It's bad in the sense that it can make it hard to race in the face of Soul's Attendant and Soul Warden. Especially when they have multiples. Padding their life total for the elementals usually isn't worth it. Yes, I agree that you can make enough elementals to make enough big swings to kill them (and having unlimited chump blockers for the Pridemate is nice), but a Serra Ascendant can usually race you. It's pretty easy for them to have by the time you can resolve a master because at the same time they'll also be able to cast Ranger of Eos to find it.
Tbh, the Soul Sisters matchup isn't spectacular. I don't beat it as often as I'd like. I've often lost to really early Serra Ascendant 6/6 Flying lifelink beats and they usually have Ghostly Prison (sometimes Worship and Wrath of God even) out of the board. It's even more annoying because Master of Waves is actually awful in the face of multiple Soul's Attendant/Soul Warden.
One Fish player at an RPTQ near me made Top 4. I don't like his list...at all...
Props to him though...I kept losing PPTQs in top 8 and couldn't even qualify.
I actually think his list looks just fine with 1 exception; his mana base. I generally prefer 20, but this is an old argument and we've seen a number of 19 land decks have success. But only 3 mutas and 2x GQ? Pass.
I've run GQ main before, but I'm a strong believer in needing 20+ lands to do it. It's bad enough having to sacrifice your own GQ to filter your opponents lands, but half the time you wind up targeting your own land to find a 2nd blue source. It was fine in Eldrazi Winter or if you are in a Tron heavy meta, but I don't think this is the right time for it.
I didn't like 2 Kiras nor did I like 2 Pierces, but there are matchups and metagames where those being in your deck are great. I didn't think the TX RPTQ metagame was going to be one of them, but it obviously worked for him.
But the reason I REALLY don't like it was the manabase. I don't think it's the right time for GQ either. We aren't usually worried about lands because we can Spreading Seas them. I think our mana is kind of important in the earlier turns and by the time you are comfortable with Quartering them (doing so earlier is USUALLY too much a tempo loss in my experience), which is why I gravitate more toward Tectonic Edge or Sea's Claim if I choose to play any land hate. GQ is usaully the last thing I'd consider where you need that type of effect.
@Lil-Bolas; Congrats to him, but still green with envy (not enough to play the color though )
One Fish player at an RPTQ near me made Top 4. I don't like his list...at all...
Props to him though...I kept losing PPTQs in top 8 and couldn't even qualify.
I don't know why he tried fighting you on the Vapor Snag in response to his fetch. You get a chance to in between him cracking the fetch and going to get a land to respond. Should of just called a judge.
Yea idk either. Some people...
If he would have kept arguing, I would have definitely called the judge.
I’ve spent a lot of time the past couple of months doing decently at events, but then started doing progressively worse prompting me to take a little bit of a Magic break. I’ve tried to play other decks, but keep coming back to the one I’m ultimately most happy playing (as well as most comfortable playing), which is merfolk. This said, I do think the deck isn’t at its best right now and I would like to have another back-up deck, but I’m as stubborn as I am stupid: I want to do well with fish.
I played Grixis Delver to a pretty poor finish at the Last Chance Qualifier on Saturday and since I had to give my friend the cards I borrowed back, I moved to playing merfolk on Sunday for the IQ (eagerly, I might add). I often joke about doing goofy things with the lists I play (I want to play Blood Moon next ), but never actually deviating from my stock lists (which may or may not be different from your stock lists).
Today, I decided to play 2 Vendilion Cliques. I play it in Legacy Merfolk, where it’s a freakin’ house. I, as a player in particular place a premium on information. From flirting with Jund, I noticed the ability to make more informed decisions based on what was in the opponent’s hand so I decided to stop saying I would and actually doing it. I cut a Reejerey and a Kira: Reejerey because I hate having my 3 drop just die and get no value and Kira because it plays a similar enough role; being a 3 mana flier that’s good vs midrange decks. I particularly like having information against these decks because knowing what’s in their hand lets you get blown out less often by a removal spell and a block for example.
On to the report:
Round 1: Affinity
G1: As he cast a Mox Opal and an Ornithopter, I knew I was in for a bad time. He landed turn 1 Steel Overseer and this one was over pretty quick.
G2: I tried to mulligan to find a Hurkyl’s Recall. Didn’t find it, but I kept a decent hand. I drew lands the rest of the game and he had a pretty fast start again that was resilient to what I had. Not the start of the day I was looking for.
0-1
Round 2: Affinity
G1: Pretty similar to the guy’s start G1 in the last match except this time I was ready with the Dismember on the Overseer and I had a much faster start.
G2: This guy put the wrong pile into his deck after sideboarding. We called a judge and he took a forced Mulligan. Poor guy; I opened 2 Hurkyl’s Recalls and it felt like I was winning this game no matter what.
1-1
Round 3: Bant Coralhelm Midrange
G1: He starts off with what appear to be normal Naya Company things. I’m a little behind at first. I Clique him and take his Fiend Hunter (which would have been insane by the way). I battle back with 2 Harbingers and land a Master of Waves with 11 tokens that he cannot answer.
G2: I cliqued him again and took his Coralhelm (which would have killed me immediately ). He has creatures in his hand, what does that mean? He’s leaving up Company. He topdecked 2 of them and I died. Glorious.
G3: I keep drawing Clique in this match O_O this time I took a Collected Company and it, my Tidebinder, and Lords are enough to kill him.
2-1
Round 4: UR Kiln Fiend
G1: I keep a Vial 1 Lander and he is just pecking me with Swiftspear every turn. He fetches to 1 and I Snag in response. He tries to protest saying I couldn’t Snag because he had already picked up his library to search. I’m firm about responding to his fetch with Vapor Snag (not like he gave me a chance to respond) and he consults his hand and just Stubborn Denials it anyway. I didn’t have a mana up to pay so that went through. He attacks with his Swiftspear and I know he pretty much has to tap out into my Cursecatchers or he dies. I make a double block with Lords (my 3-4 tapped creatures are lethal with him at 1). After a flurry of spells he goes Temur Battle Rage and my double Cursecatcher counter it and he dies.
G2: Don’t remember this game that well. I just remember I kept taking pecks from a Swiftspear, which got Tidebinder’d and Dismembering a Thing in the Ice. I extend my hand and he says, “Screw it, I’m not shaking your hand” then leaves.
3-1
Round 5: UR Kiln Fiend
G1: Guy is new to the deck, but pretty much anything he could have done didn’t matter. I had a good Islandwalk clock and it seemed like he had trouble flipping his Things. He eventually flips 1 and I just attack for Islandwalk lethal with a Mutavault that didn’t get bounced.
G2: He couldn’t flip Thing at all and he kind of just sat there and died. Seemed like he was kind of tilted because he didn’t know what lines to take due to inexperience.
4-1
Drew into Top 8 and went in as 6th Seed.
Top 8: Ad Nauseam
G1: He’s on the play as he’s 3rd Seed. I principally keep 1 Land Vial hands with Silvergills in them on the draw. I never drew a 2nd or 3rd land and I’m pretty sure the Vendilion Clique I opened with would have been insane, but he kills me on Turn 3 instead. #Modern
G2: He pretty much had 1 more Ad Nauseam than I had counterspell. Sucks. I made some mistakes, but they didn’t matter.
1. You shouldn’t play out ALL your lands because if you draw Kira, you can do the play that counters the Lightning Storm play. This guy knew about the Kira trick after I asked him so that didn’t matter (I did draw Kira and felt stupid after I played my 5th or 6th land).
2.On the turn he killed me, a Lotus Bloom was coming off Suspend and I should have Hurkyl’s Recalled it right away because I was out of interaction at that point (He tried to go off on my turn, prompting me to use my only counterspell) besides that card. It would make it so he couldn’t kill me if Ad Nauseam was on top of his library. In this scenario, he already had it so again, it didn’t matter.
Made Top 8 at the IQ yesterday and lost to Ad Nauseam Report and list coming later. I was bored of my standard lists and played 2 Vendilion Clique in my list over a Kira and a Reejerey and they were great.
I would agree us running them over happens more of the time, but I suppose what I was trying to convey is the matchup is definitely losable. I would also agree and think aggro city is more of our concern right now because that's more of what's representative of what's going on in modern.
I'm more referring to that point when you start to draw lands and they start to draw removal for the creatures you haven't even drawn yet because you're empty (admit it, this happens to all of us). They drew enough removal early on to kill nost of your early assault while you're only left with a Harbinger or 2, which they aren't really concerned about. This generally feels like how control tends to beat you if it beats you it feels like. It doesn't matter if they're not putting any pressure on your life total if you have no creatures to swing with because they still have the inevitability of eventually finding something and it will be big when they do. If you find something it doesn't even matter because they already have the removal spell for it (Unless it's Master of Waves in skreds case because it's un killable).
I will say the Relic package in the version of the deck that won is quite poor vs us and Eternal Skirge is not something we are very concerned about.
While I still agree it's generally favorable, I'm not sure a deck with 8 1 mana removal spells and 3 Anger of the Gods maindeck won't NOT have a fistful of removal spells because that's what the deck is about: to be chock full of them.
The versions of Skred being played these days are a bit softer to Merfolk than the ones that were played a few months back, which tended to feature more removal and creatures with fewer PWs and accelerators. Those versions are still very problematic.
Right, but it feels like you can still easily lose if they have 4-5 Skreds/Bolts since they play the full 8.
Their removal heavy draws are a beating; 3 or 4 Bolts/Skreds (even some Angers) can usually be enough to put you away if they back it up with a walker pretty quickly, but in general the matchup seems to be favorable. It kind of reminds me of Jeskai; you can still easily lose if they draw a lot of removal.
I didn't like 2 Kiras nor did I like 2 Pierces, but there are matchups and metagames where those being in your deck are great. I didn't think the TX RPTQ metagame was going to be one of them, but it obviously worked for him.
But the reason I REALLY don't like it was the manabase. I don't think it's the right time for GQ either. We aren't usually worried about lands because we can Spreading Seas them. I think our mana is kind of important in the earlier turns and by the time you are comfortable with Quartering them (doing so earlier is USUALLY too much a tempo loss in my experience), which is why I gravitate more toward Tectonic Edge or Sea's Claim if I choose to play any land hate. GQ is usaully the last thing I'd consider where you need that type of effect.
@Lil-Bolas; Congrats to him, but still green with envy (not enough to play the color though )
One Fish player at an RPTQ near me made Top 4. I don't like his list...at all...
Props to him though...I kept losing PPTQs in top 8 and couldn't even qualify.
Yea idk either. Some people...
If he would have kept arguing, I would have definitely called the judge.
List: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/merfolk-1211/
I’ve spent a lot of time the past couple of months doing decently at events, but then started doing progressively worse prompting me to take a little bit of a Magic break. I’ve tried to play other decks, but keep coming back to the one I’m ultimately most happy playing (as well as most comfortable playing), which is merfolk. This said, I do think the deck isn’t at its best right now and I would like to have another back-up deck, but I’m as stubborn as I am stupid: I want to do well with fish.
I played Grixis Delver to a pretty poor finish at the Last Chance Qualifier on Saturday and since I had to give my friend the cards I borrowed back, I moved to playing merfolk on Sunday for the IQ (eagerly, I might add). I often joke about doing goofy things with the lists I play (I want to play Blood Moon next ), but never actually deviating from my stock lists (which may or may not be different from your stock lists).
Today, I decided to play 2 Vendilion Cliques. I play it in Legacy Merfolk, where it’s a freakin’ house. I, as a player in particular place a premium on information. From flirting with Jund, I noticed the ability to make more informed decisions based on what was in the opponent’s hand so I decided to stop saying I would and actually doing it. I cut a Reejerey and a Kira: Reejerey because I hate having my 3 drop just die and get no value and Kira because it plays a similar enough role; being a 3 mana flier that’s good vs midrange decks. I particularly like having information against these decks because knowing what’s in their hand lets you get blown out less often by a removal spell and a block for example.
On to the report:
Round 1: Affinity
G1: As he cast a Mox Opal and an Ornithopter, I knew I was in for a bad time. He landed turn 1 Steel Overseer and this one was over pretty quick.
G2: I tried to mulligan to find a Hurkyl’s Recall. Didn’t find it, but I kept a decent hand. I drew lands the rest of the game and he had a pretty fast start again that was resilient to what I had. Not the start of the day I was looking for.
0-1
Round 2: Affinity
G1: Pretty similar to the guy’s start G1 in the last match except this time I was ready with the Dismember on the Overseer and I had a much faster start.
G2: This guy put the wrong pile into his deck after sideboarding. We called a judge and he took a forced Mulligan. Poor guy; I opened 2 Hurkyl’s Recalls and it felt like I was winning this game no matter what.
1-1
Round 3: Bant Coralhelm Midrange
G1: He starts off with what appear to be normal Naya Company things. I’m a little behind at first. I Clique him and take his Fiend Hunter (which would have been insane by the way). I battle back with 2 Harbingers and land a Master of Waves with 11 tokens that he cannot answer.
G2: I cliqued him again and took his Coralhelm (which would have killed me immediately ). He has creatures in his hand, what does that mean? He’s leaving up Company. He topdecked 2 of them and I died. Glorious.
G3: I keep drawing Clique in this match O_O this time I took a Collected Company and it, my Tidebinder, and Lords are enough to kill him.
2-1
Round 4: UR Kiln Fiend
G1: I keep a Vial 1 Lander and he is just pecking me with Swiftspear every turn. He fetches to 1 and I Snag in response. He tries to protest saying I couldn’t Snag because he had already picked up his library to search. I’m firm about responding to his fetch with Vapor Snag (not like he gave me a chance to respond) and he consults his hand and just Stubborn Denials it anyway. I didn’t have a mana up to pay so that went through. He attacks with his Swiftspear and I know he pretty much has to tap out into my Cursecatchers or he dies. I make a double block with Lords (my 3-4 tapped creatures are lethal with him at 1). After a flurry of spells he goes Temur Battle Rage and my double Cursecatcher counter it and he dies.
G2: Don’t remember this game that well. I just remember I kept taking pecks from a Swiftspear, which got Tidebinder’d and Dismembering a Thing in the Ice. I extend my hand and he says, “Screw it, I’m not shaking your hand” then leaves.
3-1
Round 5: UR Kiln Fiend
G1: Guy is new to the deck, but pretty much anything he could have done didn’t matter. I had a good Islandwalk clock and it seemed like he had trouble flipping his Things. He eventually flips 1 and I just attack for Islandwalk lethal with a Mutavault that didn’t get bounced.
G2: He couldn’t flip Thing at all and he kind of just sat there and died. Seemed like he was kind of tilted because he didn’t know what lines to take due to inexperience.
4-1
Drew into Top 8 and went in as 6th Seed.
Top 8: Ad Nauseam
G1: He’s on the play as he’s 3rd Seed. I principally keep 1 Land Vial hands with Silvergills in them on the draw. I never drew a 2nd or 3rd land and I’m pretty sure the Vendilion Clique I opened with would have been insane, but he kills me on Turn 3 instead. #Modern
G2: He pretty much had 1 more Ad Nauseam than I had counterspell. Sucks. I made some mistakes, but they didn’t matter.
1. You shouldn’t play out ALL your lands because if you draw Kira, you can do the play that counters the Lightning Storm play. This guy knew about the Kira trick after I asked him so that didn’t matter (I did draw Kira and felt stupid after I played my 5th or 6th land).
2.On the turn he killed me, a Lotus Bloom was coming off Suspend and I should have Hurkyl’s Recalled it right away because I was out of interaction at that point (He tried to go off on my turn, prompting me to use my only counterspell) besides that card. It would make it so he couldn’t kill me if Ad Nauseam was on top of his library. In this scenario, he already had it so again, it didn’t matter.
Happens I guess…that's that
I will say the Relic package in the version of the deck that won is quite poor vs us and Eternal Skirge is not something we are very concerned about.
Right, but it feels like you can still easily lose if they have 4-5 Skreds/Bolts since they play the full 8.