I tried a version previously built around Powerstone Shard and Trophy Mage although I did not see the Guardians combo. I have been liking the version with Servant and Rampager as I think they are better cards in a non combo scenario than Guardians but that looks good too. I would definitely play Glint-Nest Crane as finding Paradox Engine is super important.
Bestiary is amazing and really helps you grind but drawing more than one can be really awkward and I wanted a way to deal with Thrashing Brontodon and Gate to the Afterlife main. Map is to try and bump the artifact count.
I have been working on the following list for a bit, its a fun combo deck that contains an infinite mana combo, the ability to draw your deck or combo off without going infinite.
The sideboard is still a work in progress, most of the main deck is fairly essential too the combo so sideboarding is tough, I would love feedback on it!
Infinite mana combo - Servant of the Conduit + Greenbelt Rampager + Paradox Engine + any nonland mana generator.
This generates infinite mana by continuously recasting card]Greenbelt Rampager[/card] and using Servant of the Conduit to drain that energy away so Rampager never sticks. Engine untaps the Servant and the additional mana generator allows you to go infinite.
Comboing off without the infinite combo - Its also very doable to combo off without going infinite, to do this you generally need Gilded Lotus plus Engine. With additional cards from Bestiary it becomes much easier to chain cards into mana and cast a winning Walking Ballista. Rampager is extremely helpful here as well, generating large amounts of mana with Engine and fueling you with cards through Bestiary. You can also use Aether Hub to drain energy if you do not have Servant and get more cast triggers out of Rampager.
Card Choices
The cards outside the combo either accelerate you and help you go off in the non infinite combos or help you find your combo pieces. I'd love to find room for a 4th Champion of Wits. I have flipped back and forth between the 4th Champion and 4th Bestiary but am going with Bestiary for now as it improves Crane and is incredibly important in grindy matchups.
Turn 1 - Elves
Turn 2 - Servant or Servant + elves if its the 2 elf version
Turn 3 - If 2 elves cast engine then go infinite. If one elf cast walking ballista for 0 then go infinite.
Also the the point of playing the long game while you don't have a massive number of sources of traditional card advantage (electro, snap, tasigur) the cantrip density means you are much less likely to flood out than your opponent in the long run.
On deprive - One of the biggest strengths of the deck is its ability to pla ythe control/long and grindy game. Against the 2 most popular decks in the format (abzan and twin) they games tend to go very long and be extremely grindy. Deprive shines here, lets look at a few different situations. You flip turn 1 delver and deprive their removal spell, yes this puts you behind vs leak but you are probably winning the game anyway. Depriving something on turn 3-4, you are running 18 lands, in most situations you would not have land to play the next turn so deprive is not setting you back. Late game, deprive is miles better than any of the other counters. I at 1 point I had 3 deprive 1 remand main with hte 4th in the sb but found myself brining it in every twin and abzan match.
@PUFNSTUF360 - I have not tested much with maindeck discard (unfortunately I don't have infite testing time although I wish), I'm really curious to see how it goes for you. My main concern would be in most cases you want your first dual to be vents since red is more important in the early game.
@Moutz and @CmdrSlayer - DEfinitely agree the board needs work, outpost siege being the glaring change. I switched onto basic swamp and blood moons about 4 days before the gp and did not have time to go back and retest abzan where outpost siege shined. I would definitely cut it for one mroe anti affintiy card either shatterstorm or vandalbalst depending on how flexible you want it to be. Combust also underpreformed and I would really encourage a switch towards spellskite.
I'm not sure how much can be done for the burn matchup without really hurting a lot of other matchups. Burn is always goingto be a struggle for a 3 color aggro control deck.
@ GrixisLoverboy What do you cut? the main is pretty tight right now and your first fetch is usually for vents as red tends to be more important than black in the first few turns unless you are going for t2 tasigur. The 1x thoughtseize in the board is a general anti combo card and you want the ability to take twin/prime time, although I could see testing inquisition in its slot.
@ L0rdAceX
Thank you. The abzan matchup is really helped by cuts/deprive, you are definitely the control deck against them.
1) 5-0-1 against twin, 2-1 against affintiy, 1-0 against abzan, 2-0 against infect, 0-2 against burn. and something I forget.
2) Really liked the manabase, had a blood crypt which I missed slightly that I cut for a swamp so I could run blood mood, I think the trade off is worth it. Darkslick is great as a free black source and good against choke. Falls is solid, wish there was a u/r version of darkslick but it gets the job done.
3) yes, loved electrolyze and felt 3 was the perfect number, like i said in the original post one of my favorite bits about the deck is how easy it is to switch between controlling and aggressive roles, electrolyze helps make the control portion of the deck much stronger. Also a house against affinity.
4) Not really, they tend to be turn 3+ cards for me, even when you dont draw thoughtscour there are 13 other one mana instants/sorceries plus fetches. I could see shifting to 2 terminate/2 murderous cut if you where worried.
HI all, Max here, couple of notes on cards you guys brought up and changes I would make post GP
Deprive - started as a 2 of, quickly made it up to 4, with 18 lands the drawback isnt huge and you are usually cantripping/playing a creatures/bolting things in turns 1-3. The list I ran leans slightly more controlling and having hard counters is extremely helpful vs mana leak or remand.
Changes post GP
Main
-1 Sleight of hand +1 Burst lightning - Felt like it needed 1 more 1 mana removal spell, lightning is great late game as well agaisnt stuff like wilt leaf leige, deciever exarch and smiter
SB
-1 Outpost Seige - this was a holdover against abzan from a version pre blood moon
-1 combust - the twin matchup is already great
+1 Spellskite
+1 vandalblast
All in all great tournament, the last round was a bit frustrating but burn is by FAR the decks worst matchup. In test twin and infect where excellent, affinity solid and abzan slightly favored. Burn is really rough, didn't get much of a chance to test against bloom combo as I could not find a good pilot to test against. If anyone has questions about card choices/the list please let me know.
In my list I am trying
-1 Zhalfirin Void
-1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
+1 Sorcerous Spyglass
+1 Renegade Map
Bestiary is amazing and really helps you grind but drawing more than one can be really awkward and I wanted a way to deal with Thrashing Brontodon and Gate to the Afterlife main. Map is to try and bump the artifact count.
I have been working on the following list for a bit, its a fun combo deck that contains an infinite mana combo, the ability to draw your deck or combo off without going infinite.
List
3 Champion of Wits
4 Glint-Nest Crane
4 Greenbelt Rampager
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Naga Vitalist
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Walking Ballista
4 Paradox Engine
4 Gilded Lotus
4 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
4 Aether Hub
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Zhalfirin Void
7 Forest
1 Island
The sideboard is still a work in progress, most of the main deck is fairly essential too the combo so sideboarding is tough, I would love feedback on it!
4 Negate
3 Thrashing Brontodon
2 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Padeem Consul of Innovation
3 Confiscation Coup
1 Manglehorn
How the deck works
Infinite mana combo - Servant of the Conduit + Greenbelt Rampager + Paradox Engine + any nonland mana generator.
This generates infinite mana by continuously recasting card]Greenbelt Rampager[/card] and using Servant of the Conduit to drain that energy away so Rampager never sticks. Engine untaps the Servant and the additional mana generator allows you to go infinite.
Draw your deck - The above combo plus Lifecrafter's Bestiary
Comboing off without the infinite combo - Its also very doable to combo off without going infinite, to do this you generally need Gilded Lotus plus Engine. With additional cards from Bestiary it becomes much easier to chain cards into mana and cast a winning Walking Ballista. Rampager is extremely helpful here as well, generating large amounts of mana with Engine and fueling you with cards through Bestiary. You can also use Aether Hub to drain energy if you do not have Servant and get more cast triggers out of Rampager.
Card Choices
The cards outside the combo either accelerate you and help you go off in the non infinite combos or help you find your combo pieces. I'd love to find room for a 4th Champion of Wits. I have flipped back and forth between the 4th Champion and 4th Bestiary but am going with Bestiary for now as it improves Crane and is incredibly important in grindy matchups.
Fun Notes
You can kill on turn 3. You need
3 lands + 1 Llanowar Elves + 1 Servant of the Conduit + 1 Paradox Engine + 1 Greenbelt Rampager + 1 Llanowar Elves or 1 Walking Ballista + 1 Walking Ballista or Lifecrafter's Bestiary
Turn 1 - Elves
Turn 2 - Servant or Servant + elves if its the 2 elf version
Turn 3 - If 2 elves cast engine then go infinite. If one elf cast walking ballista for 0 then go infinite.
On deprive - One of the biggest strengths of the deck is its ability to pla ythe control/long and grindy game. Against the 2 most popular decks in the format (abzan and twin) they games tend to go very long and be extremely grindy. Deprive shines here, lets look at a few different situations. You flip turn 1 delver and deprive their removal spell, yes this puts you behind vs leak but you are probably winning the game anyway. Depriving something on turn 3-4, you are running 18 lands, in most situations you would not have land to play the next turn so deprive is not setting you back. Late game, deprive is miles better than any of the other counters. I at 1 point I had 3 deprive 1 remand main with hte 4th in the sb but found myself brining it in every twin and abzan match.
@PUFNSTUF360 - I have not tested much with maindeck discard (unfortunately I don't have infite testing time although I wish), I'm really curious to see how it goes for you. My main concern would be in most cases you want your first dual to be vents since red is more important in the early game.
@Moutz and @CmdrSlayer - DEfinitely agree the board needs work, outpost siege being the glaring change. I switched onto basic swamp and blood moons about 4 days before the gp and did not have time to go back and retest abzan where outpost siege shined. I would definitely cut it for one mroe anti affintiy card either shatterstorm or vandalbalst depending on how flexible you want it to be. Combust also underpreformed and I would really encourage a switch towards spellskite.
I'm not sure how much can be done for the burn matchup without really hurting a lot of other matchups. Burn is always goingto be a struggle for a 3 color aggro control deck.
@ GrixisLoverboy What do you cut? the main is pretty tight right now and your first fetch is usually for vents as red tends to be more important than black in the first few turns unless you are going for t2 tasigur. The 1x thoughtseize in the board is a general anti combo card and you want the ability to take twin/prime time, although I could see testing inquisition in its slot.
@ L0rdAceX
Thank you. The abzan matchup is really helped by cuts/deprive, you are definitely the control deck against them.
1) 5-0-1 against twin, 2-1 against affintiy, 1-0 against abzan, 2-0 against infect, 0-2 against burn. and something I forget.
2) Really liked the manabase, had a blood crypt which I missed slightly that I cut for a swamp so I could run blood mood, I think the trade off is worth it. Darkslick is great as a free black source and good against choke. Falls is solid, wish there was a u/r version of darkslick but it gets the job done.
3) yes, loved electrolyze and felt 3 was the perfect number, like i said in the original post one of my favorite bits about the deck is how easy it is to switch between controlling and aggressive roles, electrolyze helps make the control portion of the deck much stronger. Also a house against affinity.
4) Not really, they tend to be turn 3+ cards for me, even when you dont draw thoughtscour there are 13 other one mana instants/sorceries plus fetches. I could see shifting to 2 terminate/2 murderous cut if you where worried.
Deprive - started as a 2 of, quickly made it up to 4, with 18 lands the drawback isnt huge and you are usually cantripping/playing a creatures/bolting things in turns 1-3. The list I ran leans slightly more controlling and having hard counters is extremely helpful vs mana leak or remand.
Changes post GP
Main
-1 Sleight of hand +1 Burst lightning - Felt like it needed 1 more 1 mana removal spell, lightning is great late game as well agaisnt stuff like wilt leaf leige, deciever exarch and smiter
SB
-1 Outpost Seige - this was a holdover against abzan from a version pre blood moon
-1 combust - the twin matchup is already great
+1 Spellskite
+1 vandalblast
All in all great tournament, the last round was a bit frustrating but burn is by FAR the decks worst matchup. In test twin and infect where excellent, affinity solid and abzan slightly favored. Burn is really rough, didn't get much of a chance to test against bloom combo as I could not find a good pilot to test against. If anyone has questions about card choices/the list please let me know.
4 Monastery Swiftsprear
4 Jeskai Elder
4 Mogis Warhound
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Void Snare
4 Tormenting Voice
4 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Voyage's End
4 Shivan Reef
4 Temple of Epiphany
5 Mountain
5 Island
2 Mana Confluence
Its been running pretty well and the sideboard is still a work in progress but so far will contain 3x Negate and 3x Arc Lightning
Thoughts?