In the word cloud I see Sell-Sword...oh god, I hope it isn't Sell-Sword Brute...maybe as an ally? On the Gatekeeper, zomg! I love this card. GoM GoM GoM! Lol I just got done watching Ghostbusters on cable...I'm gonna call this Gozer! hehe
Bloodghast is better than black knight by a long shot. Black Knight dies to Volcanic Fallout, Infest, etc. Bloodghast gets back up and swings. Every time I play a land I'm going to have "Get back up!" from myth going off in the back of my head. Seriously.
I think that Hideous end is much better than terminate in this deck. You won't be dropping removal until turn 4-5 anyway. If you are, generally you're going to use bolt instead of hideous. Hideous also has the added effect of hitting them for 2, which in sligh can win you the game. Remember: In sligh, every card that can win you the game should win you the game.
I don't like hell's thunder. Just on principle. 3 drops should be removal or things that can simply win out. Add to that the fact that it costs 1RR, and most of your double color cost stuff is BB, and it just becomes hard to drop turn 3 which is when it needs to swing in. The high unearth also makes it not worth it.
Blightning was good because if had reach, and a LOT of it. Sligh also has to run reach. Your creatures are at best going to get your opponent under 10 on turn 3. You've got to drop him from 10 to 0 on turn 4 or 5 before the baneslayer hits the table and says "YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR".
If better reach gets printed it takes the place of fallout.
I love the Nighthawk, but I just don't feel like it's a Sligh card. While Fetch will help Landfall, do you think twenty land is going to be enough to trigger Landfall as much as you'd like? I really think you should test this build. The few games I've tested with your list, the Landfall doesn't seem to happen enough for me. Also, Black Knight is far from a weak two-drop. Wait until you test against MWA or MWC. It's a godsend. The Hell's Thunders also help greatly in the face of Day of Judgement. We'll see, though. I continue to test both builds, using Dalkon's manabase over yours, or course. Four Peaks is a bit much for a deck full of one-drops.
Yes I realize. If there is not a pro-black creature with toughness >3 in Zen then I will probably replace dark temper with Lightning Bolt as it does the same job vs Sable Stag and can go to the dome if appropriate. The point tho is that you need an out vs Pro black creatures other than Fleshbag Marauder. Its just not reliable enough.
You are missing the point, though. With Nocturnus in midnight mode, your creatures will outrace his 3/3. Swinging for 12 is better than swinging for 3. You creatures will fly over his Stag. Having a Lightning Bolt on top, makes your creatures terrible by comparison, and you won't outrace them that way. You can get hit by Stag an average of six times before you die. Having Nocturnus active for just one turn can make his flavor text a reality..."Your life will set with the sun."
Ball Lightning is only missing because triple red is harder to hit consistently without Cairns, Hovel and Summit. As far as a weaker Blightning, having 2 incredible one drops makes all the difference. I tried the Hackblade, but remember with the current decklist, the Borderpost is the only thing that turns it on if it replaces the Remains.
You don't wanna side in cards that aren't black, it turns off Nocturnus even more. I've been playing a B/ Nocturnus deck for a while now, and you don't want cards that aren't at least part-black. Fleshbag Marauder is the edict I use to kill Stag, but really they are usually behind if you're curve goes right. The vampire deck I've been playing so far looks like this, updated with ZEN after.
A few notes on the decklists: Viscera Dragger and Sign in Blood are there to ensure Vampire Nocturnus is always in the 'dark.' In the list I play currently, having it always nighttime ensures that the massive amounts of life I play are never enough of a problem, because my opponent dies quicker than I do. Think Flesh Reaver. You both take a lot of damage, but they will die before you do. The sideboard in the second deck contains Relics because a lot of people I test with are trying to build Iona reanimator decks. Fleshbag Marauder takes care of pro-black fellas, while Hideous End plays backup to Doom Blade. Pithing Needle shuts down Planeswalkers as well as screwing over people here that seem to rely on their fetchlands too much. I thought about running them in here for deck-thinning, but sometimes I name the ones I would play with. It's a change I make frequently. Anyways, those are my experiences with Vampires, test and let me know what you find out.
This deck seems ridiculously powerful in testing, so far. I've played it against a slew of post-rotation decks using the current spoiler, and a gauntlet of the existing decks and it's pretty powerful. The only issue I seem to run into sometimes is Spectral, but that's leaving anyway. Screw that card! LoL!
So are we gonna call this guy "Slackey" or "Mackey"? Slackey is similar to a lackey...but on the other hand, Mackey because he is the Mack of lackeys? LOL...in testing him so far, I love turn 1: Guide, Opp at 18. turn 2: Slackey, Opp at 16, turn 3: Chieftain, Opp at 7, Drop 2 SGC...lol...Done it twice in testing, talk about a blow out!
Yes, that's the point. The Landfall ability on Blood Extractor returns it to play when its in your graveyard. The creature is quite awesome, as it is very difficult to deal with and has a good chance of coming back on your turn. One of the best Black two drops since Nantuko Shade.
We'll have to see if reaches that level of power, but don't forget Dark Confidant. He is a powerhouse.
I've 99.99999999999999% percent this is right, but I cannot find documentation anywhere in rules question articles. If I Smother a morph creature such as Gathan Raiders, and then they are morphed, Smother is countered on resolution due to illegal target, correct? I'm still in amazement of how many Gathan Raiders I've seen in Legacy testing lately, lol. I used to play them in Standard and have a foil set, but seriously...
IMO the best part about his ultimate is that, even if it drops him to 1 loyalty, there's a guarentee he won't be attacked next turn.
EDIT: Off-topic, but I just realized why the Zendikar symbol bugs me so much... it looks like some janky little basic shape someone made in MSE just to have random symbol. Come on, Wizards, you can do better...
I thought the Zendikar symbol is supposed to look mathematical. In one of the articles on mtg.com I think it mentioned there are floating hedrons(hedra? sp) everywhere on Zendikar. A hedron is a geometric shape consisting of the number of sides expressed by its prefix, i.e. Tetrahedron. That's how I interpret it, anyway.
Back on topic, Sorin's second ability seems to be useful in activating Blood Extractor's haste, and both of his other abilities are quite potent in gameplay. Testing Sorin has been fun and powerful so far.
Also, for fun, here is a list of cards that get better with Sorin's 2nd ability.
Also, last night after I went to lie down to go to bed I just realized something. Sorin's ability that sets an opponent's life total to 10. Maybe he is meant to setup the Extractor. Perhaps there will be more vampires that become better when the opponent is at 10 or less life. Maybe that's Vampire Nighthawk's last few lines. Anyways, the point of this post is that Sorin triggers extractions!
Uh, did you guys forget Auntie's Snitch? Remember how much play that saw, even when rogue decks were popular? I was excited about it too at first, as I love Netherspirit and the like, but this guy is a 2/1 with no evasion. Sure, if vampires do become good, this will be a 2 drop in it (with Child of Night being the BETTER 2 drop IMO) but Noctuornus is quite a poor lord, mainly because his ability is iffy - you could just fizzle alot, and does force you to play mono black (which isn't too bad) but yeah I remember playing him in limited, and he was just a dumb hill giant alot of the time. I'd play Terramorphic in the deck to thin your land, despite the landfall ability of this guy.
That's what Sign in Blood and Viscera Dragger are for. I've been testing those two cards with Nocturnus since it was spoiled, and I must say, it's nighttime most of the time with those in the deck.
I love this card but I don't think it'll see wide competitive play. Here's my detailed analysis.
Mana Cost:
6 mana and triple black ensures that it'll only fit a narrow range of decks. No aggro decks will play this for sure. Garruk is a good example of a card that's playable in a wide range of decks. Being 4 mana, it fits aggro, mid-range, and recently a G/U Time Warp deck chose Garruk as the win condition. With the loss of filter lands, I can't picture BBB being easy for decks that aren't dedicated to 1 or 2 colors. 6 mana also means that u probably don't want 4 copies in a deck.
Abilities:
Of all the PW abilities ever printed, I like Sorin's #1 the best. In a control deck, you won't have to waste any removal on creatures with less than 2 toughness if you're almost ready to cast Sorin. And lifegain has become more relevant lately. Sorin acts as removal, win condition and position recovery. However, note that by turn 6, you can expect your opponent to have something way bigger than 2 toughness. So I wouldn't rate this ability that highly for removal purposes.
The 2nd ability has more narrow applications. I imagine it'll only be used when a control deck is ready to go from "controlling" to winning. Even then, I'd seriously consider building up for the ultimate rather than setting the clock to 5 turns. The last ability you can think of as costing only 5 loyalty. After taking opponent's turn, it's your turn again and Sorin can use +2 ability.
Playability:
Lets face it, PWs need something to protect them, usually creatures. Ajani is played in tokens/kithkin decks. Garruk is green with lots of creatures to shield etc. I think Sorin works extremely well with creatures due to its second ability. Set life to 10 then swing with whatever and your opponent should be nearly dead. The problem is that it's heavily black. And if you want to be control, then you probably aren't going to drop many creatures. Black doesn't have many good creatures that fit in a control deck, at least not yet. Have to see what black cards Zendikar brings. MBC has been borderline playable for a while. It needs something to push it to tier 1.
Splashing an enemy color is most likely going to be harder. Without the filter/vivid/reflecting pool lands, there are no enemy color duals. With 2 block's worth of lands gone, I doubt Zendikar (1 set) will release enough lands to make playing enemy colors viable. Except for green of course which is always able to color fix itself.
If that rare Red land is any indication, Zendikar will push for mono color. So hopefully they will print some good black cards.
Price:
Due to all the above, I expect Sorin to see play only in a few decks, namely MBC, UB control, GB control/midrange, if at all. This will definitely mean the price won't hit $20 like Garruk once did or Elspeth.
The coolness factor definitely will ensure it never reaches below $5 like chandra did. I think it'll settle at a price similar to Nicol Bolas PW.
Overall I think Sorin is an excellent card. It's not going to be super expensive for a mythic rare, it's very cool, the art is good, and the power level is satisfying.
Extended with Demigod...drop 'em to 10. Play 1 and get another from the yard...
What if his text box reads:
Double Strike, Haste
Landfall - Put a +1/+1 counter on ~this~. Then each creature with a +1/+1
counter on it gains Haste until end of turn.
I love the Nighthawk, but I just don't feel like it's a Sligh card. While Fetch will help Landfall, do you think twenty land is going to be enough to trigger Landfall as much as you'd like? I really think you should test this build. The few games I've tested with your list, the Landfall doesn't seem to happen enough for me. Also, Black Knight is far from a weak two-drop. Wait until you test against MWA or MWC. It's a godsend. The Hell's Thunders also help greatly in the face of Day of Judgement. We'll see, though. I continue to test both builds, using Dalkon's manabase over yours, or course. Four Peaks is a bit much for a deck full of one-drops.
You are missing the point, though. With Nocturnus in midnight mode, your creatures will outrace his 3/3. Swinging for 12 is better than swinging for 3. You creatures will fly over his Stag. Having a Lightning Bolt on top, makes your creatures terrible by comparison, and you won't outrace them that way. You can get hit by Stag an average of six times before you die. Having Nocturnus active for just one turn can make his flavor text a reality..."Your life will set with the sun."
04 Black Knight
04 Child of Night
04 Viscera Dragger
04 Vampire Aristocrat
04 Vampire Nocturnus
Spells
04 Thoughtseize
04 Terminate
04 Blightning
02 Sign in Blood
04 Bitterblossom
Lands
10 Swamp
04 Graven Cairns
04 Dragonskull Summit
04 Auntie's Hovel
04 Anathemancer
04 Doom Blade
03 Infest
02 Duress
02 Thought Hemorrhage
04 Vampire Lacerator
04 Bloodghast
04 Child of Night
04 Vampire Nighthawk
04 Vampire Nocturnus
04 Viscera Dragger
04 Duress
04 Doom Blade
04 Sign in Blood
02 Tendrils of Corruption
Lands
20 Swamp
02 Gargoyle Castle
04 Fleshbag Marauder
04 Pithing Needle
04 Relic of Progenitus
03 Hideous End
A few notes on the decklists: Viscera Dragger and Sign in Blood are there to ensure Vampire Nocturnus is always in the 'dark.' In the list I play currently, having it always nighttime ensures that the massive amounts of life I play are never enough of a problem, because my opponent dies quicker than I do. Think Flesh Reaver. You both take a lot of damage, but they will die before you do. The sideboard in the second deck contains Relics because a lot of people I test with are trying to build Iona reanimator decks. Fleshbag Marauder takes care of pro-black fellas, while Hideous End plays backup to Doom Blade. Pithing Needle shuts down Planeswalkers as well as screwing over people here that seem to rely on their fetchlands too much. I thought about running them in here for deck-thinning, but sometimes I name the ones I would play with. It's a change I make frequently. Anyways, those are my experiences with Vampires, test and let me know what you find out.
04 Goblin Guide
04 Vampire Lacerator
04 Black Knight
04 Hellspark Elemental
04 Hell's Thunder
04 Shambling Remains
Spells
04 Lightning Bolt
04 Terminate
04 Blightning
02 Banefire
09 Mountain
07 Swamp
04 Dragonskull Summit
02 Teetering Peaks
04 Duress
04 Pithing Needle
03 Goblin Ruinblaster
03 Doom Blade
02 Thought Hemorrhage
One note: Bloodghast is great, but it would be more amazing in a Vampire deck, or a deck that has a lot of Landfall in it already.
We'll have to see if reaches that level of power, but don't forget Dark Confidant. He is a powerhouse.
I thought the Zendikar symbol is supposed to look mathematical. In one of the articles on mtg.com I think it mentioned there are floating hedrons(hedra? sp) everywhere on Zendikar. A hedron is a geometric shape consisting of the number of sides expressed by its prefix, i.e. Tetrahedron. That's how I interpret it, anyway.
Back on topic, Sorin's second ability seems to be useful in activating Blood Extractor's haste, and both of his other abilities are quite potent in gameplay. Testing Sorin has been fun and powerful so far.
Also, for fun, here is a list of cards that get better with Sorin's 2nd ability.
01 Hidetsugu's Second Rite
01 Opal Avenger
01 Delusions of Mediocrity
It turns Mediocrity into another donate target!
That's what Sign in Blood and Viscera Dragger are for. I've been testing those two cards with Nocturnus since it was spoiled, and I must say, it's nighttime most of the time with those in the deck.
04 Child of Night
04 Blood Extractor
04 Vampire Aristocrat
04 Viscera Dragger
04 Vampire Nocturnus
02 Rotting Rats
04 Doom Blade
04 Sign in Blood
04 Tendrils of Corruption
04 Duress
Lands
04 Gargoyle Castle
18 Swamp
04 Black Knight
04 Hideous End
04 Relic of Progenitus
03 Pithing Needle
Another deck I have, using multi-colored cards, works just as well because they are still Black, thus they still trigger the Nocturnus.
04 Child of Night
04 Blood Extractor
04 Vampire Aristocrat
04 Vampire Nocturnus
04 Viscera Dragger
02 Black Knight
04 Duress
04 Terminate
04 Blightning
04 Sign in Blood
Lands
14 Swamp
04 Dragonskull Summit
04 Mountain
04 Anathemancer
04 Goblin Outlander
03 Pithing Needle
02 Black Knight
02 Thought Hemorrhage
This also enables some other sideboard options, as you can see. Anyways, there are some ideas I've been mulling around. Just thought I'd share them.
Extended with Demigod...drop 'em to 10. Play 1 and get another from the yard...
Double Strike, Haste
Landfall - Put a +1/+1 counter on ~this~. Then each creature with a +1/+1
counter on it gains Haste until end of turn.