According to this Grixis Shadow as a seperate entity is tier 2. I think this furthers the argument that it warrants its own thread.
In addition Grixis Delver is climbing as a tier 2 deck. It's a great time to be a Grixis player.
I've been playing a couple of variants of Grixis Shadow and I seem to have better success with the list that uses Delver of Secrets instead of Street Wraiths. Ya I lose some consistency with the deck but I feel like I lack the extra threat Delver serves. Hand hate is really good in the current meta so I'm running the following list with good success:
I guess we'll keep talking about it here until someone wants to make a primer.
I like it, I tried Rise//Fall but I decided to go for the forth bolt. Most lists are running 2-3 bolts because Push is that good, but Snap Bolt Snap is still viable, and it makes starting hands with multiple snapcasters as your only threat not feel as bad. I wish I had some room for an extra terminate in the main but I don't think I could go with only one K Command. How is it working for you?
I'm still tempted to do something awful and have Street Wraiths in the side to swap out with Delvers. I'm pretty sure it's an awful idea but Wraith just makes your shadows that much better when you're playing against a deck that doesn't do fast amounts of damage to you.
Believe me I'll defend Delver to death and I miss having an early evasive threat but having a deck that's nearly immune to bolt and push but plays more threats than standard Grixis Control feels great. I'm starting to wish we had a separate thread to discuss it, there's plenty of Grixis Shadow variants and not all of them involve having Delver which would be outside of the scope of this thread. Plus I'd like a primer specific for Grixis Shadow decks. Just my opinion.
This list is all over the place, baubles and wraiths mess with delver flips, maindeck ancestral, incomplete snaps. And if you're not playing a full set of DS there's no point in having the wraiths, thoughtsieze, and the more painful manabase. It's like you tried to combine delver, shadow, and control decks. If you were only going to have 2 death's shadows I'd just run a standard delver deck since your plan isn't to kill yourself by turn 3.
It's weird testing DS Grixis. I've tried it with Delver and with Street Wraiths and I 50/50 on what I like more. I'll always play a game where I'm missing the other, Delver is an early threat who allows you to get in some early damage or a worst at least soaks up some removal that would have been used on GS/Tasigur/Fish. Street Wraith fits with the losing life game plan and is instant speed draw which is great, it makes you go through your deck faster to find your threats sooner and make DS better. Maybe have both Delvers and Street Wraiths via sideboard? Probably a terrible idea but similar things have been done.
I will say that I don't miss all of the counters, stubborn denial puts in work by itself and against burn you can side in a full set to protect your threats and your face pretty easily.
I kind of wish the Death's Shadow had it's own thread just so we could have more specific feedback.
I think traverse the ulvenwald is the biggest thing that grixis version is missing. The biggest asset is stubborn denial. Rise//Fall also seems like a good idea. I still like keeping Delver in since it makes you not as reliant on Death's Shadow and serves as your best early threat that doesn't need to be set up by delve or killing yourself. But man, this version is hard to play.
And how many terminates are you running to supplement that strategy? No bolts mean you have less ways to remove 5cmc creatutrd because of bolt + block unless you overload on Terminates which risk becoming dead cards. Bolts are almost never dead cards.
Test the more "all in" Shadow Delver.Stubborn Denial is legit. My biggest problem with it before is that it wasn't as explosive as the Jund version, there weren't any Temur Battle Rages and goyf backups to really make killing yourself as fast as possible worth it. But carefully moderating your life total with enough counters to keep just from dying is easily accomplished with Stubborn.
As for him as a two of in the standard version I think he still has his advantages of YP. You already have the tools to bring your lifedown by naturally playing Grixis colors and he's a far better endgame top deck than YP. Makes Chalice on 1 a lot more backbreaking though.
I've been using 2 Deaths Shadow in the standard to replace pyro with good results. I miss being able to go wide, and it makes us very reliant beefy, conditional creatures. Would 2 YP make a good sideboard card? If so, which matches would he shine in that DS wouldn't? I would think grindy matches.
I've been trying 2 copies of DS in place of Young Pyro with moderate success. It's a far better top deck but not great in grindy games. I could see a place for him if want some more non delve threats and don't like YP.
As a visiting Grixis player who has trouble with burn I find Grim the second on my "must kill" list next to Eidolon (if he's not countered)
The value of having that one creature that has reach when you're empty handed aI have a board of flipped delvers, Tasigurs and Anglers is very powerful.
I've been trying DS too, it's got some neat tricks (shocking yourselves to beef up two Shadows for lethal) but our deck doesn't have the same explosiveness as Jund. I often found myself wishing I had a delver or a tasigur, and I'm used to doing my best to stay at a high life total by virtue of playing Grixis colors.
I think I'll shave him down to just 2 copies and replace YP and see how I like that. He's a much better topdeck.
According to this Grixis Shadow as a seperate entity is tier 2. I think this furthers the argument that it warrants its own thread.
In addition Grixis Delver is climbing as a tier 2 deck. It's a great time to be a Grixis player.
I guess we'll keep talking about it here until someone wants to make a primer.
I like it, I tried Rise//Fall but I decided to go for the forth bolt. Most lists are running 2-3 bolts because Push is that good, but Snap Bolt Snap is still viable, and it makes starting hands with multiple snapcasters as your only threat not feel as bad. I wish I had some room for an extra terminate in the main but I don't think I could go with only one K Command. How is it working for you?
I'm still tempted to do something awful and have Street Wraiths in the side to swap out with Delvers. I'm pretty sure it's an awful idea but Wraith just makes your shadows that much better when you're playing against a deck that doesn't do fast amounts of damage to you.
I will say that I don't miss all of the counters, stubborn denial puts in work by itself and against burn you can side in a full set to protect your threats and your face pretty easily.
I kind of wish the Death's Shadow had it's own thread just so we could have more specific feedback.
As for him as a two of in the standard version I think he still has his advantages of YP. You already have the tools to bring your lifedown by naturally playing Grixis colors and he's a far better endgame top deck than YP. Makes Chalice on 1 a lot more backbreaking though.
The value of having that one creature that has reach when you're empty handed aI have a board of flipped delvers, Tasigurs and Anglers is very powerful.
I think I'll shave him down to just 2 copies and replace YP and see how I like that. He's a much better topdeck.