It's very slow. You need at least five mana in play, which is quite difficult and not how you want an average game to go anyway. Dryad Arbor is nice because it doesn't require the activation each turn, can be fetched and is better against Liliana.
If Grixis Delver is that popular, you can stand to cut down to 3 Cryptic Command, and maindeck a Roast or two. Lightning Bolt should be in your deck in some numbers.
As for sideboarding, Thragtusk is great against them, as is cheap countermagic such as Dispel and Negate.
What do people think of Dromoka's Command? I'm already splashing white for a maindeck Path to Exile and a couple of SB cards, and I figured that Command might be just as good in Infect as it has been in the CoCo decks. Thoughts?
Of note: Stops damage-based sweepers and removal, and the fight mode is solid with the wither effect if you're desperate.
Well, you shouldn't board Titan in for the mirror, and Batterskull is almost unplayable right now. How has Thrun been? I've tried him out before and wasn't particularly impressed.
I can't recommend Thragtusk and Surrak Dragonclaw highly enough. Both of those cards have been absolutely stellar against Jund and Twin, respectively. Primal Command is another versatile card that you can board in against everything except Affinity, and I've liked that card as well.
I like 1-2 Izzet Charm. Having another answer to a Liliana of the Veil while on the draw is very good, as is killing a Dark Confidant ASAP. I think you almost have to play at least one, and exactly one has been good for me.
how come you don't like peer when 90% of our play cards are sorcery's or instants? and it also digs for 5?
I find it's the best card for finding what we need in any given matchup at any given time. Of course when i side in the creature package i remove some of them, but that's because we then operate in another plan.
What i dislike of roast is:
A- While i understand that in theory it's a good answer to grixis control delve tasigurs/anglers, in practice it's a liability because they run 3 spell snares
B- It's not an instant, thus plays not so good with cryptic/remand, and not good vs twin.
C- It also dosen't go for flyers, it dosen't seem important, but it is... especially against affinity.
I still need to try into the roil to see if the cantrip is better then the possibility of the cyclonic rift overload.
I also dislike that you have too many 1 of's, and 2 of cards. Probably in my list running 4 peer it would make more sense, since u see more cards, but without them, it seems too inconsistent, drawing the ones u don't want at the wrong times.
Peer doesn't find lands, and I found that I was cutting it in nearly every matchup because I bring in some cards it can't find and because it's the worst cantrip most of the time. Anticipate is a lot more versatile. As for Roast, you have to play at least one copy. The most common way Delver beats you is by landing a delve creature fast, and Roast takes care of that cleanly. I've added a second because I've liked it a lot and because Jund is very popular. My one-ofs are a result of tuning, and I'd rather have three different cards that I can find with cantrips that are good in different matchups than three copies of one card that is only good in one place.
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Nissa, Vastwood Seer is complete trash. She does almost literally nothing. The 4/4 doesn't block favorably against Goyf and delve creatures, and if I have 6-7 lands in play I would much rather cast Inferno Titan, Thragtusk or Surrak Dragonclaw.
I figured I would share my current decklist, as it's been really successful for the last week or so. I think I have the right split of removal and cantrips given the current state of the metagame, as well as a strong sideboard that maintains power and versatility. Let me know what you think!
Maindeck possibilities: Peer Through Depths, Farseek, a fourth Island. I'm not a huge fan of any of these changes, though. My mana has been totally fine, and I don't like Peer very much. Cutting a Roast is reasonable.
Right now in the sideboard i have 2 pyroclasms + 1 Electrolyze
I used anger during a time in the side, but against affinity and zoo double RR on turn 3 sometimes is too much of a pain or life loss that just adds up.
If i suspect alot of zoo, i rather go with firespout.
I'm not a fan of sideboarded Electrolyze. Rather low-impact. I also think that Firespout is just better than Pyroclasm right now, because the extra damage is relevant against CoCo and Swiftspear.
Ha. Well, this is more fun! Thanks for pointing it out!
I presume you are being facetious with the comment of Vapor Snag being superior to Unsummon for the purposes of Infect. The regular damage drawback of taking 1 damage to yourself by bouncing your own creature far outweighs the possibility of bouncing your opponent's creature and having that 1 extra regular damage make a difference. Now if that was "take 1 poison counter..."
With this idea in mind I may brew something up with eliminating Wild Defiance altogether and throwing Monastery Siege in the sideboard. I see Mutagenic Growth and Monastery Siege being swappable in that regard. G1 go /yoloswag and race for Infect damage. G2 and G3 when the match slows down (assuming you aren't facing another fast combo deck), take out the Mutagenic Growths and put in the CA engine or protection option that Siege provides. Siege would be a great replacement to Mutagenic in basically any matchup involving red or a midrange deck.
I kill with damage a reasonable amount of the time, so for me I think the 1 life may matter a nonzero amount of the time. Whatever, man. As for Siege, I have been really liking it in my sideboard. Very powerful against all manner of decks (not Affinity, but most everything else).
Anyone have any additional insight regarding their playtesting of Serum Visions, mainboard Spell Pierce and/or Dismember, or any other techy cards MB or SB?
Maindeck Spell Pierce and removal spell of choice is absolutely correct. Not sure how techy Sylvan Scrying or Vendilion Clique are, but both have been pretty solid for me when I drew them.
Epic Confrontation sounds just worse than anything we could be playing in our maindeck. It's more or less only good to kill cheap creatures (which Dismember does) or alongside pump spells (which is less consistent and also probably worse than just killing them). Hunt the Hunter sounds like it could be well positioned if we see a bit more CoCo.
I think it requires too much build-around to be better than any of the normal versions. We are a control deck, so we basically have to Quicken it or else it helps the opponent more. At that point, it needs too much to be good IMO.
I don't really want Path and Pierce vs. the same decks, though. Since they're both one-ofs, I think it's relatively safe to play both in the main. Postboard I can just take out the one that's bad in the matchup. Casting Path hasn't been difficult yet, but I'll continue to test with it to see if it's a problem too often.
As for Dismember, I found that I strongly disliked it against the Abzan Company decks. Their clock became a real issue for me if I had to cast even one Dismember, and two is just really hard on my life total. Fetch-shocking once or just having a Hierarch in play is a great deal easier on my life, and I find killing Kitchen Finks and Voice of Resurgence outright to be very important.
Against BGx, their Tarmogoyfs are very frequently 5/6 against us because we play artifacts and enchantments (plus the occasional dead Liliana from their side), and Dismember just wasn't doing it for me.
Glistener Elf actually fits better than Plague Stinger in the second scenario, since you can play it with one mana up and protect it a turn earlier. I'm just looking for a list which allows me to play an Infecter with one mana open as early and as frequently as possible.
Maybe playing a couple of Birds of Paradise will be helpful. You can stick an Elf with double protection or a two-drop with protection up more consistently. Birds also facilitates the BUG shell a bit better.
I figured I'd post my current decklist here, for the betterment of all (and if you've got some feedback and potential changes given the metagame I'd love to hear them):
I'm currently splashing white just for Path to Exile, because I want the extra versatility but don't think a semi-transformational sideboard is at all worth the cost in slots.
Things I'm iffy about on the list:
# Counterspells - Anywhere from 4-6 could be correct.
# Removal - 2 or 3 Paths?
# Wild Defiance - I have been liking 2, but 3 seems pretty nice to have access to.
As for sideboarding, Thragtusk is great against them, as is cheap countermagic such as Dispel and Negate.
Of note: Stops damage-based sweepers and removal, and the fight mode is solid with the wither effect if you're desperate.
I can't recommend Thragtusk and Surrak Dragonclaw highly enough. Both of those cards have been absolutely stellar against Jund and Twin, respectively. Primal Command is another versatile card that you can board in against everything except Affinity, and I've liked that card as well.
Peer doesn't find lands, and I found that I was cutting it in nearly every matchup because I bring in some cards it can't find and because it's the worst cantrip most of the time. Anticipate is a lot more versatile. As for Roast, you have to play at least one copy. The most common way Delver beats you is by landing a delve creature fast, and Roast takes care of that cleanly. I've added a second because I've liked it a lot and because Jund is very popular. My one-ofs are a result of tuning, and I'd rather have three different cards that I can find with cantrips that are good in different matchups than three copies of one card that is only good in one place.
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Nissa, Vastwood Seer is complete trash. She does almost literally nothing. The 4/4 doesn't block favorably against Goyf and delve creatures, and if I have 6-7 lands in play I would much rather cast Inferno Titan, Thragtusk or Surrak Dragonclaw.
2 Breeding Pool
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Flooded Grove
2 Forest
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Creatures (7)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Roast
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Serum Visions
Instants (16)
1 Anticipate
4 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
1 Into the Roil
1 Izzet Charm
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
1 Repeal
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Firespout
1 Gigadrowse
1 Inferno Titan
1 Krosan Grip
1 Negate
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primal Command
2 Shatterstorm
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
1 Thragtusk
Maindeck possibilities: Peer Through Depths, Farseek, a fourth Island. I'm not a huge fan of any of these changes, though. My mana has been totally fine, and I don't like Peer very much. Cutting a Roast is reasonable.
Sideboard possibilities: Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Relic of Progenitus, Swan Song, Spellskite, Ancient Grudge, Vendilion Clique, Counterflux, Thrun, the Last Troll, Keranos, God of Storms, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. I'm only seriously considering Grudge over a Shatterstorm so that I can bring it in vs. Tron and Amulet, as well as the fourth cheap anti-blue card. The others are random value or Primal Command targets.
I'm not a fan of sideboarded Electrolyze. Rather low-impact. I also think that Firespout is just better than Pyroclasm right now, because the extra damage is relevant against CoCo and Swiftspear.
I kill with damage a reasonable amount of the time, so for me I think the 1 life may matter a nonzero amount of the time. Whatever, man. As for Siege, I have been really liking it in my sideboard. Very powerful against all manner of decks (not Affinity, but most everything else).
Maindeck Spell Pierce and removal spell of choice is absolutely correct. Not sure how techy Sylvan Scrying or Vendilion Clique are, but both have been pretty solid for me when I drew them.
As for Dismember, I found that I strongly disliked it against the Abzan Company decks. Their clock became a real issue for me if I had to cast even one Dismember, and two is just really hard on my life total. Fetch-shocking once or just having a Hierarch in play is a great deal easier on my life, and I find killing Kitchen Finks and Voice of Resurgence outright to be very important.
Against BGx, their Tarmogoyfs are very frequently 5/6 against us because we play artifacts and enchantments (plus the occasional dead Liliana from their side), and Dismember just wasn't doing it for me.
Maybe playing a couple of Birds of Paradise will be helpful. You can stick an Elf with double protection or a two-drop with protection up more consistently. Birds also facilitates the BUG shell a bit better.
4x Blighted Agent
4x Glistener Elf
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
Instants (19)
2x Apostle's Blessing
3x Become Immense
2x Groundswell
2x Might of Old Krosa
4x Mutagenic Growth
1x Path to Exile
1x Spell Pierce
4x Vines of Vastwood
2x Distortion Strike
4x Gitaxian Probe
Enchantments (1)
1x Wild Defiance
Lands (20)
2x Breeding Pool
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Pendelhaven
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
1x Carrion Call
3x Dispel
3x Nature's Claim
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Path to Exile
1x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
1x Sylvan Scrying
2x Twisted Image
1x Wild Defiance
I'm currently splashing white just for Path to Exile, because I want the extra versatility but don't think a semi-transformational sideboard is at all worth the cost in slots.
Things I'm iffy about on the list: