- GrixisGuru
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Member for 9 years, 3 months, and 15 days
Last active Sat, Jan, 6 2018 12:52:23
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chalupa43087 posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Fair enough, I guess the reason I am not a fan of Mogis is that I have never had a problem against Junk, Junk or other control decks, my match percentage against them is very high so bringing in what I feel to be a card that doesn't really do much or is a huge haymaker goes against my SB preferences when I feel I have actual bad matchups that a card like Mogis could be used for those. I totally get wanting to play win more cards I mean come on cruel ultimatum is totally win more but for me the SB should be more than just sweet cards but cards that have big impact like a crumble to dust which is game ending against a tough matchupPosted in: Modern Archives - Established -
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Posted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from DoULikeMyUlt1m4tuM »Finallly a good reply that add something that isn't like " play fulminator is really better cuz pros play it And idk but is better ".
If this is all you got out of my reply on my reasoning of Fulminator VS Molten Rain; then you're more of an idiot than I thought... I honestly didn't think that was possible; kudos to you sir. -
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Posted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from Lil_Bolas »You have SCG premium? If you do he literally says his list was not tuned correctly citing his only loses being to collected company decks.
So I am very right considering I repeated what the man himself had to say about his deck.
Said he wanted an extra land and a pair of sweepers.
I think what GrixisGuru is saying; Chapin never admitted or said those words exactly in his article...
I've read it a few times; and I don't recall him saying anything to the tune of "My list wasn't tuned.."
Where Chapin admitted fault was he didn't bring enough to counteract what CoCo decks were doing.
He is 0-13 VS CoCo Decks and admitted the need for some kind of Sweeper of either Damnation or Angers; or a combination of the 2.
I'm going to re-read it again; don't think he admitted that his list wasn't Tuned though... Finishing 9th with an Untuned list if he did say that; wow... Kudos to him.
It was Tuned; it was tuned towards Burn/AmuletBloom/Tron; less so towards CoCo; I wouldn't call that an untuned list.
He also admitted that 3 Cryptic is probably the "Right" number; but his favorite card is Cryptic; so he couldn't see himself registering the Deck List without the full 4.
I maybe wrong; but yea; he didn't use those words of it not being tuned.
EDIT:
I think we all can learn something in hindsight...
I think that's really what he was saying.
Thought he could of gone 3 Cryptics.
Thought he needed a 22nd land.
Thought he needed a pair of sweepers.
But all in all; finishing 9th; he didn't say it was an untuned list; he just learned a few new things with his finish and gained a better perspective is all. -
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Posted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from Lil_Bolas »I have been testing Silumgar's Command and it seems like a good card to include in the 75.
Played a modern event last night and I have come to the conclusion that we do not need that silly Dragon's Claw to beat burn.
I beat burn with Dispels and Countersqualls, so I think countermagic is the path to take against them.
I also tested a single Witchbane Orb that I resolved against my burn opponent that had him cursing himself.
After last night I strongly believe that 4 Cryptic Command is correct for my list with all the aggro. That may seem counter intuitive, but using the fog mode gave me enough time to find a wrath and reset the board.
I made this case a few pages back but it seems if I make a case; it's only because a Pro said it or something and no one really listens or takes me seriously; which is fine...
I know I have a lack of experience in the format; but one thing I do pride myself on is understanding how decks beat me; and understand the best ways or appropriate reasonable ways to attack them to prevent them from beating us.
I'm pretty good with Meta Gaming...
My first match that I studied when I sleeved up my Cruel Control list was Burn; I said it awhile ago that Artifacts/Enchantments are NOT the way to beat Burn.
I said it before any pro said it; but since certain people enjoy the fact that I also like to reference pros; Chapin just wrote an article about his Grixis Control list and finishing 9th at GP:C...
My finding awhile back ago was that Burn decks run anywhere between 5 to 8 "Destroy Enchantment/Artifact Deal Some Damage cards".
It's either Smash to Smithereens or Destructive Revelry for the most part...
I said tapping out for Turn 5 Batterskull just plays right into their hands... tapping out for Turn 6 Wurmcoil Engine plays right into their hands.
If I did give a slight nod to an Artifact that "COULD" in theory get the job done; it would be devoting like 3 slots to Dragon's Claw.
Simply because Dragon's Claw comes down as early as Turn 2; and if you run more than one your chances of getting one to stick are pretty good.
But that's 3 Slots... 3 precious slots; for 1 matchup... I don't like it.
I hated that solution to the problem; I've been saying its all about the Counterspells. Dispel; Flashfreeze/Countersquall.
I also run a 1 of Suffer the Past; because although our Counters certainly help; it's still a close game around Turn 6 or 7; if we don't curve out to Turn 7 Cruel; we are pretty close to death and 1 mistake at mishandling a resource or tapping out taking any kind of chance could cost us...
So I run a 1 of Suffer the Past as a way to help just in case...
So yea; I been saying it for awhile now... Welcome aboard.
The match I'm currently studying is TRON/XX matches... Blue Tron; GR Tron; sure they are vastly different decks; but they still rely on the same weakness; their Mana Base. Successfully neutralize that; and both decks drop down to our level and become much more manageable.
Currently we all disagree about the proper way to attack Tron Decks; but that's ok... I like my way. -
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Lil_Bolas posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Your English is fine mate. I studied a little Italian before switching to spanish.Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
GrixisGuru I think using Demonic Rising is hilarious and even viable lol.
I play modern everyday on MODO and in paper twice a week. Whenever new cards come out I'm eager to test them for this deck, I was excited when Kolaghan's Command was released and I thought it would be great in this deck.
I'm an Engineer by training so I'm always going to test crazy and new ideas before dismissing them. -
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Posted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from Jayman21 »Quote from Kalimashka »Hello folks,
I've been trying to go the narrow path of draw-go with little succes at the last FNM. Annihilated by affinity (animated artifact with my response swallowed by spellskite, then ravager ravaging undbound as my flawed manabase denied me a cryptic), as I was destroyed by regular Jund goyfing me to death.
But... how to put that ? Strangely enough, be able to cast Nicol Bolas three times made my night. And the diffence of power level between tier 1/1.5 decks and my awkward control was more than erased by the pleasure of driving the Eternel Outsider's deck.
I love this deck !
If your approach to grixis is to play pure draw go I think uwr and esper are much better at doing that due to rev. I think the right approach to grixis is something like Patrick Chapin's list from the last gp.
...good thing for us I don't think any of us try to copy what a pro does; this is a CRUEL Control thread and thus we're building decks with Cruel and trying to think outside the box a little bit.
I think most of us here love Cruel; it's our favorite card to resolve; and that's a big reason why we're playing Modern with it... so coming here and saying we should copy Chapin's list or trying to talk us out of Cruel is pertty much a moot point and shouldn't be made at all.
Thanks for your advice... moving along. -
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amalek0 posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)technically, shouldn't discussion of the build chapin took go in the other grixis thread, the non-cruel grixis control thread? Or are we going to merge the threads to just "grixis control"?Posted in: Modern Archives - Established -
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Posted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from GrixisGuru »...also if you want to just take a random card in a match up to see what they are working with in hand it is fairly relevant.
Such WIN!!!
I agree with this and this is a very valid thing too.
With so many decks too having access to some very early spells to help them setup; it's very reasonable that we're going to take something pretty significant in the matchup while getting to look at what they're working with. -
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Posted in: Modern Archives - EstablishedQuote from Lil_Bolas »List looks great MrRotten. How do you feel about Extirpate in the place of Surgical Extraction?
Thanks Bolas; as far as Surgical VS Extirpate; it's a matter of flexibility to be honest.
I wanted a Turn 0 Option; this card replaced the Tormod's Crypts for me in my list.
Surgical does a little bit more than Extirpate as it can take out Turn 0 Combo decks or even take care of things when I've assumed the coast was clear and went for a Cruel.
Surgical just gives me alot more flesibility with being able to pay 2 life.
VS the Tron Decks; our life total doesn't really matter; if they get Tron Assembled; we're pretty much in trouble.
So casting for example Shadow of Doubt to stop a Expedition Map SEARCH then Surgical Extracting the Map really slowed down my Tron Opponent.
My match yesterday I was very close to stealing GM1 from him even without the Extractions.
I made a bad read and went for a Cruel with my opponent having only 2 mana up and 4 cards in his hand; of course he had the counter.
The turns Prior we got into some minor counter wars over Shadow of Doubt/Snapcasters/Shadow wars; and some other things... so I thought it was a chance worth taking.
If it resolves; I probably steal GM1.
I think I could of been more patient as I had Cryptic and other things going for me in that moment when I made the decision to go for it.
GM2 VS Blue Tron I won; dominated was Surgical Extraction; Sowing Salt; and the Shadow of Doubts; all of those cards, however many all worked well together to get that victory and keep him off balance.
Then in GM3 I was mana screwed and it wasn't even close... SO I feel like I'm almost there...
Quote from DoULikeMyUlt1m4tuM »How many matches did u play against robots, colletc and abzan?
I cant understand why that gurmag isnt the 2nd tasigur
I haven't played enough to greatly answer your first question; as far as matchups and trends I'm seeing. Sorry about that; I don't think it would be good data if I told you matchups right now because of the fact I haven't played enough; and I'm still working my way through being new into Modern again. Although I made less mistakes yesterday; I still made SOME. Specifically in the Tron matchup; the 1 match that I lost.
As far as Gurmag + Tasigur; I really like having BOTH.
Generally I really only want these semi late; maybe MID game... like a Turn 5 or 6ish.
And I would only want 1 Tasigur and 1 Gurmag; as they both play well with each other. Tasigur being Legendary; doesn't really play well with a 2nd Tasigur.
I like being able to drop Tasigur; then follow up maybe the next turn with a Gurmag; activate Tasigur and the GY be really really clean to the point I've really got control over what card my opponent gives me back.
That's all it is; the justification of 1 for 1 split as opposed to 2 Tasigur.
Personal preference I guess...
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MrRotten posted a message on [Primer] Cruel Control with Ultimatum (8/2011 - 3/2016)Well; I think if we're all being honest here...Posted in: Modern Archives - Established
I'd say as far as Grixis Decks go; here's how I'd rank them currently.
#1. Grixis Delver --> Just seems to be the strongest of them all so far; it's consistent; also plays Young Pyromancer; it's a very solid Grixis deck I think.
#2. Grixis Twin --> Another very strong Grixis list; but it is built around an infinite Combo and that's what can also make it weak.
#3. Grixis Moon --> This is the Grixis Conrol list that runs mainboard Blood Moon and Vedalken Shackles. TO be fair to this one; this one might even be #1 just because it's positioned very good right now currently. But I'm biased against this deck because of Mainboard Blood Moon.... LOL
#4. Grixis Control --> There's a new Control Grixis list popping up; runs Tasigur/Gurmag; Young Pyromancer; NO Delver NO Mainboard Blood Moon NO Twin Combo. A few of the win conditions are swapped around between all of the builds; but primarily it's a Young Pyromancer deck.
Those are the only Grixis lists that I really know of... I researched ALL the Grixis lists heavily before I settled on my shell and started posting on this thread.
I don't even put Grixis Cruel Control on the list because well let's be honest... CURRENTLY it's not Tier 1; some believe it never will be; while others think it's still early in development and alot of us are still trying different things while for the most part we all agree on the core shell.
I still think it could be Tier 1 and the handful of us here that are working on it are just a little ahead of the curve.
I think it'll be a matter of time till we start seeing a few CRUEL Control lists start popping up.
People keep telling me that CRUEL costs too much and it'll never be Tier 1 in Modern...
Yet; I'm seeing more and more each day Control decks stepping outside of those narrow minded boxes and people going with Elspeth which is a 6 CMC or higher.
I think the ones that have been active over the last few weeks too with Grixis Cruel can attest; that it is possible to out wit; out smart; out play your opponent and CONTROL the game for 6 Turns and Cruel easily on Turn 7.
And I have to say; thus far in playing various matchup;s CRUEL is still powerful enough that when it does Resolve; it's a Game Changer.
I don't think there's a Modern deck in the format that can just smile at Cruel and still win... sure; the first resolution of Cruel doesn't always WIN right there; but the card just does an amazing job at swinging games back in our favor. With the Card Draw and Life; our Win% rises dramatically.
With Snapcasters; it makes casting your 2nd or 3rd Cruel even more likely....
So that's my opinion on it... It's not going to stop me from trying and working on it; Cruel is the reason I am back in Modern.
And here's what I perceive to be the core shell...
Creatures:
3-4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
2 Cruel Ultimatum - For the Cruel builds.
2-4 Cryptic Command
2-3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
0-2 Remand
4 Lightning Bolt
1-3 Electrolyze
1-3 Kolaghan's Command
2-3 Terminate
Lands: 24-25
Beyond this; alot of the decks start to look fairly different... but for the most part we all agree on the above Tools to get the job done. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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I think I may run a 1 of electrolyze over the 3rd Terminate. But I have yet to go that far down that path.
On another note, I really liked the Gurmag, Tasigur, Thoughtscour against red. Plus in the control matches we may just completely catch them offguard by boarding into a ore grixis delve deck.
1 Blood Crypt
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shore
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Watery Grave
Creatures - 8
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Mulldrifter
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
1 Dispel
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
1 Remand
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
3 Terminate
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flashfreeze
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Spellskite
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
3 Thought Scour
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I understand that my take on the deck is a little extreme looking to put it mildly, but everyone dismises it as bad before even attempting a trial run with it. I guess to be honest it is a mix of a cruel control deck and a jund decck slapped together and you all aren't interested but I promise it does work.
I do think that I am open to making changes to the deck and working on the deck with Mr. Rotten has gotten me further into thinking and adjusting some choices but I'm not confidant enough to share a list that I know is still being tested because it definitely isn't ideal. There is also the point of no one tests anything really anyway, they just post what they think and tell you how their list is so much superior so there is that small tidbit.
The only things I can tell is that almost all of us agree on some spells that should be included in every list like...
3-4 snapcaster mage
1-2 electrolyze
2-3 Kolaghan's command
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Crytic Command
0-2 Damnation
4 Lightning bolt
2 mana leak
2 spell snare
2-3 Terminate
and some number around 25 lands...
That leaves you at least 8 slots that you can use in the main deck tomake it your own. Feel free to try out some weird ***** god knows I have...I have even tried Demonic Rising.
p.s. I still think Molten Rain sucks in our deck, but don't take it personally DoULikeMyUlt1m4tuM. We will agree to disagree.
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I think the Split Second on Extirpate is great but Surgical Extraction being able to be played for 2 life can be huge against certain decks...also if you want to just take a random card in a match up to see what they are working with in hand it is fairly relevant. I think for now I will stay with what I have in Surgical Extration
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First off my list shows 3 Snapcater Mage and I just think that the 4th is unnecessary. it's just who I am and how I play decks. I have played snapcaster since it came out and have never like it as a 4 of because I don't like them clumping up in my hand...
To be honest I don't think I could ever play your artifact heavy grixis list either...I think you are missing actual good artifacts like coalition relic that could actually help you ramp into say a turn 5 ultimatum for things that might be good against certain matches.
It seems like a mash up of a Grixis Tezzerator deck with a Cruel Control list. I think one or the other has got to go.
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