I think a utility land is only possible as a 24th land and with 5 or 6 dorks. I played 23 with gavony for a while and it is a little too inconsistent.
The only bant eldrazi list to show up in rptqs had relics and eternal scourge. Very interesting and I think it is particularly well built against Jeskai but I personally don't like relic in the main deck at all.
I think main deck relic is for decks with somewhat limited turn 1 plays. With my list I have 6 dorks and 4 stirrings - so I think that is enough. My take on Eternal Scourge is that its good against Moon and heavy removal decks - I haven't tested it but I agree it is quite interesting - looks like ill order some and start testing. I doubt I could find room for more then 2 and im reluctant to cut any skyspawners - so not sure how its going to fit at this stage.
Having said that my current list uses a Boreal Druid, and sb batterskull to try and allievate some of the issues that Bant faces in the current meta.
I remember getting hammered on here for suggesting that UG was a bad option - it seems people are finally coming around to the fact that Mono- U is superior.
The reason I stated that UG was a bad option was that the green merfolk simply arent good enough to destroy your mana base over - turns out that this is exactly what ppl that play competitively are accepting.
Those that brew and have limited competitive experience will always advocate for 'thinking out of the box' and this is fine and dandy. However, the reality is that seasoned players of the archetype arent the 'dinosaurs' you think we are - we have good reasons based on experience to make the statements that we do.
The manabase is way too inconsistent to be messing around with utility lands - I guess if you run 24 lands but a 23 land build with a utility land is begging for terrible hands and being stuck on colours.
Not blowing up your own creatures is marginal, we run so few and often board out a bunch against the decks where we want wraths. And one extra mana is way less restricting than STW's timing; I'd play cmc2 swords to plowshares over condemn in a heartbeat and the jump from 1 to 2 is much bigger than 4 to 5
STW also seems like a "gotcha" card to me in that it can never be good enough to see common play since it becomes so much worse one the surprise factor is gone. It's very easy to play around
Well that's your opinion - many lists are adopting it and it works well in my experience. UWR has 4 quellers and 3 Geists, maybe a clique - so that is significant. UW control is even playing one copy - and they literally 'run so few creatrues' as you put it.
Saw a cool list that won this past weekend's modern challenge and dropped 3x geist for 1x search for azcanta, 1x archangel avacyn, and 1x ajani vengeant. Was wondering how people felt about this switch. My problem with geist is that tapping out and essentially doing nothing to affect the game can be very bad against many decks- geist also just gets stonewalled by so many blockers. I'm currently in the process of assembling jeskai and am considering building this variant to test. Here's a link to the list: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-11-19
Geist is not great against a lot of decks - but its also essential against many others. Im testing two main deck and one sb atm. Im hoping we get a beefier flash threat at some point - and in that vein im tempted to try Archangel Avycyn - 5 cmc though..argh
I would have thought that the use of Settle was fairly obvious - you get to keep your own board. Instant speed and exile clauses are also very useful. Hallowed burial is not playable at 5 cmc..
Versus GDS you usually name Death's Shadow with Runed Halo - but obviously you can name whatever you like (eg. Tasigur, Gurmag or even Sanp if there are multiple on the board that are causing you problems). GDS is crippled without DS and they cant do anything to remove Halo - GDS players always take it with discard over any other card.
Versus Storm I name Grape Shot (you can name Gifts if you want). Once I have grape shot taken care of (always be mindful that they can bounce Halo), I just need to answer the goblin tokens threat - which can be done with EE, Verdict, Settle, Jace AOT, Staticaster etc.
Versus Affinity - the most common threat to name is Etched Champion. However, it could be Aether Grid depending on the game state. Sometimes if they have a creature with a ton of Ravager counters on it that I cant deal with i'll name that.
Runed Halo has many other applications as others have stated above, namely Valakut, E-Tron threats (TKS, Smasher), Dredge threats (Prized Amalgalm etc)
Affinity has tons of bombs against us post board. Game 1 they can easily go underneath us and land cards that we cant deal with very well - such as Plating or just a bunch of dudes that we have to at some point tap out for to remove satisfactorily or risk being chipped to death or outvalued. As we tap out they jam Etched Champion etc.
I know its an unpopular opinion but I guess everyone on here is just fantastic at magic, always draw the answers they need when they need them and curve out nicely. Affinity is secretly (or not so secretly) the best deck in modern and cards like Stony and Ancient Grudge are critical to beating it - f*ck mox opal and the nonsense that ensues..
Id say it really depends on the Affinity Pilot and how well prepared they are for control decks. I dont think it is a bye at all and there are many games that go pear shaped fast for UWR..
I think you need some sort of combination of Needle's and Stony Silence - incidentally they are also have utility against Gx Tron and Lantern - decks that we are a dog to.
Indeed nothing is stopping you from playing more U cards in UG but most ppl dont because they don't have the slots.
It's not just straight UW, UWR is also very popular and so cards like Kira, Kopala, Copters, Clique are all useful against Control lists. But for sure, nothing is stopping ppl playing more cards that aren't out and out beat sticks. If I was to play Merfolk again next week and play UG (the RUG experiment is probably over) - id be tempted to shave down to around 6-7 green merfolk and add in some number of Copters, Kopala and Kira. I also need to fit in some removal - just not sure how it is going to work playing dismember and not suiciding from the combined manabase and taking 4 dmg from a removal spell.
IMO the meta is full of decks that you have to interact with and the 'stock' UG lists are just begging to be rolled by any deck that you have to either interact with or defend yourself against. Merfolk isnt fast enough to blindly ignore the opponent - like Affinity or Elves does - and hope to win consistently.
This was a small event list configured to test a few silly somewhat out of place cards.
Cards like Kira, Kopola, Smugglers Copters (awesome against UW), MoW, plus the full set of Mutavaults would have been great - also Clique out of the sideboard hurts them. Its hard to play these cards in UG (or ridiculous builds like RUG) because you dont have the space with 8 green merfolk taking up slots or bolts as well in this case.
UG doesnt play more card advantage - the card selection off Branchwalker is pretty meh - its far better off Copter. Additionally UG lists dont even bother trying to interact anymore - Mono-U is in a far better position to play a reactive role and defend itself.
TEMUR Merfolk report. I increased the red mana sources to 9. Green sources at 12.
0-2 UW Control - was really hard to play around Verdict and still get in for damage due to Walls and Gideon Trials. Plenty of times id get verdicted with 1 dude on the board anyway. Field of Ruins kept hosing my surviving manlands. Sided most of the bolts out game 2/3. Ive won often on mono-blue before - this version just doesnt have any grind potential..
2-1 Burn - Bolt actually killed Lavamancer and Eidolon at clutch times. I thought the mana base was going to wreck me but my opponent got seas'd in one game and drew too many lands in another.
2-0 Living End - Bolt closed out a game I was prob going to win anyway.
Would have loved to play more creature centric decks (especially Affinity or Humans) - will I play it again? Only at low stakes events. Its far from proof with such a small sample size but it goes to show that pretty much any version of merfolk can potentially win matches..
//Creatures
2 Cursecatcher
3 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
To be honest, if I ever move away from maindeck Masters, I'm increasingly thinking I want mainboard counterspells again. Being cold to all sorts of random stuff because I'm basically just a creature deck is getting a bit tiresome. It feels like I would breeze through so many Game 1s if I just had some maindeck Negates or Unified Wills. I may try that, actually.
I think main deck relic is for decks with somewhat limited turn 1 plays. With my list I have 6 dorks and 4 stirrings - so I think that is enough. My take on Eternal Scourge is that its good against Moon and heavy removal decks - I haven't tested it but I agree it is quite interesting - looks like ill order some and start testing. I doubt I could find room for more then 2 and im reluctant to cut any skyspawners - so not sure how its going to fit at this stage.
Having said that my current list uses a Boreal Druid, and sb batterskull to try and allievate some of the issues that Bant faces in the current meta.
Current List
//Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Brushland
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Forest
1 Plains
//Creatures
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 Rhonas the indomitable (Shave 1x skyspawner and 1x Rhonas for 2x eternal scourge)
//Dorks
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Boreal Druid
//Other
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 2 Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 Worship
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Settle the Wreckage
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
I guess we better tippy toe around you then - so precious
The reason I stated that UG was a bad option was that the green merfolk simply arent good enough to destroy your mana base over - turns out that this is exactly what ppl that play competitively are accepting.
Those that brew and have limited competitive experience will always advocate for 'thinking out of the box' and this is fine and dandy. However, the reality is that seasoned players of the archetype arent the 'dinosaurs' you think we are - we have good reasons based on experience to make the statements that we do.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FishMTG/comments/7fr3dp/feeling_like_ug_is_more_trouble_than_its_worth/?st=JAIN81PS&sh=23fd0399
Further to this Nikachu is of a similar mind regarding this problem.
EDIT: furthermore you cannot play Dismember in a UG list - another huge problem with abandoning the well proven mono U list
Well that's your opinion - many lists are adopting it and it works well in my experience. UWR has 4 quellers and 3 Geists, maybe a clique - so that is significant. UW control is even playing one copy - and they literally 'run so few creatrues' as you put it.
Geist is not great against a lot of decks - but its also essential against many others. Im testing two main deck and one sb atm. Im hoping we get a beefier flash threat at some point - and in that vein im tempted to try Archangel Avycyn - 5 cmc though..argh
Versus Storm I name Grape Shot (you can name Gifts if you want). Once I have grape shot taken care of (always be mindful that they can bounce Halo), I just need to answer the goblin tokens threat - which can be done with EE, Verdict, Settle, Jace AOT, Staticaster etc.
Versus Affinity - the most common threat to name is Etched Champion. However, it could be Aether Grid depending on the game state. Sometimes if they have a creature with a ton of Ravager counters on it that I cant deal with i'll name that.
Runed Halo has many other applications as others have stated above, namely Valakut, E-Tron threats (TKS, Smasher), Dredge threats (Prized Amalgalm etc)
I know its an unpopular opinion but I guess everyone on here is just fantastic at magic, always draw the answers they need when they need them and curve out nicely. Affinity is secretly (or not so secretly) the best deck in modern and cards like Stony and Ancient Grudge are critical to beating it - f*ck mox opal and the nonsense that ensues..
I think you need some sort of combination of Needle's and Stony Silence - incidentally they are also have utility against Gx Tron and Lantern - decks that we are a dog to.
It's not just straight UW, UWR is also very popular and so cards like Kira, Kopala, Copters, Clique are all useful against Control lists. But for sure, nothing is stopping ppl playing more cards that aren't out and out beat sticks. If I was to play Merfolk again next week and play UG (the RUG experiment is probably over) - id be tempted to shave down to around 6-7 green merfolk and add in some number of Copters, Kopala and Kira. I also need to fit in some removal - just not sure how it is going to work playing dismember and not suiciding from the combined manabase and taking 4 dmg from a removal spell.
IMO the meta is full of decks that you have to interact with and the 'stock' UG lists are just begging to be rolled by any deck that you have to either interact with or defend yourself against. Merfolk isnt fast enough to blindly ignore the opponent - like Affinity or Elves does - and hope to win consistently.
Cards like Kira, Kopola, Smugglers Copters (awesome against UW), MoW, plus the full set of Mutavaults would have been great - also Clique out of the sideboard hurts them. Its hard to play these cards in UG (or ridiculous builds like RUG) because you dont have the space with 8 green merfolk taking up slots or bolts as well in this case.
UG doesnt play more card advantage - the card selection off Branchwalker is pretty meh - its far better off Copter. Additionally UG lists dont even bother trying to interact anymore - Mono-U is in a far better position to play a reactive role and defend itself.
0-2 UW Control - was really hard to play around Verdict and still get in for damage due to Walls and Gideon Trials. Plenty of times id get verdicted with 1 dude on the board anyway. Field of Ruins kept hosing my surviving manlands. Sided most of the bolts out game 2/3. Ive won often on mono-blue before - this version just doesnt have any grind potential..
2-1 Burn - Bolt actually killed Lavamancer and Eidolon at clutch times. I thought the mana base was going to wreck me but my opponent got seas'd in one game and drew too many lands in another.
2-0 Living End - Bolt closed out a game I was prob going to win anyway.
Would have loved to play more creature centric decks (especially Affinity or Humans) - will I play it again? Only at low stakes events. Its far from proof with such a small sample size but it goes to show that pretty much any version of merfolk can potentially win matches..
//Mana
2 Island
4 Botanical Sanctum
1 Spirebluff Canal
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
3 Mutavault
//Creatures
2 Cursecatcher
3 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
//Non-creature spells
4 Æther Vial
4 Spreading Seas
4 Lightning Bolt
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Dispel
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 Unified Will
SB: 2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 1 Sea's Claim
Perhaps V. Clique main?