Quote from LanternThe other alternative is 1 stoneforge, which I dont think deck wants to do. I think I'll go with price, as Id love to blow out the game with one.
Quote from Lantern
Im using your list at this next week. But I only have one jitte. What should I replace the other with? Price? Or a sword? Maybe an Ooze?
Edit: Why imposing Sovereign?
Edit 2: What about knight over Smiter? Which is better and why?
Quote from emuhellAfter testing a few games with this list I can confirm - this performs quite well. I had some issues with KotR as he isn't really useful here. He sits on an odd place in the deck... and the Lavamancer doesn't like him either. I will continue testing and replace him with Loxodon Smiter - the inevitability is supernice against tempo decks, being bolt-proof adds the rest.
What do you think about KotR?
What would you Sideboard against tempo and control?
PS: with Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Grim Lavamancer and from the board Scavenging Ooze - we have a total of 13 Cards ripped in pieces by Rest in Peace... I know our miracles matchup isn't favourable anyways, but shouldn't we try to minimize the liabilites?
Quote from LanternI'm ganna give it a whirl in a while. standard zoo rules apply? Any tips I should know?
Quote from LanternWhat was that list?
Quote from BobMcFailhttp://www.starcitygames.com/article/26217_Blitz-Brewing.html What do you guys think off this?
Quote from gereffiI've been testing out a new list with Experiment One. By playing one other creature, it's as good as Loam Lion, and most games it'll end up being a Wild Nacatl that regenerates. Here's what I'm looking at right now.
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4 Experiment One4 Wild Nacatl4 Kird Ape4 Goblin Guide2 Grim Lacamancer4 Tarmogoyf3 Burning-Tree Emissary4 Lightning Bolt4 Chain Lightning3 Path to Exile2 Reckless Charge1 Price of Progress2 Fireblast4 Arid Mesa4 Windswept Heath4 Wooded Foothills2 Taiga2 Savannah1 Plateau1 Forest1 MountainSideboard3 Relic of Progenitus2 Pyroblast1 Path to Exile2 Ancient Grudge1 Price of Progress3 Loxodon Smiter3 Angel of Despair
Quote from Hansewouldn't you guys SB orim's chant or silence against combo? It looks like, if well-timed, it can shut down storm, SI, belcher...
Quote from dwchangFirst off, no need to apologize. This is a discussion board after all and I for one am glad to see the Zoo thread receive replies.
As for Tower of the Magistrate, I don't think it's a bad idea at all. It's funny to see them waste mana on an equipment and then fetch your land and make it fall off. As you said, if your meta has a lot of artifacts/equipment and you have KotR, why not use his utility to tutor for a silver bullet land that helps you win? I'd say if anything, you're using KotR as he's intended and that's just good deck building since you're building around your meta.
The only question becomes, which non-basic you replace it with, but fortunately Zoo has 2 or 3 land flex slots where you can either smooth it out with more fetchlands or add a few utility lands so it shouldn't be a problem. If you're wondering how I got that, I usually start with 10 fetchlands, 5 dual lands, and one of each basic, which gives you 18 lands. You then have 2 - 3 open lands slots depending on if you want to run 20 or 21 lands.
Quote from dwchang
Also it looks like Blind Obedience is only ever sided in against Sneak and Show and if that is the case, I'd personally rather replace it with a sideboard card that has more utility than just one match-up. I'd personally say that two Crop Rotations are more useful than Blind Obedience since it shuts off both Show and Tell and Sneak Attack via Karakas fetch. Then again, I also run a Bojuka Bog and other utility lands so the Crop Rotation has a lot of value for me in the SB since I can side it in against multiple match-ups.
Anyway thanks for the explanation regarding Blind Obedience as tech against Sneak and Show. I hadn't thought of it.
Quote from dwchangExcept I suggested the opposite: Cutting a non-basic for a non-basic. So to say it's making your deck worse or your mana base worse is a misrepresentation of what I said. And I don't believe substituting a non-basic that RUG/BUG can Wasteland for another non-basic that RUG/BUG can Wasteland makes your mana base any better or worse.
Quote from dwchang
Lastly, I think your results and a conclusion are a bit misleading. You faced RUG/BUG nearly 30% of the time (10/36) and beat it nearly every time (as I would expect). I don't think that it's very likely that a Zoo player will face one very specific, favored match-ups so often while only ~10% of the time (4/36) face one of their extremely bad match-ups (Sneak and Show and Storm Combos) and zero UWx Miracle decks.
That's not an accurate representation of the decks a typical Zoo player will likely see and thus why many Zoo players think the current meta is so bad for Zoo. If anything, I think it's gotten worse with Combo on the rise to counter all the mid-range decks. Then again, as I said, if you realistically face so many favored match-ups so often, then yeah, I too would play Zoo and maybe that's the conclusion you came to based on your meta. I would *love* to see a meta filled with RUG/BUG or even better, Merfolk :tongue:.
At the same time, it's nice that you got good match-ups and won, but I disagree with some of the advice in your article. I won't get into it point by point, but one that stuck out was siding out Tarmogoyfs (our best beater) against Show and Tell for Blind Obedience. I'm guessing the logic is you can extort their cantrips so as to get ahead in life, but if you are using your mana to extort and not play creatures (one of which you took out) and accelerate your clock against them, than I disagree. Don't get me wrong though, your other sideboard choices against Sneak and Show make sense, but taking out Goyfs (who will likely be a 3/4 or 4/5) for Blind Obedience made no sense to me.
Quote from dwchangAs for losing to Wasteland, I simply just fetch my basic lands first until I know if they are on RUG/BUG, etc. and then it's a non-issue. Also Zoo is already favored against RUG Delver, so simply adding a Karakas to shore up one of your worst match-ups is better than increasing your win percentage against a deck that you already handily beat most of the time. It's almost always better to shore up a (popular) bad match-up than increase your win rate against a deck you already beat (unless you think you will see that deck a lot and the win rate isn't that much higher than 50%).
And again, you can simply avoid the scenario by simply fetching your basics first. Sure you could naturally draw into your Karakas, but you are already running quite a few non-basics from what I see so what is replacing one with another, more useful, non-basic going to do? Again, seems kind of odd to run Knight of the Reliquary and almost ignore his utility ability to fetch silver bullet lands for you. Yes, you mention Horizon Canopy, but I'd say that's not really using him to his maximum potential. He's much more than a simple beater and helps quite a bit in specific situations due to his utility.
If you're worried about what land to remove, you could remove a non-basic for a non-basic. I'd think removing a single Horizon Canopy would work and if you really don't want to lose those, a single Plateau. I think three is one too many.
I'd disagree than Academy Ruins -> EE recursion doesn't have a big impact on the game. EE for 1 or 2 basically blows you out of the water and it's on to Game 2. I'd agree that Esperblade and UWx Miracles are probably not as popular as seeing RUG Delver or Show and Tell, but to say it doesn't have a big impact is a bit disingenuous since EE just ends games against most Aggro decks. It's yet another reason why Aggro is doing so poorly as of late (the amount of board wipes).
Lastly, I don't know how your meta is, but according to SCG top 8 results, Show and Tell seems to be everywhere right now. However, it looks like in your four tournaments and 36 rounds, you only saw it twice (and *zero* UWx Miracles and only two Storm deck). That's only four extremely bad match-ups in 36 rounds so if that's representative of what you normally see, I could understand your deck building logic and why you are succeeding with the deck. Unfortunately, I don't believe that meta composition is the norm in many areas so to each his own.
Quote from HanseStill, wouldn't you consider maindecking it in a less-wasteland meta? Also Josh, what's your full view on how Zoo stands against most of the decks? Would you consider running Orim's Chant against combo?
On a side note, I've seen some successful list cutting Kird Apes and Loam Lions in favor of Stoneforge package. IMO, Kird Ape is still a better choice.
Quote from dwchangThis.
I feel if you're running KotR, you should run a few utility lands to fetch with him such as Wasteland and Karakas. Even as singletons they help immensely. Other than the obvious plays with Karakas, a single Wasteland can also help against decks that have Maze of Ith keeping your biggest beater at bay or cute Academy Ruins tricks with Engineered Explosives or Batterskull and Jitte.