@ Luminum Can: Any chance you can contact them to get the credit corrected? Or is there just really no point to that by now?
* * *
In general, it's interesting that only one of these (unless I'm miscounting) has shown up in M12 so far. So I'm hoping the remainder are going to be Innistrad, or mostly so.
I haven't checked whether they're in M12 or out according to the collector's numbers they should have. Might be an interesting experiment. Too tired now though, maybe next week.
This will go in my Rosheen mana ramp EDH deck. Hydras make a grand entrance at 16+ damage.
Other than EDH / casual, I don't see it happening.
Part of the tournement legs for this card depends on a set that hasn't been released yet. So, in the current meta, yes, this isn't that much of a constructed powerhouse, but maybe in the future where we don't needs roads, there will be some support for this.
And yes, Hydras would be able to make a pretty amazing entrance with this card. Them and anything with deathtouch, really. I like how this card is a subtle enabler for any type of creature, although of course it'll work better with a certain few.
EDIT @ Longshanks: More like air-support for Valakut. I don't see how I'd replace the ol' volcano with a 6 CMC. Unless you meant the deck Valakut. At which point after Val cycles out we'll see what happens then, i think. I doubt it though.
As has been pointed out here elsewhere, Immersturm has about as much to do with Innistrad as Bolas has rulership of Boros or Tezzeret being an Izzet Guilder. Names being similar means absolutely nothing.
Anyways. As far as the card goes, yes, that looks like a lot more fun in casual than it does constructed / limited. Maybe. That is definately a Johnny card though. Johnny Senses Tingling!!
Although the biggest concern I have with Warstorm Surge is getting that 6 CMC beast out into play at all. Genesis Wave, sure. But I'd rather put into a R/B deck to pair it with Vampires who can use this to eat something and get +1 +1's as they resolve. So doing the wave is out, for me. Other than the CMC, yeah, I like that card.
And as far as the Immersturm reference, curioser and curioser...
EDIT @Tranquilo: Just cast a weenie first - like the 0 CMC 1/1 out of Scars block - and tag your opponent's face with it. Then cast your Bloodthirst creature. Easy peasy.
EDIT #2 - Holy moly. Just realized. Warstorm Surge + Splinter Twin? That could be sick even without the Exarch. OUCH. Ok, my trade targets just changed...
So... gothic-style, check. Witch hunter-types that could have come straight out of The Dark, check. Death galore, check. Flashback flashes back, check. Preview art that sends good chills up my spine the way that Homelands SHOULD have done, check.
Awesome set in store for us come October?
Check.
Angelic Destiny artwork is awesome - I put it up as my desktop wallpaper despite it being a bit grainy at that size. Followed closely by the Skirsdag Cultist art. If they maintain that level of quality for the entire set, and keep the 18th-century feel then I'll be looking into acquring many of the prints of these cards from the artists. They are THAT good.
Btw, to all those who called Flashback in the Innistrad spec thread, congrats. To those who called Dredge, well, good luck, and no offense - I still hope you're wrong. However... Flashback, Unearth, and Dredge all in one block? Now that? THAT would kick posterior pretty seriously.
I may not like that particular mechanic, but a trio like that would look GOOD. And play better...
Will Innistrad be totally bleak and dark? Who knows. But it will have a strongly dark and somber tone, even if there are bright spots within it.
That's a pretty apt description of The Dark. Which, I could see them doing something along those lines, where every color's given a bleak, grim feel. I mean, it's been long enough since The Dark, right?
Anyways, I agree Luminum. With Vess only now starting to realize she's gone bonkers, and her being in the art with at least one corpse - the guys in back may or may not be dead - that seems to be a good read of what little info we have at this time. That's what I was thinking, too. We'll see in time...
I believe that the so-called 'corrupted' version you mention of Sarkhan and Tezzeret have far more to do with now serving Bolas than they do being exposed to black mana in one form or another.
IE, Tezzeret's ressurection at the claws of Bolas, and Sarkhan's incremental loss of sanity following his dark inspiration upon meeting what is the multiverse's most uncontestedly powerful dragon. To be honest, it seems nothing and no one that directly serves Bolas can come away from it without the attitude of black mana.
Ambition, treachery, win-at-all-costs attitude? They now both have that, and it had nothing to do with any exposure to black mana. Rather, it has everything to do with the fact that anyone who doesn't have those traits whilst serving Bolas is dead sooner than those who don't, at those hands of those who do.
That's a motivation of mere survival, folks. Garruk isn't worrying about his own survival in a deadlier-than-normal atmosphere of do-or-die indenture, he's worrying about his own salvation, plain and simple, from an unwanted and seemingly difficult to repel curse that may or may not have taken complete control of him in any way. He's desperate. That's not a trait of black mana...
This combo engine works with any of a number of cards around it (ie creature-goes-to-grave trigger cards) to power out some pretty sick effects.
But I'm only going to use it in casual, it doesn't seem competitive enough for me as-is to take to constructed. If I did go to tourneys with it, I'd only do so if I had a nice combo trio. And I have yet to find a good candidate for combo ingredient #3.
So, on MaRo's twitter he points out that Innistrad takes place on the plane of... Innistrad. Definitely not Ulgrotha, and therefore, that's probably not Baron Sengir.
Before I say anything, I agree with you for the most part on that.
That said, there are still two possibilites - probably unlikely at best - that it still could have the Baron boppin' around in Innistrad.
One- This could be the plane he landed on after going through the Dwarven Gate with his army.
Two- Ulgrotha could have been drastically changed to become Innistrad.
We know from the story of Homelands that the last anyone heard of the Baron he was heading into a planar gate, though it's nature hasn't been absolutely confirmed, either. We never knew where it went, which doesn't require another plane as a destination.
Also, we just witnessed a plane go through a second name change. So that, too, is possible.
In the end, my opinion is the same as yours. That INN isn't set on Ulgrotha and very likely has nothing to do with (humming the theme to The Addam's Family) The Baron's Family (snap-snap)!
On the subject of a GB Garruk due to the curse of the chain veil, I could go either way. Phage the Untouchable was whats-her-face the Red Legend out of Odyssey that was deluged with black mana and hate.
On the other hand, a PW's mana is a choice they make, not something forced upon them, usually. Garruk might be the first to be 'turned' that we know of, but I doubt that would happen. Green and black share some parts of their philosophy and flavor but Garruk seems pure green to me in outlook.
On the subject of Gothic = graveyard, or black mana dominance, or street wraith, etc? Uh, no. They've done Gothic theme in Magic before. It's called The Dark. I know some of you weren't even born when it came out, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Gothic M:tG is nothing new.
In The Dark, the horror and gothic nature was spread across the entire color wheel, which is something they should have done in the Odyssey block and didn't. It was also part and parcel of the theme for Homelands and to a lesser degree Alliances.
Again, gothic horror M:tG is nothing new. Please stop spinning it to mean whatever you want. The likelyhood they'll repeat anything they've done before is a big fat zero percent, so anything you spin it to mean is destined to be wrong, if you base it on past sets.
What I find especially funny is the sets that have been mentioned by others here as guides to gothic horror flavor had zero gothic horror flavor to them. So, no offense, but, hypocrisy - you're doin' it right.
Last thing I'll say. I keep coming back to Strahd, the Vampire Hunter of infamous renown, and the fact Innistrad uses his name has me keenly interested to find out just how far they went with the gothic horror, and if they used the Victorian era or Georgian era ideals of it. No matter what, while I know I won't hear anything on the flavor they went with for a while, that isn't stopping me from trying to guess.
to get back to INN spec; at the very least, consider that liliana is a necromancer right? There's a dead vampire on the ground, and undead guys in the back. To me, that implies that a large source of carcasses, once living ones, is necessary to support these types. If wrewolves are in this set, I'd expect them to be green. So what blue/red/white need to be is quasi-human to justify the victim role within black. Cleric could make a return, as its been only a small sub-tribe for the last while. Note the clerics in NPH.
What I'm most interested in though, is what ramifications INN will have story wise, what with Karn and the phyrexians around.
This can be true. We won't know for months.
Wait for it...
But.
That being said, you need to keep in mind that preview art deliberately never tells the whole story. In this case the tagline indicates there WILL be a flavor and / or game play curveball in Innistrad. So that means the art may be less trustworthy than usual.
I mean, that platinum angel art they used to preview Scars? How much did you take from that, and how much of your thoughts on it came true? Same for any other block, too.
The only things I take from the art are this - that vampires will still be a viable deck type, that Lilliana will be a big part of this block, and that Lilliana will get a second PW card.
Also, I take some hints from the set symbol too. But those are far more ephemeral than the art inspires. Hydra, crown, symbol from Vess's tiara, etc... All those have intangible ideas to them. In the end, I can't wait for Innistrad, really. Looks good.
Plus, being a johnny spike, I'm looking foward to seeing how it meshes with Scars / MB, and particularly NPH.
Lastly, as far as flavor... going to throw this out there and see what everyone thinks. Flavor of Innistrad - INN being flavor driven - according to my theory?
A perpetually night shrouded world. Not sure if Shadowmoor already did that. If it did, well that sucks, if not... could be a cool plane to visit, yes?
Having looked at this idea myself, I would suggest finding a cheap way to add lifelink to the Souleater if possible.
As was pointed out earlier, Turn 2 win combo decks are really fragile, if you want to stand a chance in constructed you need this to either have, or be, a backup plan of something else.
I may be wrong on the lifelink, it depends on the layers that Lifelink and Infect are acting on. I haven't checked that yet, this idea's not a high priority for me atm, sorry.
~NytDragon
PS I'm more interested in using Batterskull / Immolating Souleater / Infect as a nice finsher, myself. Seems gruesome enough that it'd get two thumbs - er, claws up from Geth and each of the Iron Thanes...
EDIT - Oops! Forgot the wording on Fling, it doesn't enable Infect, sorry, disregard. Guess the morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet, my mistake.
There's reason to believe that the Titans will be in M12. Not really confirmed, but it's looking likely.
If the Titans are reprinted in M12, then I think the chances that Innistrad will have favourable card interactions with the Titans is a decent one. When we know more about M12 & INN we'll have a better idea.
I also don't have any issues with that, either. Titans are just another dominant card cycle, I've been playing this game long enough to know that meta-strong cards come, and go. Please keep in mind no card in Magic has been dominant for the last 18 years (amazing, has it really been that long? For M:tG and me, yes, it has - wow - ask me what colors the dinosaurs played with, kids - lol).
I say all that because to me, it's more important to worry about MY cards, and not worry about what my opponent's cards are until I'm at the table. Do I or do I not look at the meta and the card sets? Of course I do! But it's not my priority, what I have is. Just my philosophy.
Which brings me back to Innistrad. There will come a point when we know the set. I am looking forward to that, not just because I'll know the set, but also, because I look forward to everyone's discussion about it, too.
In short - by October, I doubt we'll be talking about Titans anymore, or if we are, what Innistrad cards they combo with / enable.
Which to be honest? Will be kind of a relief... Innistrad is a lot more fun to type / talk about than Titans are, hint, hint, hint...
Somebody in the godbook thread mentioned a new use for JtMS. With Liquimetal Coating and Bludgeon Brawl, you now have.... the Jace Sword!
I like the Karn Liberated being wielded by Karn, Silver Golem idea. Also can do that with Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and Nicol Bolas the Elder Dragon Legend.
Sliver Legion weilding Hivestone via Brawl and Coating? "Get in my hive!' <slam> "Get in my hive!" <slam> "Eeew, yuck! Get off my stone!" <shakes Hivestone off>
As far as humorous combos anyway. On serious ones the Regent / Darksteel Relic combo is enticing. Have her weild a Mox Opal, too, while you're at it.
As far as what happens at the end of turn when the Coating effect ends? Simple, it's not an artifact, so it's not an equipment, so it 'falls off' in that it simply stops being weilded. In the case of Jace or other Planeswalkers, this is the point when I think they use telepathy or violence to be put back down. EDIT - Nevermind, Vulture has a better answer to that, disregard mine...
Edit #2- Holy Cow. I hadn't noticed the Metalcraft ability on the Paladin. Um, that almost puts Brawl and large CMC artifacts into the vicinity of being competitive. Hmm. Intersting, and good catch!
the site is clearly having database issues. this is server side stuff, not client side. we're all going to be affected until they get some more stability in the MySQL database that's sitting behind this whole forum.
there are numerous reasons why these database faults might be occuring but if i had to guess i'd say its related to physical infrastructure at the hosting facility. Amazon's cloud hosting services have been pretty fragged in the last 48 hours, so maybe thats what it is. but i dont know where this site is hosted so i'm just guessing.
anyway, nothing any of us can do. in fact probably next to nothing anyone at MTGS can do other then submit a ticket to customer support at their hosting company.
patience folks.
I think you're probably spot on with that estimate - ie Amazon cloud being at fault. I can't say whether MtGS is on there as I don't know.
However, what leads me to support your guess is that I have hit this error on other internet forums today, other than MtGS. So, it's not just here. Which, I think that means you're right, Metamorph.
I thought WotC had made it as clear as they could without a booming voice from the sky heralded by trumpet blowing angels and thunder and burning bushes that Commander will NOT be controlled by the DCI.
I mean, are you guys still debating and emo raging over this? Give me a break!
Commander IS NOT sanctioned by the DCI and NEVER WILL BE!
This thread needs to be closed!
Good LORD! Sell emo somewhere else, we're all stocked up here!
I haven't checked whether they're in M12 or out according to the collector's numbers they should have. Might be an interesting experiment. Too tired now though, maybe next week.
~NytDragon
Part of the tournement legs for this card depends on a set that hasn't been released yet. So, in the current meta, yes, this isn't that much of a constructed powerhouse, but maybe in the future where we don't needs roads, there will be some support for this.
And yes, Hydras would be able to make a pretty amazing entrance with this card. Them and anything with deathtouch, really. I like how this card is a subtle enabler for any type of creature, although of course it'll work better with a certain few.
EDIT @ Longshanks: More like air-support for Valakut. I don't see how I'd replace the ol' volcano with a 6 CMC. Unless you meant the deck Valakut. At which point after Val cycles out we'll see what happens then, i think. I doubt it though.
Anyways. As far as the card goes, yes, that looks like a lot more fun in casual than it does constructed / limited. Maybe. That is definately a Johnny card though. Johnny Senses Tingling!!
Although the biggest concern I have with Warstorm Surge is getting that 6 CMC beast out into play at all. Genesis Wave, sure. But I'd rather put into a R/B deck to pair it with Vampires who can use this to eat something and get +1 +1's as they resolve. So doing the wave is out, for me. Other than the CMC, yeah, I like that card.
And as far as the Immersturm reference, curioser and curioser...
EDIT @Tranquilo: Just cast a weenie first - like the 0 CMC 1/1 out of Scars block - and tag your opponent's face with it. Then cast your Bloodthirst creature. Easy peasy.
EDIT #2 - Holy moly. Just realized. Warstorm Surge + Splinter Twin? That could be sick even without the Exarch. OUCH. Ok, my trade targets just changed...
Awesome set in store for us come October?
Check.
Angelic Destiny artwork is awesome - I put it up as my desktop wallpaper despite it being a bit grainy at that size. Followed closely by the Skirsdag Cultist art. If they maintain that level of quality for the entire set, and keep the 18th-century feel then I'll be looking into acquring many of the prints of these cards from the artists. They are THAT good.
Btw, to all those who called Flashback in the Innistrad spec thread, congrats. To those who called Dredge, well, good luck, and no offense - I still hope you're wrong. However... Flashback, Unearth, and Dredge all in one block? Now that? THAT would kick posterior pretty seriously.
I may not like that particular mechanic, but a trio like that would look GOOD. And play better...
~NytDragon
That's a pretty apt description of The Dark. Which, I could see them doing something along those lines, where every color's given a bleak, grim feel. I mean, it's been long enough since The Dark, right?
Anyways, I agree Luminum. With Vess only now starting to realize she's gone bonkers, and her being in the art with at least one corpse - the guys in back may or may not be dead - that seems to be a good read of what little info we have at this time. That's what I was thinking, too. We'll see in time...
~NytDragon
IE, Tezzeret's ressurection at the claws of Bolas, and Sarkhan's incremental loss of sanity following his dark inspiration upon meeting what is the multiverse's most uncontestedly powerful dragon. To be honest, it seems nothing and no one that directly serves Bolas can come away from it without the attitude of black mana.
Ambition, treachery, win-at-all-costs attitude? They now both have that, and it had nothing to do with any exposure to black mana. Rather, it has everything to do with the fact that anyone who doesn't have those traits whilst serving Bolas is dead sooner than those who don't, at those hands of those who do.
That's a motivation of mere survival, folks. Garruk isn't worrying about his own survival in a deadlier-than-normal atmosphere of do-or-die indenture, he's worrying about his own salvation, plain and simple, from an unwanted and seemingly difficult to repel curse that may or may not have taken complete control of him in any way. He's desperate. That's not a trait of black mana...
This combo engine works with any of a number of cards around it (ie creature-goes-to-grave trigger cards) to power out some pretty sick effects.
But I'm only going to use it in casual, it doesn't seem competitive enough for me as-is to take to constructed. If I did go to tourneys with it, I'd only do so if I had a nice combo trio. And I have yet to find a good candidate for combo ingredient #3.
Before I say anything, I agree with you for the most part on that.
That said, there are still two possibilites - probably unlikely at best - that it still could have the Baron boppin' around in Innistrad.
One- This could be the plane he landed on after going through the Dwarven Gate with his army.
Two- Ulgrotha could have been drastically changed to become Innistrad.
We know from the story of Homelands that the last anyone heard of the Baron he was heading into a planar gate, though it's nature hasn't been absolutely confirmed, either. We never knew where it went, which doesn't require another plane as a destination.
Also, we just witnessed a plane go through a second name change. So that, too, is possible.
In the end, my opinion is the same as yours. That INN isn't set on Ulgrotha and very likely has nothing to do with (humming the theme to The Addam's Family) The Baron's Family (snap-snap)!
~NytDragon
On the other hand, a PW's mana is a choice they make, not something forced upon them, usually. Garruk might be the first to be 'turned' that we know of, but I doubt that would happen. Green and black share some parts of their philosophy and flavor but Garruk seems pure green to me in outlook.
On the subject of Gothic = graveyard, or black mana dominance, or street wraith, etc? Uh, no. They've done Gothic theme in Magic before. It's called The Dark. I know some of you weren't even born when it came out, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Gothic M:tG is nothing new.
In The Dark, the horror and gothic nature was spread across the entire color wheel, which is something they should have done in the Odyssey block and didn't. It was also part and parcel of the theme for Homelands and to a lesser degree Alliances.
Again, gothic horror M:tG is nothing new. Please stop spinning it to mean whatever you want. The likelyhood they'll repeat anything they've done before is a big fat zero percent, so anything you spin it to mean is destined to be wrong, if you base it on past sets.
What I find especially funny is the sets that have been mentioned by others here as guides to gothic horror flavor had zero gothic horror flavor to them. So, no offense, but, hypocrisy - you're doin' it right.
Last thing I'll say. I keep coming back to Strahd, the Vampire Hunter of infamous renown, and the fact Innistrad uses his name has me keenly interested to find out just how far they went with the gothic horror, and if they used the Victorian era or Georgian era ideals of it. No matter what, while I know I won't hear anything on the flavor they went with for a while, that isn't stopping me from trying to guess.
~NytDragon
This can be true. We won't know for months.
Wait for it...
But.
That being said, you need to keep in mind that preview art deliberately never tells the whole story. In this case the tagline indicates there WILL be a flavor and / or game play curveball in Innistrad. So that means the art may be less trustworthy than usual.
I mean, that platinum angel art they used to preview Scars? How much did you take from that, and how much of your thoughts on it came true? Same for any other block, too.
The only things I take from the art are this - that vampires will still be a viable deck type, that Lilliana will be a big part of this block, and that Lilliana will get a second PW card.
Also, I take some hints from the set symbol too. But those are far more ephemeral than the art inspires. Hydra, crown, symbol from Vess's tiara, etc... All those have intangible ideas to them. In the end, I can't wait for Innistrad, really. Looks good.
Plus, being a johnny spike, I'm looking foward to seeing how it meshes with Scars / MB, and particularly NPH.
Lastly, as far as flavor... going to throw this out there and see what everyone thinks. Flavor of Innistrad - INN being flavor driven - according to my theory?
A perpetually night shrouded world. Not sure if Shadowmoor already did that. If it did, well that sucks, if not... could be a cool plane to visit, yes?
~NytDragon
As was pointed out earlier, Turn 2 win combo decks are really fragile, if you want to stand a chance in constructed you need this to either have, or be, a backup plan of something else.
I may be wrong on the lifelink, it depends on the layers that Lifelink and Infect are acting on. I haven't checked that yet, this idea's not a high priority for me atm, sorry.
~NytDragon
PS I'm more interested in using Batterskull / Immolating Souleater / Infect as a nice finsher, myself. Seems gruesome enough that it'd get two thumbs - er, claws up from Geth and each of the Iron Thanes...
EDIT - Oops! Forgot the wording on Fling, it doesn't enable Infect, sorry, disregard. Guess the morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet, my mistake.
If the Titans are reprinted in M12, then I think the chances that Innistrad will have favourable card interactions with the Titans is a decent one. When we know more about M12 & INN we'll have a better idea.
I also don't have any issues with that, either. Titans are just another dominant card cycle, I've been playing this game long enough to know that meta-strong cards come, and go. Please keep in mind no card in Magic has been dominant for the last 18 years (amazing, has it really been that long? For M:tG and me, yes, it has - wow - ask me what colors the dinosaurs played with, kids - lol).
I say all that because to me, it's more important to worry about MY cards, and not worry about what my opponent's cards are until I'm at the table. Do I or do I not look at the meta and the card sets? Of course I do! But it's not my priority, what I have is. Just my philosophy.
Which brings me back to Innistrad. There will come a point when we know the set. I am looking forward to that, not just because I'll know the set, but also, because I look forward to everyone's discussion about it, too.
In short - by October, I doubt we'll be talking about Titans anymore, or if we are, what Innistrad cards they combo with / enable.
Which to be honest? Will be kind of a relief...
~NytDragon
I like the Karn Liberated being wielded by Karn, Silver Golem idea. Also can do that with Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker and Nicol Bolas the Elder Dragon Legend.
Sliver Legion weilding Hivestone via Brawl and Coating? "Get in my hive!' <slam> "Get in my hive!" <slam> "Eeew, yuck! Get off my stone!" <shakes Hivestone off>
As far as humorous combos anyway. On serious ones the Regent / Darksteel Relic combo is enticing. Have her weild a Mox Opal, too, while you're at it.
As far as what happens at the end of turn when the Coating effect ends? Simple, it's not an artifact, so it's not an equipment, so it 'falls off' in that it simply stops being weilded. In the case of Jace or other Planeswalkers, this is the point when I think they use telepathy or violence to be put back down. EDIT - Nevermind, Vulture has a better answer to that, disregard mine...
Edit #2- Holy Cow. I hadn't noticed the Metalcraft ability on the Paladin. Um, that almost puts Brawl and large CMC artifacts into the vicinity of being competitive. Hmm. Intersting, and good catch!
I think you're probably spot on with that estimate - ie Amazon cloud being at fault. I can't say whether MtGS is on there as I don't know.
However, what leads me to support your guess is that I have hit this error on other internet forums today, other than MtGS. So, it's not just here. Which, I think that means you're right, Metamorph.
I mean, are you guys still debating and emo raging over this?
Commander IS NOT sanctioned by the DCI and NEVER WILL BE!
This thread needs to be closed!
Good LORD!