MTG Salvation

Personally I still think the green would be more flexible as a splash. All of the red cards you are all listing get rid of lands from Tron. Great. Perfect. However you're WASTING slots that could either a.) Provide more tokens, or b.) Support your end-game goals. You guys should really throw in your mix of lands 2-3 Ghost Quarter and splash green for 2-3 Beast Within. Sideboard 2 Surgical Extraction. So... What it's looking like is:

• I can get rid of possibly 1-2 lands in a match (believing you could pull out 2 Quarters) by lands...
• I can get rid of 1-2 CARDS in a match (I say cards because you can target ANYTHING on the board. ANYTHING. At INSTANT speed.)
• THEN!!! Oh my God, THEN! Extract them on the same turn to get rid of the rest of those cards in that damn deck. Ugin, Karn... Emmy not so much, BUT you COULD exile her as her reshuffle goes on the stack then you put Extraction on the stack.

Surgical Extraction - Is an all around GREAT card for us because we already are (supposed to be) running 6-8 discards. Couple that with the added Quarters, 1-2 Lili's you may have and the... ERMAGERD green splash for Beast Within you're sitting at 11-16 chances to get something YOU WANT in the GY to slow their shiznit down.


I am now done with my splash rant and will proceed to be straight BW.... Have a great night.

I kinda like the list a bit better than the red splash that people have been posting about. Although personally I dislike having actual creatures on the field. My build just has spells to create tokens. The biggest thing for me is being able to destroy things on the field other than creatures. Like Enchantments or Walkers. I really like the fact that you will have a favorable matchup against Merfolk with this build, And most likely Affinity. My thoughts on Abrupt Decay are that besides the control decks that would counter it, I think it's overrated. Have you thought about replacing it with Beast Within? This card hits, Ugin, Karn, Eldrazi fatties. Anything that is trying to get to you. Once Ugin hits it's hard to come back. Just a thought. +1 for this deck tho

I'd be interested in seeing how your mana base reflects the red coming in.

When you build a token deck sure it's a flex deck in comparison to other decks... However, depending on the core and shell you must build accordingly. Like how you want 5-7 removals. Well, we all know that Path to Exile should be an auto playset so really you can only put 1-3 more. Out of those cards what is the BEST removal within your meta and especially within your shell.

So if you're playing the Bitterblossom Shell, you most likely wouldn't want to include Dismember as 4 life is a BIG chunk along with the Fetches, Shocks and Thougthseizes. So you're left with Murderous Cut for your shell and for your meta you could possibly include Zealous Persecution.
The problem with Outnumber is three-fold. 1. It's out of our colors in the first place. 2. There's no options to aim it at a player. and 3. It's reliant on a positive board state... So you wasted a slot for a dead draw, you may not even have the color to cast it, and it may not be strong enough for what you'd want to do.

I've said it time and time again, when looking for cards look for 'options' within a single piece of cardboard. "What do you mean?" - Well, pointing out Planeswalkers like:

• Sorin, Solemn Visitor: 1. Optional temp buff and extreme lifegain, 2. Emergency button Creature Gen, and 3. An ULT that destroys non-token creature based decks.
• Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: 1. Second turn beat stick, 2. Creature Gen with no negative side, and 3. A perma Emblem to buff all your creatures THAT you can pop the turn he comes out.
• Liliana of the Veil: 1. She destroys combo and tempo decks with the +1, 2. Provides MORE creature removal for us, and 3. TOTALLY disrupts their board state.

If they're not attacking my life, that means I'm staying alive another turn. Let them try and kill the Walkers.
What else are options... Well we do have:

• Timely Reinforcements: This is an option that is a mandated type thing. Although we can control our life with Fetches and Shocks and Thoughtseizes and Bitterblossom, Oh MY!
• Zealous Persecution: I use 2 MB because it gets rid of mana dorks, shuts down or slows down Infect, and at the best it's a pseudo anthem for late game finishes. I love it.

I love how the cards that have came out of late the first impression of the cards are 'useless' except the few people that see the true potential. Sorin SV was 'useless' and thie Gideon first coming out was 'meh'... And now look. I agree with Gideon ALTHOUGH I don't know if my build as of right now would put him at 2 or 3. I run 3x Sorin, 2 Lili, and 1 Gideon.

Quote from Ignithas1 »

Some pros run her and some don't. She is incredibly undercosted, but in a deck that is heavyly synergy based, undercosted sometimes isn't enough to justify the slot. Like I said, it depends a lot of your meta and in which direction you want to take the deck.

I don't play Zelous Persecution MB and I only play one Winbrisk, which I don't want to cut.

Everything in Tokens is Meta based besides the "Core". This deck has so much flex it's stupid. While I agree Liliana is a meta-call I think if you're going to run the Bitterblossom shell, you should be running her. It really isn't hard to spit her AND Spectrals out with 3 lands as long as you ARE playing with Fetid Heath.

I play with a MB removal package consisting of 4x Path to Exile, 2x Zealous Persecution and 2x Liliana of the Veil. I count Lili removal because just like the deck, she has flex.

I enjoy Liliana of the Veil and think if you can afford her in the deck she will reward you more times than you can count. All you need is a Bitterblossom, Intangible Virtue, and a Liliana of the Veil against most control MU's to win. The rest of your draws just supplement the game.

I've seen people play Boseiju in a non-BB shell and it works decent as a 1-of. Other than that I wouldn't play it.
I could see a max of a 1-of MB or SB of Infernal Tutor. Idk how it would work. I would like a double anthem though.

Let's wait and see what else this set gives us before we say she's not worth it.

But like I said you can always replace the Vampiric Rites with another land.

Quote from Rutherjc19 »

How on gods green earth do you do just fine on 22 land?!? lol is it due to 11 fetch lands? how has that worked for you? and have you attended any events recently with a good record? none of this is condescending i promise. I'm genuinely curious because I would love to be able to drop down my land count and add in some more threats and viable cards

Well. 8 Fetches, 2 Filter Lands and 1 Buddy Land makes for an easy time getting my mana base online. I'm only playing with 4x 4 CMC cards MB. The others I really don't need but 3 or less to make the play. If you want you could always replace the Vampiric Rites for another basic land. I've been to a couple locals and I've had no problems.

This is my Token Deck I'm using right now. I haven't had any porblems with the heavy Walker build. It's been WONDERFUL.


EDIT: I'm testing a 1-of Vampiric Rites in place of a 1-of Thoughtseize

Quote from Phone »

I just came across this card: Devouring Greed. I think this could be some real interesting tech as a two-off to just finish the game off. Like a four mana triple bolt.

T2: Virtue
T3: Spectral
T4: 6 from attackers, and 8 from Devouring Greed.

I haven't tested this out, but I'm curious if anyone else has tried this before I got at it?

You never want to sacrifice your creatures in a token deck unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure it will end the opponent. Plus Devouring Greed IMO is too constricting. You have: Fae, Soldiers, Spirits and now Warriors in a token deck. Singling out one type will net you a lackluster profit half the time and a decent profit close to none of the time.

I've never had a problem moving the deck around with 23 lands. Since the majority of my spells are 3 or less it shouldn't be an issue with 23. But that's just my preference.

The point to having 4x Bitterblossom isn't necessarily to put more than one on the field but to improve our chances of having it to put out on the T2 or T3.

If you haven't felt the power of Liliana of the Veil then you should stop playing. There are cards we can throw away. Lingering Souls is a card we potentially can chunk if need be early game to get a T4 Flashback and Thoughtseize in as well as another discard from Lili. That's if the mana is slow. She ALLOWS us to be a bit lax on spot removal.

Bitterblossom / Liliana of the Veil shell should be used together. I've won a LOT of games with just those two cards and an Intangible Virtue on the field. The power of Bitterblossom comes from longevity. How long will it be on the field? Will my opponent rather blow up an anthem of mine, or the token generator itself. These are things my opponent has to decide on.

I'm sorry that you feel the way you do about Lili and BB.