Leashling lets you have a situation where you've got Death Cultist in the hand and still can let you combo off THAT turn with a congregation, By setting it under Kiki-Jiki. Then you draw Kiki, activate one of your guys as a Leashling and put Death Cultist on top of your library for the combo win
Also, this may be a shameless plugin but I'd appreciate if you checked out my Demon Stompy deck thread and tell me what you think! I believe it has a lot of potential to be a player (as well as this) and the more comments and ideas the better!
Sorry for the double post, but worked on the first post in the thread with card choices and why! Will add potential cards section and the sideboard later, but I've got all the cards in the current list accounted for!
Master usually does me pretty well actually, because most decks don't have too good of a way to deal with him outside of abrupt decay/path, which to me is fine because if they burn a path on him, I get a land out of it along with -1 Path do deal with my other threats. His card draw for them is a drawback of course, but not many decks can keep pace with a 3 mana 5/5 that's hitting them through the air unless their packing a removal spell in their hand, and again, I think that's fine also. The ability doesn't go off until MY upkeep, so they also have to hold their mana open for it to be profitable for them, so things like maelstrom pulse just sort of 1 for 1 him. Having said that, he is obviously the worst beater in the deck, but I think a turn 3 beater that sets a nice clock up is completely fine. At worst, I'm gonna break even with them if they don't remove it because I'll pitch him to disciple for a draw 5 gain 5 combo. Matchups like Zoo and affinity are actually pretty easy if you get the discard --> removal spell --> master of the feast --> D-demon/Persecutor runs out of the gate! Affinity has a hard time with your creature package especially because, again all of your guys have flying
So here's an updated version of the list, cutting the Xathrid and an Inquisition for Liliana. While I do think something like a sweeper would be nice mainboard, I'm not sure I feel safe cutting any of the cards because the targeted removal really does what we want it to game one; be cheap, be efficient, and get rid of their best early threats. I am pretty confident that my creatures on turn 3 and 4, and proceeding will be better than theirs (Even tron has a big problem dealing with flying 5/5s and 6/6s
Yeah, I think Cartel is just way too good with protection to not play. Also, Haruspex can, in a sense take his spot, but 3 mana is a bit different than two. It does have a more synergistic effect though! So it depends on the build I guess!
I could see maybe cutting the Xathrid Demon and an Inquisition of Kozilek for Liliana of the Veil. I know Sickening Shoal may seem bad but trust me it leads to so many blowouts against a deck like infect, and can save you in a pinch against affinity game 1 when they spend their black mana to instant speed equip plating and things like that. Not too comfortable using those slots for Slaughter Pact because of the fact that those decks can be putting me to a critically low life total (or dead) before I'd have the mana for the pact
Actually, I have a pretty good game versus the tron and eldrazi decks. My disruption might only hit a threat or two, but IoK taking a heartless summoning is nice, and I'll cash it in on an expedition map if I can as well no problem. My guys are generally about as big, and I can go over their creatures with flying on my side. It might look like it on paper and to that I agree, but playing it, if you know what's in the deck it's not a big deal going against large midrange decks
Right, the main reason I steered clear from most of the kamigawa block stuff is their drawbacks usually feel too large! The reason the demons I picked are in there is because they have the best drawbacks for me to deal with, to go along with their efficient bodies. I'll think about Mark of the Oni, but I'm not sure what I'd use it against yet
Oh hey look, some actually constructive criticism! I forgot people had tact anymore. First off, thanks for the input!
Anyways, so I tried playing with mind stone and heartless summoning, but I always felt in my mind "if only I played a little more disruption early". Because with those 4 slots, you lose quite a bit of your spell package. Since Desecration Demon does have a pretty big drawback against certain decks, I felt it's just a better choice to play a control deck the first 3 turns essentially, clearing out anything they do and hit their hand a bit, then turn the corner turn 4 and become the beatdown deck with hard to deal with, fast clock threats. Death's Gate I chose to run mainboard because it gives you some added versatility for your other cards, as it is a sac outlet in a way, but in hand it basically makes anything short of an undamaged ulamog just dead with shoal, and against some infect decks that works very well since they see you tapped out and go all in. Main reason for the last point is 2 colors would be somewhat difficult with the manabase, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan of the 5 drop ones.. any suggestions on the 5 drops though? Haha
Okay, so what are some bad choices then? Surely not nameless inversion as its a kill spell AND a pump spell in the deck. Also, Death's Gate is never getting cast normally, it's there for bitterblossom, another way to sac persecutor, or a sickening shoal target. Also, I'm gonna run a high number of 4 drops when they have 6 power and toughness to go along with flying and or trample. That's a pretty low buy in cost for what you get back
Grafted Wargear either makes your demons even bigger, gives a way to sac persecutor, or lets you play a fun game of making a suped up Insectile Abberation each turn with blossom
Hey guys, back with another deck idea. I'm gonna go more in-depth with a primer of sorts when I have time tomorrow, but I just wanted to post this overnight to see some people's thoughts when I get up in the morning! Thanks for any input, and hopefully this will look a lot more "official" come tomorrow!
I've been playtesting this deck quite a bit, and I guess the weaker matchups (game one, at least) are Affinity and Burn. Granted, the tools to beat them are in the original 60, but that's a matter of drawing them. In the board are mostly cards to combat those decks, while also having some more tools against some of the larger Tier One decks
- All of your creatures aside from Disciple of Bolas having evasion is a large bonus to this deck as well!
- Swamp - Next!
- Bojuka Bog - Pretty good way to get rid of the yard, which is nice versus decks like dredgevine. Can hurt burn and control decks because it shuts off Grim Lavamancer & Snapcaster Mage as well!
- Cavern of Souls - Well, the only thing I can think of better than a 4cmc 6/6 flyer is an uncouterable one
- Ghost Quarter - Because nobody likes Tron and Eldrazi decks! They can piss off, I want to be the only deck playing fatties in my game
- Miren, the Moaning Well - This is an amazing utility land for the deck, being able to gain you chunks of life in a pinch, or just winning the game if an Abyssal Persecutor did his work for the game
- Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - Given the fact that we have quite a few permanents of the same color that are pretty hard to get off the table, Nykthos is an obvious choice. Occasionally lets you dump Demon of Death's Gate onto the battlefield, but more usually activates Sickening Shoal without having to burn a card on their bigger stuff
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - the main reason we get to run so many goodies in our land package that tap for colorless, because it lets everything tap for black! co-MVP land with Miren for sure
- Abyssal Persecutor - Best creature in the deck, with a big drawback obviously. We have so many ways to get rid of him though (9!) so you can pretty easily put him to sleep when he did his thing
- Desecration Demon - Our second 4cmc 6/6 flyer, he plays quite a bit different but is still a load to deal with. He has added value when he gets larger from your opponent's choice to sac a creature, and you can start drawing upwards of 7 and gaining 7 life with our sacrifice packages
- Master of the Feast - a bit smaller, and a 3cmc guy with probably (?) the biggest drawback for a creature in the deck, but sometimes a 5/5 flyer on turn 3 is enough to seal the deal. He can also get cashed in with your sac package to recoup the advantage he gives the other player
- Demon of Death's Gate - Now he may look silly at first, but trust me if I'm somehow hardcasting this guy (outside of a Nykthos occasionally), I have already lost that game. He is there mostly to be cheated in with Bitterblossom, sac'ing a Persecutor, or a Sickening Shoal target. He's all utility baby! Quite often have I turn 4 Persecutor, turn 5 sac 3 BB tokens to make this bad boy, and Gotten rid of him to a Disciple of Bolas to take me way out of kill range AND draw NINE cards. Don't knock it til you try it!
- Disciple of Bolas - Who doesn't love some hard value when you're really looking for an answer? Look no further! Don't like your opponent drawing off Master of the Feast anymore? Well this is your card to go to. At worst we'ere talking about drawing 5 and gaining 5. That's a big advantage. If I use this on a BB token I wanna scoop anyways tbh
- Disfigure - Can't hurt to have a 1cmc removal spell for the little guys! I have also used it to get rid of some indestructible creatures post-combat from time to time
- Nameless Inversion - This is a sweet, sweet card for the deck. Not only does it act as a kill spell (Also ignoring indestructible), it can count as a pump spell for all the huge creatures in the deck as an added "Bolt" to their life total
- Sickening Shoal - This is what I like to call the blowout card, versus decks like infect and certain aggro decks as well. It's "free", and can take care of any creatures with indestructible (Looking at you Eldrazi bastards). Makes a very nice card to have Death's Gate get pitched to
- Inquisition of Kozilek - Discard is a great way to start the game, and this might be the best in the format. Even against Tron and Eldrazi-X decks, I'm fine grabbing an Expedition Map or Heartless Summoning because that might just win you the game against some of their hands!
- Thoughtseize - More discard! This one can hit any nonland though, at the cost of some life. Getting rid of anything you don't like that they have in their hands is too good to pass up
- Bitterblossom - Gotta love this one. Cheap, efficient, and an enabler for Demon of Death's Gate, it does a lot. It also gives you tons of blockers while your big guys do their thing. The life loss can be gotten back pretty easily with our sac packages, so it's not a big threat to kill you in MOST cases
- Liliana of the Veil - Not much needs to be said about Lily I don't think! However it does have some interactions with the deck that should be mentioned. For example, if you have her and Master of the Feast in hand, cast the one you don't care about as much first. Let them kill it, then drop the other. They kind of non-bo together, so it's best to only have one or the other out and maybe use the other as a sickening shoal target. She also can help you sac Persecutor, which is a big bonus!
- Grafted Wargear - My personal favorite card in the deck, it does tons! Sac Persecutor? Check. Turn BB tokens into super-Insectile Aberrations? Check that too. Make any other fatty even beefier? Cha-check. Give you some FREE equip to draw even more cards or gain even more life from Miren, the Moaning Well or Disciple of Bolas? Check-a-mundo baby! It does everything. 10/10
I'll make a "card choices" section for the sideboard later, but here's a current list I'm going with:
Liliana Vess and Garruk Relentless could be cards that act as tutors for missing pieces while also being able to present themselves as a threat. Could be worth a try?
One of the main reasons I only want to play 1 Athreos to he honest. He does serve a purpose though. Remember the X costed creatures CAN come down as actual bodies, so against certain decks you can actually thwart their attacks with a clogged board, or if you have them pretty low already, they have to let you get your guys back. With 8 spells that dig for a creature, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever be without a creature play, through my testing. I do agree that he isn't optimal, however I think he does serve a pretty nice purpose
So as for the card choices, let's start: Molten Nursery: Another Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat effect, and it can be fetched with Commune With the Gods or Idyllic Tutor. Having a 9th card with this ability in the deck helps consistency Athreos, God of Passage: Effectively a worse Enduring Renewal at all times, he does come down on turn 3 and in some rare instances, become a creature beater. Being able to drain 3 or 4 depending on having a cutthroat or artist out by slamming 0 cost creatures, he can also help end games rather quickly. Is also fetchable with Commune With Nature AND Commune With the Gods, so he's surprisingly easy to get. Soul's Attendant: Helps you get incremental life gain through playing the game, and also can give you an "infinite life" combo with Enduring Renewal and a 0-mana dude.
2x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Windswept Heath
3x Breeding Pool
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Temple Garden
1x Watery Grave
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Seachrome Coast
2x City of Brass
2x Plains
1x Island
1x Forest
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Skill Borrower
2x Spellskite
1x Death Cultist
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Leashling
Spells
4x Condemn
4x Gods Willing
3x Enshrouding Mist
4x Congregation at Dawn
4x Serum Visions
3x See Beyond
1x Mystic Speculation
1x Elvish Piper
1x Street Wraith
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Children of Korlis
1x Necrotic Ooze
4x Nature's Claim
4x Rest for the Weary
Leashling lets you have a situation where you've got Death Cultist in the hand and still can let you combo off THAT turn with a congregation, By setting it under Kiki-Jiki. Then you draw Kiki, activate one of your guys as a Leashling and put Death Cultist on top of your library for the combo win
Also, this may be a shameless plugin but I'd appreciate if you checked out my Demon Stompy deck thread and tell me what you think! I believe it has a lot of potential to be a player (as well as this) and the more comments and ideas the better!
So here's an updated version of the list, cutting the Xathrid and an Inquisition for Liliana. While I do think something like a sweeper would be nice mainboard, I'm not sure I feel safe cutting any of the cards because the targeted removal really does what we want it to game one; be cheap, be efficient, and get rid of their best early threats. I am pretty confident that my creatures on turn 3 and 4, and proceeding will be better than theirs (Even tron has a big problem dealing with flying 5/5s and 6/6s
2x Bojuka Bog
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Miren, the Moaning Well
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
9x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures
4x Abyssal Persecutor
2x Demon of Death's Gate
4x Desecration Demon
1x Disciple of Bolas
4x Master of the Feast
1x Disfigure
2x Nameless Inversion
2x Sickening Shoal
3x Smother
Sorceries
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Enchantments
4x Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers
2x Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
2x Grafted Wargear
2x Cranial Extraction --- Eldrazi,other Midrange
2x Devour Flesh --- Infect, Hyper Aggro
2x Flaying Tendrils --- Affinity, Aggro
2x Ghost Quarter --- Eldrazi, Affinity
2x Sickening Shoal --- Infect (?)
4x Sun Droplet --- Burn, some aggro
1x Thoughtseize --- Combo, some Control
Yeah, I think Cartel is just way too good with protection to not play. Also, Haruspex can, in a sense take his spot, but 3 mana is a bit different than two. It does have a more synergistic effect though! So it depends on the build I guess!
Anyways, so I tried playing with mind stone and heartless summoning, but I always felt in my mind "if only I played a little more disruption early". Because with those 4 slots, you lose quite a bit of your spell package. Since Desecration Demon does have a pretty big drawback against certain decks, I felt it's just a better choice to play a control deck the first 3 turns essentially, clearing out anything they do and hit their hand a bit, then turn the corner turn 4 and become the beatdown deck with hard to deal with, fast clock threats. Death's Gate I chose to run mainboard because it gives you some added versatility for your other cards, as it is a sac outlet in a way, but in hand it basically makes anything short of an undamaged ulamog just dead with shoal, and against some infect decks that works very well since they see you tapped out and go all in. Main reason for the last point is 2 colors would be somewhat difficult with the manabase, and to be honest I'm not a huge fan of the 5 drop ones.. any suggestions on the 5 drops though? Haha
Grafted Wargear either makes your demons even bigger, gives a way to sac persecutor, or lets you play a fun game of making a suped up Insectile Abberation each turn with blossom
I've been playtesting this deck quite a bit, and I guess the weaker matchups (game one, at least) are Affinity and Burn. Granted, the tools to beat them are in the original 60, but that's a matter of drawing them. In the board are mostly cards to combat those decks, while also having some more tools against some of the larger Tier One decks
- All of your creatures aside from Disciple of Bolas having evasion is a large bonus to this deck as well!
- Bojuka Bog - Pretty good way to get rid of the yard, which is nice versus decks like dredgevine. Can hurt burn and control decks because it shuts off Grim Lavamancer & Snapcaster Mage as well!
- Cavern of Souls - Well, the only thing I can think of better than a 4cmc 6/6 flyer is an uncouterable one
- Ghost Quarter - Because nobody likes Tron and Eldrazi decks! They can piss off, I want to be the only deck playing fatties in my game
- Miren, the Moaning Well - This is an amazing utility land for the deck, being able to gain you chunks of life in a pinch, or just winning the game if an Abyssal Persecutor did his work for the game
- Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - Given the fact that we have quite a few permanents of the same color that are pretty hard to get off the table, Nykthos is an obvious choice. Occasionally lets you dump Demon of Death's Gate onto the battlefield, but more usually activates Sickening Shoal without having to burn a card on their bigger stuff
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - the main reason we get to run so many goodies in our land package that tap for colorless, because it lets everything tap for black! co-MVP land with Miren for sure
- Desecration Demon - Our second 4cmc 6/6 flyer, he plays quite a bit different but is still a load to deal with. He has added value when he gets larger from your opponent's choice to sac a creature, and you can start drawing upwards of 7 and gaining 7 life with our sacrifice packages
- Master of the Feast - a bit smaller, and a 3cmc guy with probably (?) the biggest drawback for a creature in the deck, but sometimes a 5/5 flyer on turn 3 is enough to seal the deal. He can also get cashed in with your sac package to recoup the advantage he gives the other player
- Demon of Death's Gate - Now he may look silly at first, but trust me if I'm somehow hardcasting this guy (outside of a Nykthos occasionally), I have already lost that game. He is there mostly to be cheated in with Bitterblossom, sac'ing a Persecutor, or a Sickening Shoal target. He's all utility baby! Quite often have I turn 4 Persecutor, turn 5 sac 3 BB tokens to make this bad boy, and Gotten rid of him to a Disciple of Bolas to take me way out of kill range AND draw NINE cards. Don't knock it til you try it!
- Disciple of Bolas - Who doesn't love some hard value when you're really looking for an answer? Look no further! Don't like your opponent drawing off Master of the Feast anymore? Well this is your card to go to. At worst we'ere talking about drawing 5 and gaining 5. That's a big advantage. If I use this on a BB token I wanna scoop anyways tbh
- Nameless Inversion - This is a sweet, sweet card for the deck. Not only does it act as a kill spell (Also ignoring indestructible), it can count as a pump spell for all the huge creatures in the deck as an added "Bolt" to their life total
- Sickening Shoal - This is what I like to call the blowout card, versus decks like infect and certain aggro decks as well. It's "free", and can take care of any creatures with indestructible (Looking at you Eldrazi bastards). Makes a very nice card to have Death's Gate get pitched to
- Inquisition of Kozilek - Discard is a great way to start the game, and this might be the best in the format. Even against Tron and Eldrazi-X decks, I'm fine grabbing an Expedition Map or Heartless Summoning because that might just win you the game against some of their hands!
- Thoughtseize - More discard! This one can hit any nonland though, at the cost of some life. Getting rid of anything you don't like that they have in their hands is too good to pass up
- Bitterblossom - Gotta love this one. Cheap, efficient, and an enabler for Demon of Death's Gate, it does a lot. It also gives you tons of blockers while your big guys do their thing. The life loss can be gotten back pretty easily with our sac packages, so it's not a big threat to kill you in MOST cases
- Liliana of the Veil - Not much needs to be said about Lily I don't think! However it does have some interactions with the deck that should be mentioned. For example, if you have her and Master of the Feast in hand, cast the one you don't care about as much first. Let them kill it, then drop the other. They kind of non-bo together, so it's best to only have one or the other out and maybe use the other as a sickening shoal target. She also can help you sac Persecutor, which is a big bonus!
- Grafted Wargear - My personal favorite card in the deck, it does tons! Sac Persecutor? Check. Turn BB tokens into super-Insectile Aberrations? Check that too. Make any other fatty even beefier? Cha-check. Give you some FREE equip to draw even more cards or gain even more life from Miren, the Moaning Well or Disciple of Bolas? Check-a-mundo baby! It does everything. 10/10
I'll make a "card choices" section for the sideboard later, but here's a current list I'm going with:
2x Bojuka Bog
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Miren, the Moaning Well
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
9x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures
4x Abyssal Persecutor
2x Demon of Death's Gate
4x Desecration Demon
1x Disciple of Bolas
4x Master of the Feast
1x Disfigure
2x Nameless Inversion
2x Sickening Shoal
3x Smother
Sorceries
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Enchantments
4x Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers
2x Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
2x Grafted Wargear
2x Cranial Extraction --- Eldrazi,other Midrange
2x Devour Flesh --- Infect, Hyper Aggro
2x Flaying Tendrils --- Affinity, Aggro
2x Ghost Quarter --- Eldrazi, Affinity
2x Sickening Shoal --- Infect (?)
4x Sun Droplet --- Burn, some aggro
1x Thoughtseize --- Combo, some Control
Thanks to EvincarCrovax and maverickzero for the Liliana suggestions, idk what I was thinking lmao
4 Enduring renewal
1 Molten Nursery
Creatures
4 Blood Artist
4 Zulaport Cutthroat
4 Endless One
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Wild Cantor
1 Athreos, God of Passage
2 Soul's Attendant
Sorceries
4 Commune With the Gods
4 Commune with Nature
3 Thoughtseize
1 Idyllic Tutor
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
2 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Creeping Corrosion
4 Reviving Melody
2 Riftsweeper
2 Destructive Revelry
Sorry for double posting, but here is a newer version that I have created, cutting 4 Collected Company for 1 Athreos, God of Passage, 1 Molten Nursery, and 2 Soul's Attendant. As previously mentioned by you guys, there was already enough dig and not enough action.
So as for the card choices, let's start:
Molten Nursery: Another Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat effect, and it can be fetched with Commune With the Gods or Idyllic Tutor. Having a 9th card with this ability in the deck helps consistency
Athreos, God of Passage: Effectively a worse Enduring Renewal at all times, he does come down on turn 3 and in some rare instances, become a creature beater. Being able to drain 3 or 4 depending on having a cutthroat or artist out by slamming 0 cost creatures, he can also help end games rather quickly. Is also fetchable with Commune With Nature AND Commune With the Gods, so he's surprisingly easy to get.
Soul's Attendant: Helps you get incremental life gain through playing the game, and also can give you an "infinite life" combo with Enduring Renewal and a 0-mana dude.