I forgot about a Reanimator player who will be at the event on Sunday. With a card like Faerie Macabre, do I mulligan a decent 7 card hand (2 lands possibility to goldfish by turn 3) that doesn't have the Faerie in it? How low do I mulligan for hate?
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Ya, Blood Moon seems like an "I Win" cad against BUG and Shardless if it lands but maybe something like Grafdigger's cage to fight reanimator too is better.
Also, I do own fetch lands, but have found them to be less necessary in Legacy compared to modern. And definitely lost a game last month because I got a turn 2 fetchland Stifled and stuck on 1 land until turn 7 or something.
Harsh Mentor should not replace any spells, if it also isn't replacing Eidolon then it isn't replacing any creatures either. Therefore, it is replacing nothing and won't be played. Simple as that. I've said my piece, waste your time with this card if you like.
Harsh Mentor is not trying to be a Lightning Bolt or Skullcrack, it is trying to be a 2/2 creature for 2 with a relevant ability. So yes, it gets compared to Eidolon. I agree, with you when you say "You have to compare it to things that it might replace". Well it isn't replacing Lightning Bolt, or any other spell I can see that sees play (I'm not sure why you mention a card like lightning strike) the only real ability or part or curve it compares to is Eidolon.
To matter against Fetchlands Harsh Mentor is dependent on drawing it in your opening hand, being on the play, having an opponent that needs to fetch, and is easily killed. So for those reasons I do not buy the Fetchland argument. I do not like to use the "dies to removal" argument but in this case it is a 2/2 for 2, not a Goyf, or a Snapcaster, or an islandwalking lord. It's power and toughness are mediocre and has no ETB. It doesn't do enough.
Since I think Harsh Mentor will not see play and you do, would you post a list you could see it in as well instead of just saying it should be included?
Harsh mentor could possibly be a SB card against decks with Deathrite Shaman and Sensei's Divining Top, but other than that it might be too narrow. Soul-Scar Mage seems poor as hopefully we've been able to goldfish and win before it matters. I also agree that 12 creatures is the absolute most this deck should be playing and therefore there likely just isn't room for either of them.
I've got a Legacy event this weekend and am currently working with this list:
I'm not thrilled about running the 4 Exquisite Firecraft in the main deck or the strictly basic mana base, but with LOTS of blue decks (Delver, Merfolk, Miracles) in my local meta and cards like Force of Will and Stifle so prevalent it has been helpful. I would rather be jamming 4 Flame Rift main, but what can you do.
The SB is what I am not sure about, specifically the Blood Moons. Any SB advice with Merfolk, Delver (BUG mostly), Miracles, Manaless Dredge, and ANT Storm all likely to show up?
My point is not that Eidolon is better. My point is that obviously Eidolon is better, so unless you're running 60+ cards you still don't play Harsh Mentor.
Same with the SB. People are saying it's narrow, I'm saying it's TOO narrow. Too narrow even for a SB slot.
My deck does lean a bit towards a zoo strategy, I'll grant you that, but considering Nacatl was recently a 4-of in most lists I don't think this tendency is necessarily wrong. It's not like we're playing 4 Eidolons and 36 damage spells here. As far as that goes though I admit it is preference and could be less than optimal.
You say that it dies to everything--but so do Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Wild Nacatl, and Grim Lavamancer. None of our dudes escape removal. Soul scar mage suffers from the exact same problem. So let's lose that argument.
You're free to lose that argument all you want. All the creatures you mentioned either have haste or eidolon will hit them for 2 when they use a removal spell. This is a two mana do-nothing bear.
I assume your point here is that you made their 5/6 into a 2/3 so it's slower now? You're not assessing this properly. You're likely in topdeck mode at this point. You bolt goyf and add a turn to the amount of time it takes to kill them. Simultaneously, you only add 1 turn to their clock since the correct play with a different creature in place of SSM would have been to block Goyf and fog their attack that turn. If you add a turn to their clock and add a turn to your clock, you haven't actually improved your situation. Your best hope in this case is that you bolt Goyf and block with SSM, kill Goyf, and keep SSM to maintain some clock. But, if you've reached topdeck mode, Goyf will be larger than 3/4 which means you need another spell to keep SSM and that's difficult in topdeck mode.
I'm not sure what your meta game is, but where I play large Goyfs, Death's Shadows, Tasigurs, and Eldrazi are coming down on turn 2 nowadays.
Making a comparison to Eidolon is completely valid as to put his into the deck you need to take something out, so comparing the other 2 mana creature that sees play is valid. Recognizing how lopsided that is towards Eidolon should demonstrate to everyone how not-actually-good this card is.
Comparing it to Lavamancer is also incorrect. There are obviously matchups where Lavamancer is worse, same with Harsh Mentor, yes. Except in Lavamancer's poorer matches you can still just shock your opponent and not their creatures.
Harsh Mentor is too narrow, too expensive, and not resilient. It is worse than anything else that sees play except against Lantern (a matchup that is already good) and Affinity.
Harsh Mentor is a 2/2 for 2, let's agree that that is simply not good enough and that the ability is what this discussion is about.
If that's the case, then how is this better than what already is being played? The 2/2 body dies to everything and can't attack or block anything either. The opponent will simply play around it and, as it is a 2-drop, possibly already have two fetches gone by then. Go through the list of tier 1 and 2 decks, Lantern and Affinity are the only decks this is good against and is very easy to play around or simply kill. This card will wreck BAD players and even semi-decent players will make it irrelevant.
Harsh Mentor would need to hit Planeswalkers to be playable.
Cards like pyroclasm and Searing Blaze (ESPECIALLY Searing Blaze) become much much better with Soul-Scar Mage. It would obviously be nice if it had haste as it would just be a better Swiftspear, but that's greedy to want. Bolt a Goyf once and it may take a Jund player 4 more turns to kill you instead of 2 or perhaps your Goblin Guide now trades with it. Another option is that a bolt effect allows you to attack into a Thought-Knot Seer, Goyf, or Spellskite and now the opponent has to chump block (and let you draw off of Thought-Knot) or just take the 2-3 damage from your creatures. OR you use searing blaze and everything is upside.
Creatures, the repeatable damage source, are the easiest way to fight through opponents and the hate that you invariably will face and this card helps that, while also attacking with swiftspear stats.
Soul-Scar Mage is not really a 1-drop. Hopefully you are able to play GG or Swiftspear and then drop the Mage turn 3 to clean up blockers or shrink the opponents team. I will be putting it into the slot Nacatl used to fill and probably go with a list something like this:
The fact that Exquisite Firecraft is legacy playable shows that it has the power for modern, it just isn't a good fit because the counter protection is not super relevant right now, 3 CMC, and sorcery speed.
I really want it to be good in Modern as I love the card, but I expect that won't happen unless mono-red becomes a reliable tier-1 option.
By that logic, Lodestone Golem had to be restricted in Vintage,so it clearly has the power to be absolutely broken in Modern. Firecraft is not a powerful card, it just happens to fit better in Legacy (where, as I understand it Burn is not a good deck to start).
You cannot compare the ability for fast mana between vintage and modern, if you could get a Golem down on turn 1 I think it definitely could be pretty broken. I understand it is a better fit in Legacy and I mentioned the 3 strikes against Firecraft in my original post. I feel you are putting words in my mouth and not differentiating between a card seeing play in a format and being banned in another.
As for the Modern Burn wish-list, Chain Lightning would be really nice but Sulphuric Vortex is the legacy card I would most like to see in Modern, seems not overpowered for a standard reprint too.
The fact that Exquisite Firecraft is legacy playable shows that it has the power for modern, it just isn't a good fit because the counter protection is not super relevant right now, 3 CMC, and sorcery speed.
I really want it to be good in Modern as I love the card, but I expect that won't happen unless mono-red becomes a reliable tier-1 option.
12 points of damage in hand is likely too good to mulligan away, unless you are having mana troubles with a bunch of Boros Charms and no white sources (unlikely with 3 lands in hand).
Why are people using Nacatl? Question is not meant to be accusatory, just want to gain some more general knowledge about burn. Reasons for against Nacatl in my experience with/against burn are:
-seems to require about 6 life to get a 3/3 that is dead to just about every piece of removal without gaining advantage
-does not seem to match up well against the pace of all of these eldrazi decks I am seeing come out of the woodworks
-seemed to have been good mainly against traditional TRON and infect, but I've been seeing a sharp decrease in those (by all means chime in on what I'm not seeing)
-doesn't have the same explosiveness as swiftspears or guide, factoring in removal at least
-is also a bad topdeck like most creatures except it doesn't allow the haste surprise factor
I have everything except nacatl but I am hesitating on picking them up as I do not see the advantage. I'm seeing a lot of eldrazi variants, grixis control, Jund/abzan, and burn as the main parts of my meta.
The matchups people are mentioning on this thread where Wild Nacatl did poorly are completely correct. It is not good in heavy removal situations (Jund, Junk, Grixis CONTROL) or where it can just get chump blocked by token or outclassed by Eldrazi.
It is good in racing situations (Burn, Valakut/Ad Nauseam), times when your opponent stumbles or has a clunky draw or is just a slower deck (Tron), when a 3/3 body is bigger than most threats (hate bears, Delver), when board presence is a big factor (Merfolk, Elves), or some combination of these.
Generally, it is much worse on the draw and also in game 1 because a lot of decks don't care much about it and you'll side it out, but other times attacking for 5 on turn 2 with a Nacatl and a Goblin Guide or Swiftspear put you ahead by a lot.
Pretty sure everyone was done discussing the validity of online clients, but here's a new topic to be sure.
Trying to figure out the last two slots to use in my SB after deciding to cut the 2 Deflecting Palms I had been running. Replaced them with 2 copies of Sudden Shock for the time being as those cards are useful against Affinity and Infect (decks Deflecting Palm would have been brought in for). Current deck looks like this, been very happy with the results so far. But not sure if the Sudden Shocks are right. Volcanic Fallout, Molten Rain, Ensnaring Bridge, and 4th copies of Blaze, Helix, or Path are all cards I'm considering
19 Mountain
Creatures: (12)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells: (24)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Flame Rift
1 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Searing Blood
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Smash to Smitherines
3 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Suluric Vortex
Also, I do own fetch lands, but have found them to be less necessary in Legacy compared to modern. And definitely lost a game last month because I got a turn 2 fetchland Stifled and stuck on 1 land until turn 7 or something.
To matter against Fetchlands Harsh Mentor is dependent on drawing it in your opening hand, being on the play, having an opponent that needs to fetch, and is easily killed. So for those reasons I do not buy the Fetchland argument. I do not like to use the "dies to removal" argument but in this case it is a 2/2 for 2, not a Goyf, or a Snapcaster, or an islandwalking lord. It's power and toughness are mediocre and has no ETB. It doesn't do enough.
Since I think Harsh Mentor will not see play and you do, would you post a list you could see it in as well instead of just saying it should be included?
I've got a Legacy event this weekend and am currently working with this list:
20 Mountain
Creatures: (12)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells: (24)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Searing Blood
3 Pyroblast
3 Smash to Smitherines
3 Blood Moon
2 Suluric Vortex
I'm not thrilled about running the 4 Exquisite Firecraft in the main deck or the strictly basic mana base, but with LOTS of blue decks (Delver, Merfolk, Miracles) in my local meta and cards like Force of Will and Stifle so prevalent it has been helpful. I would rather be jamming 4 Flame Rift main, but what can you do.
The SB is what I am not sure about, specifically the Blood Moons. Any SB advice with Merfolk, Delver (BUG mostly), Miracles, Manaless Dredge, and ANT Storm all likely to show up?
Same with the SB. People are saying it's narrow, I'm saying it's TOO narrow. Too narrow even for a SB slot.
My deck does lean a bit towards a zoo strategy, I'll grant you that, but considering Nacatl was recently a 4-of in most lists I don't think this tendency is necessarily wrong. It's not like we're playing 4 Eidolons and 36 damage spells here. As far as that goes though I admit it is preference and could be less than optimal.
You're free to lose that argument all you want. All the creatures you mentioned either have haste or eidolon will hit them for 2 when they use a removal spell. This is a two mana do-nothing bear.
I'm not sure what your meta game is, but where I play large Goyfs, Death's Shadows, Tasigurs, and Eldrazi are coming down on turn 2 nowadays.
Making a comparison to Eidolon is completely valid as to put his into the deck you need to take something out, so comparing the other 2 mana creature that sees play is valid. Recognizing how lopsided that is towards Eidolon should demonstrate to everyone how not-actually-good this card is.
Comparing it to Lavamancer is also incorrect. There are obviously matchups where Lavamancer is worse, same with Harsh Mentor, yes. Except in Lavamancer's poorer matches you can still just shock your opponent and not their creatures.
Harsh Mentor is too narrow, too expensive, and not resilient. It is worse than anything else that sees play except against Lantern (a matchup that is already good) and Affinity.
If that's the case, then how is this better than what already is being played? The 2/2 body dies to everything and can't attack or block anything either. The opponent will simply play around it and, as it is a 2-drop, possibly already have two fetches gone by then. Go through the list of tier 1 and 2 decks, Lantern and Affinity are the only decks this is good against and is very easy to play around or simply kill. This card will wreck BAD players and even semi-decent players will make it irrelevant.
Harsh Mentor would need to hit Planeswalkers to be playable.
Cards like pyroclasm and Searing Blaze (ESPECIALLY Searing Blaze) become much much better with Soul-Scar Mage. It would obviously be nice if it had haste as it would just be a better Swiftspear, but that's greedy to want. Bolt a Goyf once and it may take a Jund player 4 more turns to kill you instead of 2 or perhaps your Goblin Guide now trades with it. Another option is that a bolt effect allows you to attack into a Thought-Knot Seer, Goyf, or Spellskite and now the opponent has to chump block (and let you draw off of Thought-Knot) or just take the 2-3 damage from your creatures. OR you use searing blaze and everything is upside.
Creatures, the repeatable damage source, are the easiest way to fight through opponents and the hate that you invariably will face and this card helps that, while also attacking with swiftspear stats.
Soul-Scar Mage is not really a 1-drop. Hopefully you are able to play GG or Swiftspear and then drop the Mage turn 3 to clean up blockers or shrink the opponents team. I will be putting it into the slot Nacatl used to fill and probably go with a list something like this:
10 Fetches
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
Creatures: (16)
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's Command
3 Searing Blaze
1 Pyroclasm
4 Destructive Revelry
4 Lightning Helix
4 Skullcrack
2 Kozilek’s Return
1 Relic of Progenitus
You cannot compare the ability for fast mana between vintage and modern, if you could get a Golem down on turn 1 I think it definitely could be pretty broken. I understand it is a better fit in Legacy and I mentioned the 3 strikes against Firecraft in my original post. I feel you are putting words in my mouth and not differentiating between a card seeing play in a format and being banned in another.
As for the Modern Burn wish-list, Chain Lightning would be really nice but Sulphuric Vortex is the legacy card I would most like to see in Modern, seems not overpowered for a standard reprint too.
I really want it to be good in Modern as I love the card, but I expect that won't happen unless mono-red becomes a reliable tier-1 option.
The matchups people are mentioning on this thread where Wild Nacatl did poorly are completely correct. It is not good in heavy removal situations (Jund, Junk, Grixis CONTROL) or where it can just get chump blocked by token or outclassed by Eldrazi.
It is good in racing situations (Burn, Valakut/Ad Nauseam), times when your opponent stumbles or has a clunky draw or is just a slower deck (Tron), when a 3/3 body is bigger than most threats (hate bears, Delver), when board presence is a big factor (Merfolk, Elves), or some combination of these.
Generally, it is much worse on the draw and also in game 1 because a lot of decks don't care much about it and you'll side it out, but other times attacking for 5 on turn 2 with a Nacatl and a Goblin Guide or Swiftspear put you ahead by a lot.
Trying to figure out the last two slots to use in my SB after deciding to cut the 2 Deflecting Palms I had been running. Replaced them with 2 copies of Sudden Shock for the time being as those cards are useful against Affinity and Infect (decks Deflecting Palm would have been brought in for). Current deck looks like this, been very happy with the results so far. But not sure if the Sudden Shocks are right. Volcanic Fallout, Molten Rain, Ensnaring Bridge, and 4th copies of Blaze, Helix, or Path are all cards I'm considering
11x Fetches
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Stomping Grounds
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Mountain
Creatures: (16)
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Boros Charm
4x Atarka's Command
4x Rift Bolt
3x Searing Blaze
1x Lightning Helix
4x Destructive Revelry
3x Skullcrack
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
2x Sudden Shock
1x Grim Lavamancer