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  • posted a message on “Destroy all...” or “Place all...”
    Quote from Ladyseig »
    Thank you for your help! Also, sorry that I posted in the wrong spot, I thought that it was more of a rule question than a strategy question, my bad.
    Rest easy, you did nothing wrong. You didn't post in the wrong forum, this really was a rules question, which happened to pop up because a strategic implication gave you doubt about the rules.

    I wouldn't have carded Argus if he chose to explain briefly, in addition to his answer, that cards that affect all of a subset of permanents are designed, balanced and costed accordingly and encourage you to build around them, by, for example, playing less of that subset of permanent in your deck. That kind of contextual explanation is fine here, as long as it doesn't drag.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Soul Sister + Heliod + Ballista
    Quote from Higusol »
    Hi,

    Everyone is talking about the new combo with Walking Ballista inside the Soul Sisters archetype.

    So have two questions for this exciting possibility.

    1) Having Force of Virtue on the the table would be possible to cast Walking Ballista for 0 ?
    Absolutely. Well, it's generally possible to cast Ballista for 0, it's just that it usually dies immediately upon entering the battlefield, but here, Force of Virtue's static ability makes it 1/1 as soon as it exists on the battlefield, so it's safe.

    Quote from Higusol »
    2) Having Soul Warden and Heliod, Sun-Crowned on the table is it possible to cast Walking Ballista (and make it survive) since you gain life and put the Heliod +1/+1 counters on it.
    Assuming you're again casting the Ballista for 0, no. The Ballista dies as a state-based action for having 0 toughness immediately after entering, even before Soul Warden's triggered ability can go on the stack. By the time you gain 1 life, the Ballista's in your graveyard.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Stack Abilities Instant vs Sorcery
    Spells and abilities on the stack resolve last-in, first-out. When a player casts a spell or puts an ability on the stack, other players can "respond" to that object on the stack by casting instants, spells with flash or activating abilities. The spell or ability put on the stack in response to the first spell or ability resolves before it. That is how, for example, a card like Cancel works: you cast a spell, putting it on the stack; in response, I cast Cancel targeting your spell, Cancel resolves before your spell, countering and sending it to your graveyard before it can resolve. In your example, Dragon Blood's ability resolves before your spell that deals damage, so the Tusker has 6 toughness at the time it gets dealt 5 damage and thus it survives.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Hostage Taker rules check
    Quote from Santaclaws546 »
    What if I turn hostage taker into a 3-3 green elk? Does hostage-takers affect stay in play. Or does the exiled creature return to its original owner?
    In the future, please create a new thread for new questions rather than reviving one that's nearly two years old. Also, please name all of the cards involved in your question and use card tags. Go here to learn how.

    I'll assume you're using Oko, Thief of Crowns, but Kenrith's Transformation would yield the same results.

    The effect remains in place, because it was created by the Taker's enter-the-battlefield ability resolving, and it is not dependent on the Taker keeping the ability after it has resolved. The exiled creature or artifact will still return if the Taker leaves the battlefield. That remains true even if it changes name somehow. The effect only checks that the permanent that was the source of the ability remains on the battlefield, no matter what abilities it has or what it becomes.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on sacrifice two lands
    Oh, that's easy. Lotus Field's ability triggers after Lotus Field is on the battlefield. When the ability resolves, Lotus Field is among the lands you control. If you only control it and/or only one other land, you'll have to sacrifice it to its own ability. (Which you usually don't want to do, so wait until later.)
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Burning-Tree Emissary and Devotion count
    This thread has run its course, guys. WarMachinePrime has understood what the official ruling is, they just say they don't like it, which is their right, but questioning it further is outside the scope of this forum. Padlock time. Lock
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on MTGA Brawl Recursion
    Quote from NightWatch »
    My Commander was in the Command Zone. That's why I was so confused.
    What peteroupc is asking is whether, by chance, your commander was last sent to the command zone by something like Deputy of Detention (that's the only non-giant creature with this effect that's currently standard-legal that I am aware of, but I know Arena Brawl introduced some cards from outside standard recently, might be something else worded similar). If so, that would explain the interaction. Despite you choosing to put your commander in the command zone rather than exile, Deputy of Detention's effect still tracks it there and brings it back to the battlefield if the Deputy leaves. That's really how it works. Absent this, this looks like a bug, I see no other reason why it would happen.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Feldon's copies: colorless?
    Being an artifact actually has no true relation to an object's color. Being an artifact doesn't make a permanent colorless. Most artifacts are colorless only by tradition, because they used to always be colorless in the early years of the game; nowadays, there are more and more colored artifacts in existence, and those are not colorless: being colorless literally means having no color, so nothing can both have a color and be colorless. Don't be fooled by the special card frames, those are only aesthetic and have no direct rules meaning. A card's color is determined by its mana cost, barring effects and abilities like Devoid that directly override that.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Time Wipe
    Quote from SavannahLion »
    I suppose a real card as an example would be Find // Finality. Having just one other creature would kill the dragon after all the Finality copies resolve.

    Is that assessment correct?
    Finality doesn't target either, so there won't be an interaction with Mirrorwing Dragon. If Finality hypothetically targeted the creature to give +1/+1 counters to, the Dragon would presumably die as a state-based action immediately after the second instance of Finality resolves, even if that instance is the original, which gives +1/+1 counters to it. It would end up with negative toughness from the total -8/-8 even with those counters.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on cost reduction with Power Artifact + Nahiri, Storm of Stone
    You can have the equip cost reduced to either 1 or 0, because you can apply the cost reduction effects in any order. This is from rule 601.2f (which applies to spells, but the rules tell us that it is mirrored for activated abilities).

    602.2b. The remainder of the process for activating an ability is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2b-i. Those rules apply to activating an ability just as they apply to casting a spell. An activated ability's analog to a spell's mana cost (as referenced in rule 601.2f) is its activation cost.

    601.2f. The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Interactions Between Melira, Sylvok Outcast or Solemnity and Persist
    Quote from Kamonohashi »
    Quote from MadMageQc »
    Persist is a triggered ability that each creature gains individually, so what happens exactly depends on how you order the persist triggers (they all go on the stack at the same time and you control them all, so you choose their relative order on the stack). Putting Melira's persist trigger on top of the stack so she enters first makes the most sense if you want as many creatures as possible to not enter with a -1/-1 counter. [EDIT: Her ability is taken into account for herself and makes it so she doesn't enter with a counter.] Then, provided she survives, her ability will prevent subsequent persist triggers from putting counters on the other returning creatures.

    Solemnity's even easier since it's itself probably not destroyed by the board wipe (unless it also destroys enchantments) and won't persist­ if it is (unless you made it a creature somehow, in which case it works the same as Melira).
    Thank you everyone for the time and effort you put into figuring this out. It's incredibly helpful!

    I take it that what MadMageQc wrote earlier about ordering the Persist triggers is accurate. In the scenario described in the original post, if I choose to order the Persist triggers so that Melira, Sylvok Outcast's persist is on top of the stack, she will come in with a -1/-1 counter but will prevent the other creatures which were destroyed at the same time from coming in with any counters. If we're talking about a wrath, Solemnity will definitely prevent all the creatures from coming back with -1/-1 counters because it, itself, will not be destroyed. Am I understanding correctly?
    Absolutely.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Sanctum Seeker ruling..
    Quote from Laser Brains »
    I have a Sanctum Seeker in play and attack with four other 1/1 vampires (opponent takes the damage). Does my opponent take 4 from the vampire's combat damage and then lose an additional 4 life as I gain 4. Or does my opponent only lose 1 life and I gain 1. The card says: Whenever "a" vampire attacks, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life. Not: Whenever "each" vampire attacks...

    Thanks ahead of time!
    The ability triggers for each vampire that you attack with. A triggered ability can trigger multiple times simultaneously if its trigger condition as defined happens multiple times simultaneously. If it was meant to trigger just once, it would be worded "whenever one or more vampires you control attack", like Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle (It's not often that two cards from the same tribe and the same set can be shown side by side to so cleanly illustrate a point!)

    As an aside, note that the ability happens before combat damage, since it triggers and resolves in the declare attackers step, even before your opponent declares blockers.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Interactions Between Melira, Sylvok Outcast or Solemnity and Persist
    Quote from WizardMN »
    Quote from peteroupc »
    Both Melira and Solemnity will keep a creature from being given one -1/-1 counter as it enters the battlefield (C.R. 122.6). Even Melira itself won't be given any -1/-1 counters as it enters, due to its second ability, since that ability even works as Melira is entering the battlefield (C.R. 113.6h, 122.6, 614.17d).


    Quote from MadMageQc »
    Bonus edit: Now, if instead your creatures including Melira are already in the graveyard and you bring them back with something like Pyrrhic Revival, which makes them all enter at the same time, Melira will only stop herself from entering with a -1/-1 counter, not the other creatures, since effects from permanents not yet on the battlefield are only taken into account for themselves in such an event, they can't apply to other things yet.
    A minor correction to these two points: Melira can never apply to herself as she enters. Things like Mowu, Loyal Companion apply to themselves because they only apply to themselves. See this rule (I am just going to quote the same rule as above but highlight the more relevant section):

    614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.
    Oh my, you are actually misreading the rule the exact same way I misread it at first yesterday (lesson learned: it's really best to put detail in your self-correcting edits :p ). The thing is Melira's ability doesn't have a replacement effect, it's just a static ability with a continuous effect. Since it doesn't have a replacement effect, the part you bolded doesn't apply to it. The only replacement effect we're looking at here is entering the battlefield with a -1/-1 counter from persist. Melira's ability is instead an example of the other part of the rule that I bolded above, "taking into account [...] continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield". So it does work and prevent the putting of a counter on herself.

    It kinda makes me want to facepalm that two very experimented gurus like us got this wrong, but to our defense, that rule and the interactions with Melira that it entails always have been confusing, and they have been modified over the years. It's easy to misremember exactly how it is now; Melira used not to affect herself while she enters the battlefield when this was worded differently, and I think we both misread the part you bolded as that fact that we remembered being true at some point.

    EDIT: And now peteroupc is editing his posts thinking your correction was legit XD. Remove those strikethroughs Peter, you were right all along.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Interactions Between Melira, Sylvok Outcast or Solemnity and Persist
    Quote from FetalTadpole »
    The above two answers are different in what happens to Melira herself. It is my understanding that she will return with a -1/-1 counter since her replacement effect doesn't apply until she is on the battlefield, by which time she will already have a -1/-1 counter. Please explain who is right.
    They don't differ anymore. I was wrong and I edited my post the minute afer I posted, and I thought I did it fast enough not to be caught. :p Sorry about that.

    The relevant rule is this one, emphasis mine:
    614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Interactions Between Melira, Sylvok Outcast or Solemnity and Persist
    Persist is a triggered ability that each creature gains individually, so what happens exactly depends on how you order the persist triggers (they all go on the stack at the same time and you control them all, so you choose their relative order on the stack). Putting Melira's persist trigger on top of the stack so she enters first makes the most sense if you want as many creatures as possible to not enter with a -1/-1 counter. [EDIT: Her ability is taken into account for herself and makes it so she doesn't enter with a counter.] Then, provided she survives, her ability will prevent subsequent persist triggers from putting counters on the other returning creatures.

    Solemnity's even easier since it's itself probably not destroyed by the board wipe (unless it also destroys enchantments) and won't persist­ if it is (unless you made it a creature somehow, in which case it works the same as Melira).

    Bonus edit: Now, if instead your creatures including Melira are already in the graveyard and you bring them back with something like Pyrrhic Revival, which makes them all enter at the same time, Melira will only stop herself from entering with a -1/-1 counte, not the other creatures, since effects from permanents not yet on the battlefield are only taken into account for themselves in such an event, they can't apply to other things yet.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
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