here for options against tron, so far the card that has been chosen to fight this matchup was Tezzeret. We can't tutor Tezzeret and if we get lucky seeing it on the game we may need a few turns to have 10 artifacts in game.
Ward of the bones is tutorable and make the tron player unable to play Ulamog/worldbraker, usually we can fight the rest of the deck with ours needle/mill rocks.
With Timesifter and a few mill cards you could play several extra turns and never let him play again until you find a finisher.
My deck list has 14 sideboard cards, I think I'm going to use another pyroclasm, but I'm not sure if that is a good idea.
What you guys think about this sideboard plan and which card would be the most useful to finish my sideboard?
2x Academy Ruins
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Botanical Sanctum
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Swamp
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Glimmervoid
2x Inventors' Fair
4x Mox Opal
Utility (14)
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Ancient Stirrings
2x Collective Brutality
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
3x Glint-Nest Crane
1x Spellskite
Artifacts (20)
4x Codex Shredder
4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Ghoulcaller's Bell
4x Lantern of Insight
3x Pithing Needle
1x Pyxis of Pandemonium
1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Welding Jar
1x Pithing Needle
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Spellskite
1x Thoughtseize
1x Pyroclasm
Against which decks Collective Brutality is a bad card and you have to side out?
Tron, bant eldrazi and dredge?
Do you know that when you play burning inquiry you can dredge the second and third draw using the cards that you just dredged in the first draw? So, you don't need 2~3 dredgers on your yard when you play burning inquiry, you just need one dredger and a good amount of dredgers on your deck.
I made 10x0 in a pptq using 14 dredgers and 13 enablers (loothing, neonate, 2 inquiry and 3 shriekhorn). I'm not saying inquiry is the best possible card, but I can say that it is not as bad as you guys are saying. It has pro and cons comparing to tormenting voice.
Sometimes, people just bash the card without testing it, this was me when I first saw shriekhorn, but after using it I saw how interesting the card can be on this deck.
For me burning inquiry is like, "win target game if you have at lest one dredge 5~6 on your yard and if you aren't unlucky". That is why I have two on my list. Tormenting voice is more consistence, but it is also way slower because you lose the bloodghast trigger.
Lantern is weak on this meta (too many fast agro decks), I wouldn't suggest building it with replacement cards
One of the best plays of burning inquiry is having a dredger in your graveyard on turn 2, playing a fetch land, playing burning inquiry to mill ~25% of you deck and using the fetch land to trigger the bloodghasts. It's basically game over when you can pull that, and it's not that hard to happen because we have neonate, loothing and shriekhorn to enable the dredge on turn two.