What's the deal with Jeskai Harbringer being in tier 2 for so long? It's metagame presence has been pretty much zero for ages both in paper and online.
Still putting up enough results here and there mainly, it's pretty common in some areas still cause paper meta change a lot slower. Wouldn't be surprised to see it drop off into Tier 3 or lower next update though.
And Abzan most definitely plays Gideon - I've seen him popping up in Legacy as well.
Yep, he's a 1-2 of in BW Tokens, 1-2 of in most Abzan Midrange, 2 of in legacy Death and Taxes sideboard, as well as additional places in modern, legacy, vintage, and sees a lot of edh play. $10 is definitely the lowest he'll ever get and I'd personally expect him to bottom out around $15
Sorry but you're a bit off on those matchups.
Zoo, Nahiri, and Sun and Moon are all favorable. Sun and Moon in particular is very good, they lose to Bitterblossom/Souls bad, and I've had multiple players of it tell me just that.
Ad Nauseum and Bogles are more neutral, both lose bad to discard and sideboard.
As for Hatebears it depends on the version of the deck, GW or Mono White are good, Eldrazi and Taxes is very bad.
I have actually cut Stony Silence completely, Affinity is so naturally favorable that it's basically run just for Ad Naus/Tron at this point. Ad Naus is entirely beatable through discard/pressure, and Tron is just not going to happen so don't run hate just for it. Auriok is very good currently, but it is rather pricy and can be hard to find.
I've been looking at my sideboard a lot lately and I can't decide on which cards to play. Notably, I've been thinking long and hard on jongsl5's recommendation on removing the Stony Silence altogether. I always ran a combination of this card and Kataki, War's Wage at 3 specifically for affinity and Lanter control, and I must admit it was out of pure habitude, and sided them extremely rarely otherwise. I could really use the space for other options against other decks, namely Eldrazi, as it's growing in my meta, or simply to cover some of the deck's weaknesses.
Running a lot of Artifact/Enchantment hate because, well I hate Floodgate type cards like Ensnaring Bridge and Worship. My deck is constructed so if those get out game 1, I just scoop and go straight to game 2 with proper answers to those. I'm probably overkilling it though... Runed Halo and Blessed Alliance saved my rear many time against Eldrazi, Boggle and infect. Halo also served me well against some combo decks (Ad nauseum) and Alliance helps a lot against Burn, especially if they play aggro. I currently consider them my extra spot removal of choice, but again, two of each might be overkill.
The rest is self-explainatory. Some grave hate for Dredge and Living end And Selfless Spirit for sweeper protection. Pithing needle mostly for problematic lands/Planeswalkers, occasionnally a creature. I could replace it with more discard, but this little needle stops way more stuff than I thought. Probably gonna stay at two, since it stops Engineered explosives and I don't have Stony silence anymore for that.
I've also took a quick peek at some of the decklist in everybody's signature and I have a couple questions on sideboard card choice:
-Is Damping Matrix Good? I see it as a potential Mega Pithing Needle, but it not affecting planeswalkers or land really bugs me.
-Ghostly Prison Worth a try? My meta is kind of high on aggro decks.
-I feel like Memoricide is better than Stain the mind, But I don't really like either. Lost Legacy Is where I'd put my money on. Or maybe I should stick to the classic Discard effect/Ghost Quarter + Surgical Extraction? Dunno. I don't really miss the card, and I'm not really looking for land disruption as no one is playing tron and few play Titan shift/valakut in my meta. Combo decks are more popular.
-Why the Celestial Purge? Is it because of Nahiri? Blood Moon? What else relevant does it stops?
-Flaying Tendrils?? Is Wrath of god not better? Or is the exile clause relevant?
-How do you deal with siding-in Worship? Do you removes some or all of your Bitterblossom or do you leave then in hoping you'll get one or the other? Just want to know because I already killed myself by doing the lather out of pure curiosity.
-Any recommendations? I mostly want something good against eldrazies.
Celestial Purge hits any Black or Red Permanent. Blood Moon, Nahiri, Koth, Tasigur, Liliana, Night of Souls Betrayal, etc. Just a very solid 1 of hate card. Additionally activated manlands (ex. Raging Ravine) and mountains from Koth's +1 have colors. Flaying Tendrils is usually going to be better, it's a turn faster, exile is relevant against Company/Dredge/Revolt Zoo, and it's colorless which is rarely relevant but could have applications at some point. Worship is always going to be a nonbo with Bitterblossom, just a fact of life, but the times it's good it's very good. You can either play around it, lifegain back up (blocking with Lifelink), or just be prepared to blow away blossom if it comes to that. Also remember you can activate a manland before damage to control a creature, it only cares when damage is dealt.
So with the recent decline of Abzan, what a about unbanning SFM (enough of the ridiculous talk about DRS). No real price issue, it does not fit a tier 1 deck (Abzan won't stay there until the next announcement) and is a possible improvement for UWx. It seems quite reasonable.
Things are moving, actually. I was talking with a friend some days ago, and he asked me what to play in the MOCS. I was like ummh I don't have a clue... DS? I mean it's the best deck. So we started going some levels deeper, and I tried to imagine what people would bring if they wanted to snipe DS. Control decks work... vs DS, but they are clunky so I figured if people really wanted to snipe DS they would fall back to Abzan.
And then, the next level is, what would someone bring if they wanted to have a decent shot vs DS AND also beat what people would bring to beat DS? The only deck that came to mind was Dredge. So in the end we didn't reach any conclusion, but the MOCS results came in and both Abzan and Dredge were there in very good numbers.
So what's next? I don't know.
EDIT: So making the risky assumption that those movements are real and here to stay, what beats DS, Junk and Dredge?
BW Tokens beats DS, Junk, Burn, Affinity, and can beat Dredge postboard.
Yeah regarding Blood Moon... just don't. Completely not worth it, screws up the deck way too much and really doesn't do much against Tron. If you wanted to splash and really screw up Tron just run Gaddock Teeg (Mainly joking).
Hey guys, I just added an additional Thoughtseize to my traditional Tokens list and need to cut one card. I am thinking that I could reasonably drop from 24 to 23 land given that I am only running three 4-drops and have an average CMC of just 2.18 (if you consider Spectral Procession a 3-drop in this build). If you think 23 land is inadequate, please let me know why.
I am a little torn about which land to drop if I go that route. My first thought was one of the four Godless Shrines since between the fetches, the Shrines, and the Courtyards, I have a lot of opportunities for dual lands or fetching the right basic (well fetching a Plains if it is before Turn 4 haha). On the other hand, the early game mana requirements required of running Spectral as well as a bunch of hand disruption, Push, Bitterblossom, etc. is pretty intensive, and I have 8 lands that do not fulfill both requirements (basics, Vaults, Windbrisk).So perhaps dropping a basic is the right choice? If so, do I go down to just one Swamp, or drop one of the three Plains?
P.S. @DHamlin -- IIRC, you have briefly mentioned your thoughts on how many Shock Lands we should be running. If you wouldn't mind weighing in on this, it would be appreciated!
My list is actually on the last page near the bottom half. I'm running 23 land and it's fine, just don't run more than 3 colorless land (I run 2 GQ 1 Vault), and I'd say 2 EBT land max (Courtyard doesn't count, I run 2 Vent). 2 Shocks is best imo.
All of this talk of consistently (which has been an interesting discussion btw) has me curious about a couple things.
Generally, when people talk about BW Tokens being an inconsistent deck, are they only referring to matchup inconsistency (i.e. good against other midrange, bad against Tron etc.), or are they also referring to game to game inconsistency as well?
If the latter is true, cards like Street Wraith or Bauble would only benefit us if the ratios of card types we are running / can run are suboptimal. For instance, a couple people have been making a case for 8x Disruption, 8x Removal recently. I'm not convinced that this deck actually needs 8 disruption spells, but for argument's sake, let's say that the deck would actually run better with 9, and we just dont have a ninth disruption spell to fill that spot. Only in a case like that, which IMO does not actually exist for our deck, would cards like Street Wraith actually benefit us. Am I thinking about this correctly?
They're talking about the deck itself being entirely reliant on top decking answers. This leads to a rather large variance in how the deck plays out which other decks don't have to deal with due to card selection, card draw, or tutoring effects. If WotC ever realizes that Grim Tutor is a completely safe standard reprint I'd fully expect Tokens to run a pair.
On a similar but different note, if you haven't seen it yet there's a possible Amonkhet card that was leaked (Dawn/Dusk). If confirmed as real I'm pretty sure we run it just for the first half which is,
"2WW
Destroy all creatures with power 3 or greater."
It would allow us to answer decks like Eldrazi without losing our entire field. The fact the second half is entirely useless for us is rather irrelevant imo.
If Death's Shadow can be considered for banning because of diversity, than what about Tarmogoyf which sees play in more decks and forces less deck building restrictions ?
Tarmogoyf sees play in 3 decks from the top 40 decks in Modern. Right now, half of the Tarmogoyfs in Modern online are played in DS.
Tarmogoyf is the bad creature in DS. Let that sink in. It plays them because it has to play some more creatures and Tarmogoyf is the next best thing. For all intents and purposes, clear for anyone with a decent experience vs DS, Tarmogoyf is a straight worse creature that costs twice as much.
Jund and Junk are going the way of the dodo, they are no longer tier 1. And then, the literal only place Tarmogoyf will have in Modern is being the low-quality sidekick of Death's Shadow.
"Jund and Junk are going the way of the dodo, they are no longer tier 1"
this, a sign of lack of health in the format. people, its happening, let that sink in.
first it could be argued that with the lack of blue in tier 1 the game is fine because we have bgx! but now we dont......
Shadow is GBx, just a bit more aggressive version.
Still putting up enough results here and there mainly, it's pretty common in some areas still cause paper meta change a lot slower. Wouldn't be surprised to see it drop off into Tier 3 or lower next update though.
I would never go above 4-6 Walkers, even with LotV, and 4 Sorin is just overkill. You also should absolutely be running 4 Fatal Push.
Yep, he's a 1-2 of in BW Tokens, 1-2 of in most Abzan Midrange, 2 of in legacy Death and Taxes sideboard, as well as additional places in modern, legacy, vintage, and sees a lot of edh play. $10 is definitely the lowest he'll ever get and I'd personally expect him to bottom out around $15
Beat Mardu Midrange 2-0, Merfolk 2-0, and Skred 2-1, lost to Burn 1-2 (Ensnaring Bridge...)
Zoo, Nahiri, and Sun and Moon are all favorable. Sun and Moon in particular is very good, they lose to Bitterblossom/Souls bad, and I've had multiple players of it tell me just that.
Ad Nauseum and Bogles are more neutral, both lose bad to discard and sideboard.
As for Hatebears it depends on the version of the deck, GW or Mono White are good, Eldrazi and Taxes is very bad.
Celestial Purge hits any Black or Red Permanent. Blood Moon, Nahiri, Koth, Tasigur, Liliana, Night of Souls Betrayal, etc. Just a very solid 1 of hate card. Additionally activated manlands (ex. Raging Ravine) and mountains from Koth's +1 have colors.
Flaying Tendrils is usually going to be better, it's a turn faster, exile is relevant against Company/Dredge/Revolt Zoo, and it's colorless which is rarely relevant but could have applications at some point.
Worship is always going to be a nonbo with Bitterblossom, just a fact of life, but the times it's good it's very good. You can either play around it, lifegain back up (blocking with Lifelink), or just be prepared to blow away blossom if it comes to that. Also remember you can activate a manland before damage to control a creature, it only cares when damage is dealt.
BW Tokens beats DS, Junk, Burn, Affinity, and can beat Dredge postboard.
My list is actually on the last page near the bottom half. I'm running 23 land and it's fine, just don't run more than 3 colorless land (I run 2 GQ 1 Vault), and I'd say 2 EBT land max (Courtyard doesn't count, I run 2 Vent). 2 Shocks is best imo.
They're talking about the deck itself being entirely reliant on top decking answers. This leads to a rather large variance in how the deck plays out which other decks don't have to deal with due to card selection, card draw, or tutoring effects. If WotC ever realizes that Grim Tutor is a completely safe standard reprint I'd fully expect Tokens to run a pair.
On a similar but different note, if you haven't seen it yet there's a possible Amonkhet card that was leaked (Dawn/Dusk). If confirmed as real I'm pretty sure we run it just for the first half which is,
"2WW
Destroy all creatures with power 3 or greater."
It would allow us to answer decks like Eldrazi without losing our entire field. The fact the second half is entirely useless for us is rather irrelevant imo.
Shadow is GBx, just a bit more aggressive version.