is it wrong to run 4 x bolt and 4 x bird instead of traverse? seems nice to have 8 spot removal MD and be able to get threats out fast...
I'm currently running a playset of birds and bolts and from the little I've played in competitive games it feels good.
For me i'm currently not running Birds of Paradise as the number of times I've been mana flooded with my 27 mana sources is no joke (23 lands + 4Birds of Paradise).
With the current version of the deck Birds of Paradise is good in the opening hand but is a terrible top deck later on in the game where as Traverse the Ulvenwald makes sure your on curve early on and is a creature searcher later on. Without the need to pump out creatures for chord Birds of Paradise is less appealing.
Guys, what mix of Evolution/Chord/Path do u think is optimal? Im running 4/3/3 atm but thinking about change to 4/2/4. Whats your opinion?
I'm currently play 4 Eldritch Evolution/0 Chord of Calling/4 Path to Exile/4 Lightning Bolt and 4Birds of Paradise. I think running 7 tutors is a bit much as you don't want multiple tutor cards in your opening hand (and also Chord of Calling is a really clunky card). Thus I think 0-2 is a good number to run. With almost zero ability to tutor a silver bullet in the opponents turn its probably better to not jam the mainboard full of silver bullets.
The 8 removal spells has been very good so far in testing. This might be unrelated but ever since i switched to 8 removal spells the downside i have so far is I sometimes get mana flooded when I don't want to (running 23 lands). Its possible that Birds of Paradise is not needed in a Lightning Bolt version.
Thanks for the explanation restorical! I've ordered the Township and extra razor. Next paycheck Ill get the fire-lit. I was wondering why people ran one and I totally spaced on it being able to produce RR.
Glad I can help. Although a word of the wise: don't go get things based on what people say is good or not. Testing is your friend, what works for someone else might not work for you.
Don't really need 3 Forests, if you get blood mooned at most you need is 2 forests to cast Eternal Witness or Kitchen Finks
Less shocklands means the manabase is less painful
I have played with Sunpetal Grove for a very long time and i do like it. The problem is its not a terribly good opening land to have.Razorverge Thicket is a far superior opening land to have, problem with Razorverge Thicket is if its your 4th land, then you cant cast your Collected Company or in my case Restoration Angel on time. Though its sometimes a nessary evil we must have to minimise a painful manabase.
Gavony Township - Helps to reset your Kitchen Finks after it has persisted. Also allows Birds of Paradise and our small creatures to become actual threats. I would play two just because its affect is that powerful.
I suppose, but then its the same question as why are people running things like Blood moon,Worship or Slaughter Games. In the same vein, kiki-pod used to play non creature spells too and it was a creature toolbox deck too.
NOTE: I am not disagreeing with you whocansay and I probably wont ever need Ancient Grudge but i might use Shatterstorm if theres an uptick of Robots and Lantern Control in my area.
Thanks for the comments. I would ideally like more Voice of Resurgence mainboard if I could find a spot for the elemental. Perhaps cut the Melira, Sylvok Outcast from the sideboard or go back down to 22 lands (cutting the forest) for the third Voice? Considering that i'm running 4 more spot removal in Lightning Bolt my infect match up has improved a bit. OH, why only 1 change? its because I only have 3 Voice of Resurgence . I also run some artifact hate in the forms of Qasali Pridemage and Reclamation Sage but i suppose i could fit something like Shatterstorm or Ancient Grudge and go down to one Fulminator Mage.
@whocansay, I agree with the comments. Thrun is just a really tough creature to remove while sigarda blanks almost all of Junds removal. Nothing is more satisfying than resolving a turn 3 Sigarda, Host of Herons against Jund
If i had to be picky the layout could do some work. I think that the Melira Pod, Archangel Spike Pod, and Junk/Abzan Pod Primer in Archives is a good way to go.
Maybe but then again BBE doesnt get any of our combo pieces.
Unbanning BBE would also allow Jund to get Bloodbraid Elf. Jund is already a solid Tier 1 deck and theres no need to make the deck that oppressive to play against. There is no need for it in the current meta (the meta is also not that healthy to begin with)
EDIT: Do you really want Living End to have another way to win?
The landbase
- 1x Cinder Glade: Don't have a Raging Ravine so another RG dual land will do.
- I'm not particularly fond manlands in general. If I had room I would probably be running Gavony Township
- Razorverge Thicket can sometimes be really arkward when you draw it as your fourth land and you want to be casting Restoration Angel, might replace it with Horizon Canopy
- Its possible in the blue version i should be running a few copies of Grove of the Burnwillows. But it seems fine at the moment.
- The blue version has 3 blue shocklands just like how Kiki-Pod used to run in there manabase
Eldritch Evolution
- Can cheat out cards head of the curve.
- Possible to have 8 power on the field by turn 3 from 1 creature. Voice of Resurgence into Eldritch Evolution for Pia and Kiran Nalaar
- Eldritch Evolution is incredibly weak to counterspells. Mana leak and/or remand are the main conterspells you will be facing so knowing when to go for Eldritch Evolution is important. Remand is much more devastating than manaleak because at least you can work around leak.
- The style of your deck shifts into a more aggressive take rather than a controly type (when decks ran Nahiri).
Edits:
- Running Negates over Unified Will. Sometimes you just don't have more creatures than opponent and also the things that you want to counter are generally non creature spells where Negate does wonderfully
Will eventually be testing a list with zero Chord of calling but with 4 Lightning Bolt. This should hopefully make the deck better against aggressive decks.
Never ever board out the combo. In Jeff's words: "Even if you feel like the combo is too slow or fragile in a given matchup, do not board it out. Unlike many of the combos in Modern, our combo consists of cards that are reasonable outside of killing our opponent instantly. Kiki copying Wall of Omens and Eternal Witness generates serious card advantage and Restoration Angel is a reasonable evasive clock on its own."
Sigarda, Host of Herons is a lot better than this card ( at least for me and she also helps vs living end). Not only does she help against b/g/x decks she is useful against Grixis / Jeskai Control ( she can only be removed via a wrath effect if she resolves). If your looking at the creature for its anthem effect then Wilt-Leaf Liege is a much better option. If your looking at its etb ability then Pia and Kiran Nalaar is the better option. Not only is it a high costing creature its incredibly fragile.
Why would you play this against Tron, Affinity or Infect in the first place? The angel too slow vs infect. Tron will pyroclasm the board and affinity can flood the board and go wide or galvanic blast it.
For me i'm currently not running Birds of Paradise as the number of times I've been mana flooded with my 27 mana sources is no joke (23 lands + 4Birds of Paradise).
With the current version of the deck Birds of Paradise is good in the opening hand but is a terrible top deck later on in the game where as Traverse the Ulvenwald makes sure your on curve early on and is a creature searcher later on. Without the need to pump out creatures for chord Birds of Paradise is less appealing.
I'm currently play 4 Eldritch Evolution/0 Chord of Calling/4 Path to Exile/4 Lightning Bolt and 4Birds of Paradise. I think running 7 tutors is a bit much as you don't want multiple tutor cards in your opening hand (and also Chord of Calling is a really clunky card). Thus I think 0-2 is a good number to run. With almost zero ability to tutor a silver bullet in the opponents turn its probably better to not jam the mainboard full of silver bullets.
The 8 removal spells has been very good so far in testing. This might be unrelated but ever since i switched to 8 removal spells the downside i have so far is I sometimes get mana flooded when I don't want to (running 23 lands). Its possible that Birds of Paradise is not needed in a Lightning Bolt version.
If i had to play Chord of Calling in my list of spells then it would be 4 Eldritch Evolution/2 Chord of Calling/4 Path to Exile/4 Lightning Bolt.
Glad I can help. Although a word of the wise: don't go get things based on what people say is good or not. Testing is your friend, what works for someone else might not work for you.
-1 Forest, -1 Temple Garden,-3 Sunpetal Grove
+2 Razorverge Thicket,+1 Fire-Lit Thicket,+2 Gavony Township
Why those changes?
NOTE: I am not disagreeing with you whocansay and I probably wont ever need Ancient Grudge but i might use Shatterstorm if theres an uptick of Robots and Lantern Control in my area.
@whocansay, I agree with the comments. Thrun is just a really tough creature to remove while sigarda blanks almost all of Junds removal. Nothing is more satisfying than resolving a turn 3 Sigarda, Host of Herons against Jund
On another note, this is the list im running atm:
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wall of Omens
3x Eternal Witness
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3x Restoration Angel
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Reveillark
Instants (8)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Eldritch Evolution
Lands (23)
3x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Cinder Glade
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Lightning Helix
1x Melira, Sylvock Outcast
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
The deck has felt fine so far though with Ceremonious Rejection being released, it's tempting to focus again on a blue splash
What would you guys prefer: a 3rd Voice of Resurgence or the 2nd Scavenging ooze in the mainboard? Feel free to comment.
EDIT: i forgot to add to this:
Thrun, the Last Troll is another good option against bgx
Unbanning BBE would also allow Jund to get Bloodbraid Elf. Jund is already a solid Tier 1 deck and theres no need to make the deck that oppressive to play against. There is no need for it in the current meta (the meta is also not that healthy to begin with)
EDIT: Do you really want Living End to have another way to win?
The landbase
- 1x Cinder Glade: Don't have a Raging Ravine so another RG dual land will do.
- I'm not particularly fond manlands in general. If I had room I would probably be running Gavony Township
- Razorverge Thicket can sometimes be really arkward when you draw it as your fourth land and you want to be casting Restoration Angel, might replace it with Horizon Canopy
- Its possible in the blue version i should be running a few copies of Grove of the Burnwillows. But it seems fine at the moment.
- The blue version has 3 blue shocklands just like how Kiki-Pod used to run in there manabase
Eldritch Evolution
- Can cheat out cards head of the curve.
- Possible to have 8 power on the field by turn 3 from 1 creature. Voice of Resurgence into Eldritch Evolution for Pia and Kiran Nalaar
- Eldritch Evolution is incredibly weak to counterspells. Mana leak and/or remand are the main conterspells you will be facing so knowing when to go for Eldritch Evolution is important. Remand is much more devastating than manaleak because at least you can work around leak.
- The style of your deck shifts into a more aggressive take rather than a controly type (when decks ran Nahiri).
Creatures
- While Mr Hoogland doesn't particularly like Kitchen Finks, I think its a really great card to have now that we use Eldritch Evolution. While you need 2 Eldritch Evolution with a Kitchen Finks to get Restoration Angel and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker the chances of that happening is very small.
- the fact that now you can aggressively sack Finks to go get a Restoration Angel means life loss is easier to handle.
- Glen Elendra Archmage and Murderous Redcap are silver bullets that is effective against a majority of the modern format.
- Deceiver Exarch is another combo piece
- Siege Rhino has been ok, but i hardly see myself using Eldritch Evolution on a two drop for it. Might drop Rhino for a Linvala, Keeper of Silence or Sigarda, Host of Herons
- Selfless Spirit has been amazing almost all the time i cast it. Makes combat incredibly awkward for opponent.
- Since we running less copies of Chord of Calling, I am running zero copies of Wall of Roots
- Having played and cast Ruric Thar i believe hes too slow in general and we don't want to be sacrificial a 4 drop for him
Edits:
- Running Negates over Unified Will. Sometimes you just don't have more creatures than opponent and also the things that you want to counter are generally non creature spells where Negate does wonderfully
Will eventually be testing a list with zero Chord of calling but with 4 Lightning Bolt. This should hopefully make the deck better against aggressive decks.
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Spellskite
3x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wall of Omens
2x Eternal Witness
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3x Restoration Angel
1x Siege Rhino
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Reveillark
2x Chord of Calling
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery (4)
4x Eldritch Evolution
Lands (22)
2x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Cinder Glade
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Celestial Purge
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Lightning Helix
1x Melira, Sylvock Outcast
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stony Silence
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Shriekmaw
and
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Spellskite
3x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wall of Omens
1x Deceiver Exarch
2x Eternal Witness
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3x Restoration Angel
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2x Chord of Calling
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery (4)
4x Eldritch Evolution
Lands (23)
2x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cinder Glade
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Celestial Purge
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Lightning Helix
2x Negate
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stony Silence
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Reclamation Sage
Why would you play this against Tron, Affinity or Infect in the first place? The angel too slow vs infect. Tron will pyroclasm the board and affinity can flood the board and go wide or galvanic blast it.