Is Tron Walkers a thing? I'm very much interested in it. Maybe if we cut some of the walkers and just added the oath of nissa for Nicolas or the 7 mana Garruk?
No it's not. At least the few decks I've seens looks really bad compare to normal tron.
Oath of Nissa is a good card, but who cares about the PL ability, it's a fetch more than anything: you don't want to end with a not-playable card in your hand, so at the very maximum, you can tolerate a PL with two colors, and one of them is green or red so it's not too difficult to cast without Oath.
Then:
- Garruk 7cmc:
Almost all capacities are available with Karn/Ugin, and not easy to output compare to them.
- Garruk 6cmc:
Looks quite useless for this deck
- Garruk 5cmc:
The best one available I think, still the 3 green needed is really difficult to achieve without oath. The 3/3 is cool for this cmc, but the draw engine is clearly a win more condition...
And a 5cmc PL vs a 7cmc PL for this deck does not really make a difference.
I would say for now it's still the best PL I've tryied, but still far behind Karn and Ugin...
- Garruk 4cmc:
I'm trying this to survive after a problem with the tron lands, but I'm not sure it will be such a good plan...
- Nicol Bolas
You want the -2 when it arrives, the -2 will give you a tapped creature (almost certainly), and the PL will be in the dead zone...
Also, without Oath it's completely dead, and it's not fetchable with Stirrings.
Go for Karn or Ugin you need more monster, they are much much much better than him for every possible jobs...
And there is a huge competitor in the same range/effect: world breaker, the cast effect prevent from counter, it blocks and survives itself, there is a good chance it's a much better choice than Nicol Bolas...
I've seen Ajani, Nahiri also, same, they are difficult to play, they will likely arrives without any creatures on play, naked, which is difficult to maintain alive with a low loyalty counter like this...
Nissa's and other for all of them are probably out of scope for this deck, too difficult to cast, not able to survive on their own, whatever...
If you want to really try, stick to PL that have the right color -which are castable without any help from Oath-. You really want to be able to play them without Oath if needed.
Long story short: karn and ugin looks way better, they are beast on their own while most other PL needs helps, or cannot be played without Oath.
And as Oath is not fetchable in current build, you really want them to be playable without this card.
Oh Seems like you've done the research. To bad I was looking to try something different with Tron.
Is Tron Walkers a thing? I'm very much interested in it. Maybe if we cut some of the walkers and just added the oath of nissa for Nicolas or the 7 mana Garruk?
can someone explain to me why we want to put Sigarda in the deck? If you Wish for it game 1 they still have their board wipes and control is usually a good match up anyway, furthermore it can still be countered so if you're waiting for them to tap out to play her why not just combo win when they tap out?
She's not there for control, but well for Grixis/Abzan/Jund that most of the time lose on the spot if she resolves. I wouldn't play her or wish for her against control decks for all the reasons you mentioned
Hi all, I had the possibility to play with this deck yesterday at my LGS and I have to admit that I really like the way it plays!
I do have one question though: my friend just copied a list that he found online, and the SB apparently included Dragonlord Dromoka. What's that all about? It seems hilariously clunky... would be thankful for an explanation.
She is great against UR decks, because you can resolve her through counter magic and they don't have any realistic way to get rid of her (triple bolt and cryptic command to bounce her), she can race the game on her own in your favor, and can simply just force your combo on the following turn. Now that Twin is gone, she'd only be great against Delver decks in the new metagame. G2, she works against a wider range of control decks if they indeed sided out all their removals, but I've been hit by random Gideon Jura and Detention Sphere more often than not.
What does the labman win look like with wish/light? Are you wish/lighting it out of your deck and ag/an-ing your deck into your hand the next turn? Or are you casting it main phase and then going off? That sounds extremely mana intensive.
You can also just play the LabMan main deck, and win with Storm or Labman depending on the situation. 2-3% of Games 1 I play online result in a board state where lightning storm wouldn't make it. It might not sound like a big deal, but in the end, in a BtL list, you're losing equity if you don't play the LabMan/Storm split, plain and simple. With Spoils, you might prefer playing 2 Lightning Storm just in case you exile one while trying to win at instant speed, but that's another story.
Is there any difference when choosing which fog effect to play with, eg. Darkness, Holy Day or Ethereal Haze? I guess the Arcane on Haze could be relevevant if you're playing a Desperate Ritual.
Haze is strictly better than Holy Day because it prevents all damage from creatures, and not only combat damage. So it works against Eidolon's triggers, Borborygmos Enraged tossing lands at you, Grim Lavamancer trying to ping your Laboratory Maniac... It hardly make a big difference, but it's strictly better nonetheless.
Darkness is just a black holy day. If your manabase better supports black spells early in the game (as in most Spoils/Classic list), you might want to consider it. If you have more early white sources (as in BtL/Wish lists), you should definitely play Haze.
Just start testing this deck as it looks fun and I don't like playing a t1 deck so I dropped tron. Matchups have been fun or miserable. I have trouble sideboarding with your list for example whatd you put in for the leyline vs a control brew with discard?
Hey pbj you have a very well built main deck. Sideboard looks good too but I want to ask what is with the lonely ghost quarter? Imho I would remove that since you already have 2x in main and 1+ rending volley just to feel safe. I heard from people that they like thragtusk or they hate it... I would put feed the clan in replace of it but if you feel that card made a major impact in your game by all means leave it in! Let me know how crucible is ... I feel that life from the loam is better because crucible is easier to get rid of but can easily be tutored from ancient stirrings so it's all based on personal preference. I see some people have both.
So far I have liked Thragtusk. I haven't tried feed the clan but I can test it out to see how I like it but I feel that it may not be enough. Or if you rely on it and then they Skullcrack you. GQ just for the mirror amulet tron.
So I went back and it seems like Ulamog is a solid card. I haven't tried GW tron but am thinking about taking it. I have no idea what the meta will be like.
So this is my current deck. I have an RPTQ coming up in a week and would like any tips. Also if anyone has a SB guide that would be helpful for me. I know against some decks but not 100%. I've toyed with boil and choke in the board but am testing this out. Also I have put life from the loam in replace of crucible of worlds in but haven't gotten to use it yet. Wish me luck!
Sorry I'm on my phone and don't know how to do multiple quotes.
@lordseth I live like 3 hours from Chicago so I think most people went there
@figurative the top 8 was merfolk, Jund(normal), Jund brew, BW tokens, 2 GR tron, Storm and Burn. Didn't see any twin mainly creature decks not much combo either then the storm player and bloom player
As far as sideboard boil is a card I would highly recommend and natures claims I would really like more relics .
@praisethekappa
Well I prefer boil because the lands are gone and you can cast it at instant speed on there turn and then usually set them back far enough or get a counter out of there hand. Not to mention choke does get hit by ugin like Atlas said but I've also had a twin player bounce it with command and then cast pester mite and twin because they still have the lands.
Also I typically wouldn't bring it in against grixis as they don't have that many blue sources.
So I just played in a 22 player PPTQ and originally I had Defense Grid in the board in place of Dragon's Claw but felt like the aggro/burn match up needed more help. I have tested with Ulamog and if the store I went to had it I would have included him in place of something else. I felt like I ran pretty hot but also don't felt like I had very many misplays always.
Round 1 vs Storm
He seems very nervous piloting the deck and later tells me its his first time. His slow play eventually lands us on dice with me tapping out while I have Relic of Progenitus in play to cast Wurmcoil Engine not leaving open the ability exile both gy. He had to have his last card in hand to be Past in Flames and it was so I lost when we could have drawn.
1-2
Round 2 vs Grixis Delver
Game 1 He stomps me with Young Pyromancer on 2 and counter backup for everything I cast. Game 2 his Delver of Secrets failed to flip for 6 consecutive turns while I mull'd to 5 and eventually hard cast an Emrakul. Game 3 he keeps a greedy hand and I cast tron and go crazy.
2-1
Round 3 vs GR Beats?
Not sure what he's playing but he kept a no lander with Goblin Guide on a mull to 5. I get turn 3 tron with Karn Liberated followed up with Pyroclasm After taking his one land. Game 2 he keeps another risky hand and I get an early tron into Wurmcoil and Ugin.
2-0
Round 4 vs Jund
He knew what I was playing so his opening hand was GQ into GQ into Fulminator Mage but I still eventually won. Game 2 I didn't have much sideboard besides LftL and won both games pretty easily not much to be said.
2-0
Round 5 vs Amulet Bloom
I got paired down so my opponent had to play incase he won. Game 1 I win by getting an early tron and aggressively GQ his lands. Game 2 goes to time and he wins on die roll. Seeing that he can't make top 8 and I make it win or draw he concedes to give me a higher seed.
Top 8
Quarter-Finals vs Jund (same guy from before)
Both games go pretty much the same besides game 2 I get down to 2 life and am dead he if has a bolt but he doesn't and am able to swing with Wurmcoil and then cast another one to put it away.
2-0
Semi-Finals vs Storm (same guy too)
Can't remember what happens besides last game I kept a 1 lander with just relic which he attempted to go for it but had to shoot my karn and hit me for 5 with grapeshot. I brought in Dragon's Claw but it got me to 39 then he cast Grapeshot for 19 storm then another one for 20 storm.
2-1
Finals vs Jund
This isn't your typical Jund as he said he didn't have any Fulminator Mages after the match. He had typical Bob Tarmogoyf but also had Grim Lavamancer and discard. Game 1 I stall long enough to hardcast Emrakul. Game 2 He keeps a risky 1 lander with 2 discard spells. My hand was Minex2 Tower Wurmcoil Stirrings Map Karn. He takes map and I draw another off the top and he misses his land drops while I get tron on line and cast Wurmcoil into Karn and he scoops.
2-0
So I WON!!!!
But it's pretty late and I just got home. I haven't actually won a tournament before but I've top 8'd some PPTQs and IQs but never won so this was a great feeling. Anyone has any questions just ask!
I got a PPTQ in a couple of hours and I can't decide on my SB. Looking for any help. I have 1 Spellskite in the main and I'm gonna try to get another one for the maindeck. My current SB options are:
4 Rending Volley
2 Choke
2 Boil
4 Feed the Clan
2 Thragtusk
2 Torpor Orb
2 Defense Grid
1 Life from the Loam
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ancient Grudge
I feel like 4 Claims and 4 Volley are a must. That leaves me with 7 I really love Defense Grid so I don't have to worry about a counter or they spend there counter on the grid but Choke has been bad as in the game has gone long enough they were able to bounce the choke. I love boil because its instant so I can cast it on there end step and if they counter it great I can usually cast a bomb on my turn. Life I haven't really drawn yet in any of my match ups I have wanted it. Torpor Orb is awesome. I feel like Burn/Infect/Twin are our worst matchups so So combination of cards to beat them. Any thoughts?
Took the deck to my local FNM Heres a brief recap.
I am trying the maze but have yet to find it useful and have regretted it every time I have cast it or it hasn't impacted the board what so ever.
Round 1: vs Jund 2-0
Both games are long and grindy but fun. I end up stabilizing with O-stone or Ugin and take the game from there
Round 2: the mirror 0-2
Game 1 he has turn 3 tron into Karn and I'm unable to ever get back into it. Game 2 is back and forth with me having Ugin and Karn in play at one time while he cast Karn exiling my ugin and he also had wurmcoil in play. Needless to say he cast 2 ghost quarters and I was unable to get back into the game.
Round 3: mono g stompy 2-1
Game one I drop wurmcoil on turn 3 and he scoops. Game 2 he makes me shuffle my o-stone and beats my face in with big green creatures and he GQ me twice. Game 3 I get tron ultimate Ugin get emrakul and karn into play and he scoops.
Round 4: U/R delver 0-2
both games played out the same he plays a delver/young pyromancer counters my scryings or my pyroclasm and just kills me with burn and dudes.
With the popularity of x/4's and X/5's, Pyroclasm doesn't seem like too strong of a card right now. The white splash seemed better both for Paths, and the good white sideboard cards. The Paths and Spellskites give us a main deck answer to Twin besides Oblivion Stone, but they both also help in the aggro matchups. Having Timely Reinforcements dramatically increases our chances of winning against fast decks, as does Ghostly Prison (helps against Twin as well). Thoughts?
Not sure if this is relevant but I just lost to GW Tron after he unburialed rights Iona on white. Not sure if having a dismember or slaughter pact in the main would be worth it?
:edit: also can you explain why rest in peace or stony silence aren't in the board?
Oh Seems like you've done the research. To bad I was looking to try something different with Tron.
Just start testing this deck as it looks fun and I don't like playing a t1 deck so I dropped tron. Matchups have been fun or miserable. I have trouble sideboarding with your list for example whatd you put in for the leyline vs a control brew with discard?
So far I have liked Thragtusk. I haven't tried feed the clan but I can test it out to see how I like it but I feel that it may not be enough. Or if you rely on it and then they Skullcrack you. GQ just for the mirror amulet tron.
So I went back and it seems like Ulamog is a solid card. I haven't tried GW tron but am thinking about taking it. I have no idea what the meta will be like.
3 Pyroclasm
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
Creatures
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Spellskite
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Lands
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Karn Liberated
4 Oblivion Stone
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Nature's Claim
2 Rending Volley
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Spellskite
1 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thragtusk
1 Ghost Quarter
So this is my current deck. I have an RPTQ coming up in a week and would like any tips. Also if anyone has a SB guide that would be helpful for me. I know against some decks but not 100%. I've toyed with boil and choke in the board but am testing this out. Also I have put life from the loam in replace of crucible of worlds in but haven't gotten to use it yet. Wish me luck!
@lordseth I live like 3 hours from Chicago so I think most people went there
@figurative the top 8 was merfolk, Jund(normal), Jund brew, BW tokens, 2 GR tron, Storm and Burn. Didn't see any twin mainly creature decks not much combo either then the storm player and bloom player
As far as sideboard boil is a card I would highly recommend and natures claims I would really like more relics .
@praisethekappa
Well I prefer boil because the lands are gone and you can cast it at instant speed on there turn and then usually set them back far enough or get a counter out of there hand. Not to mention choke does get hit by ugin like Atlas said but I've also had a twin player bounce it with command and then cast pester mite and twin because they still have the lands.
Also I typically wouldn't bring it in against grixis as they don't have that many blue sources.
2 Spellskite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Pyroclasm
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
LANDS
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
4 Nature's Claim
4 Rending Volley
2 Feed the Clan
1 Dragon's Claw
1 Life from the Loam
1 Boil
2 Torpor Orb
So I just played in a 22 player PPTQ and originally I had Defense Grid in the board in place of Dragon's Claw but felt like the aggro/burn match up needed more help. I have tested with Ulamog and if the store I went to had it I would have included him in place of something else. I felt like I ran pretty hot but also don't felt like I had very many misplays always.
Round 1 vs Storm
He seems very nervous piloting the deck and later tells me its his first time. His slow play eventually lands us on dice with me tapping out while I have Relic of Progenitus in play to cast Wurmcoil Engine not leaving open the ability exile both gy. He had to have his last card in hand to be Past in Flames and it was so I lost when we could have drawn.
1-2
Round 2 vs Grixis Delver
Game 1 He stomps me with Young Pyromancer on 2 and counter backup for everything I cast. Game 2 his Delver of Secrets failed to flip for 6 consecutive turns while I mull'd to 5 and eventually hard cast an Emrakul. Game 3 he keeps a greedy hand and I cast tron and go crazy.
2-1
Round 3 vs GR Beats?
Not sure what he's playing but he kept a no lander with Goblin Guide on a mull to 5. I get turn 3 tron with Karn Liberated followed up with Pyroclasm After taking his one land. Game 2 he keeps another risky hand and I get an early tron into Wurmcoil and Ugin.
2-0
Round 4 vs Jund
He knew what I was playing so his opening hand was GQ into GQ into Fulminator Mage but I still eventually won. Game 2 I didn't have much sideboard besides LftL and won both games pretty easily not much to be said.
2-0
Round 5 vs Amulet Bloom
I got paired down so my opponent had to play incase he won. Game 1 I win by getting an early tron and aggressively GQ his lands. Game 2 goes to time and he wins on die roll. Seeing that he can't make top 8 and I make it win or draw he concedes to give me a higher seed.
Top 8
Quarter-Finals vs Jund (same guy from before)
Both games go pretty much the same besides game 2 I get down to 2 life and am dead he if has a bolt but he doesn't and am able to swing with Wurmcoil and then cast another one to put it away.
2-0
Semi-Finals vs Storm (same guy too)
Can't remember what happens besides last game I kept a 1 lander with just relic which he attempted to go for it but had to shoot my karn and hit me for 5 with grapeshot. I brought in Dragon's Claw but it got me to 39 then he cast Grapeshot for 19 storm then another one for 20 storm.
2-1
Finals vs Jund
This isn't your typical Jund as he said he didn't have any Fulminator Mages after the match. He had typical Bob Tarmogoyf but also had Grim Lavamancer and discard. Game 1 I stall long enough to hardcast Emrakul. Game 2 He keeps a risky 1 lander with 2 discard spells. My hand was Minex2 Tower Wurmcoil Stirrings Map Karn. He takes map and I draw another off the top and he misses his land drops while I get tron on line and cast Wurmcoil into Karn and he scoops.
2-0
So I WON!!!!
But it's pretty late and I just got home. I haven't actually won a tournament before but I've top 8'd some PPTQs and IQs but never won so this was a great feeling. Anyone has any questions just ask!
4 Rending Volley
2 Choke
2 Boil
4 Feed the Clan
2 Thragtusk
2 Torpor Orb
2 Defense Grid
1 Life from the Loam
4 Nature's Claim
3 Ancient Grudge
I feel like 4 Claims and 4 Volley are a must. That leaves me with 7 I really love Defense Grid so I don't have to worry about a counter or they spend there counter on the grid but Choke has been bad as in the game has gone long enough they were able to bounce the choke. I love boil because its instant so I can cast it on there end step and if they counter it great I can usually cast a bomb on my turn. Life I haven't really drawn yet in any of my match ups I have wanted it. Torpor Orb is awesome. I feel like Burn/Infect/Twin are our worst matchups so So combination of cards to beat them. Any thoughts?
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Spellskite
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Pyroclasm
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Mystifying Maze
Took the deck to my local FNM Heres a brief recap.
I am trying the maze but have yet to find it useful and have regretted it every time I have cast it or it hasn't impacted the board what so ever.
Round 1: vs Jund 2-0
Both games are long and grindy but fun. I end up stabilizing with O-stone or Ugin and take the game from there
Round 2: the mirror 0-2
Game 1 he has turn 3 tron into Karn and I'm unable to ever get back into it. Game 2 is back and forth with me having Ugin and Karn in play at one time while he cast Karn exiling my ugin and he also had wurmcoil in play. Needless to say he cast 2 ghost quarters and I was unable to get back into the game.
Round 3: mono g stompy 2-1
Game one I drop wurmcoil on turn 3 and he scoops. Game 2 he makes me shuffle my o-stone and beats my face in with big green creatures and he GQ me twice. Game 3 I get tron ultimate Ugin get emrakul and karn into play and he scoops.
Round 4: U/R delver 0-2
both games played out the same he plays a delver/young pyromancer counters my scryings or my pyroclasm and just kills me with burn and dudes.
List looks sweet. I'll give it a whirl
:edit: also can you explain why rest in peace or stony silence aren't in the board?