Toning your deck down or swapping to a less powered deck is usually something to do for new players or those on a budget. Even then, you can always loam a player a spare deck that is high power deck. Also yea I do enjoy high power decks just like how I enjoy low power decks but usally low powered decks are gimmick deck that uses a very niche area for "lols".
Unless someone plays Divine Intervention and gets it to go off, Commander at the end of the day is about being the last man/woman standing. You can form all the social contracts with the table that are taller than a skyscraper that you want, but the game has to end eventually. But just because a game might end earlier than expected doesn't mean you can't go for more rounds. See that is where I never understand people who get upset about a quick victory, its poor sportsmanship to gripe about another person's fair earned victory.
Oh you're calling me a snob? Are you projecting towards me?
Hmm that is a lot of deck results you have, but lets be honest: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
As you know just as well as I do that you're not going to play the majority of those red cards. You may want to shave a thousand or two off that for good measure.
Each fighter in a fighting game is tuned in specific ways to give them uniqueness from their animations they can cancel, their hit boxes, their hurt boxes, their combos, how they deal with other fighters such as with frame trapping, etc. I'm not a fighting game pro, casual in fact, but even I know these sort of things.
Finding a trick/loophole isn't innovative? Good thing Commander players never rely on such things... OH WAIT! How many times a new card comes out and suddenly there is some previously unheard of trick or loophole to exploit? Its like clockwork at this point.
Possibilities are not as infinite as you believe. We also cut off the chaff and unimportant resources in exchange for more refined resources that are more useful to us. You are rarely if never going to see a Needle Drop played unless its an extremely budget and/or gimmick deck.
This is why commander is great. Between the community generally rejecting competitive play and tuned decklists, the general spirit of brewing, and the enormously large variety of cards and decks, commander still retains that spark of what TCGs were supposed to be about. How can standard ever capture that spirit again? Simple: it cannot. Where there is competition and communcation, there will be tryhards, there will be netdecking. Variety and invention will die and homogeny and repetition will thrive. It doesn't matter how much support standard is given. It doesn't matter how "great" the format is. Standard is the equivalent of a fighting game: strategic, yes, fun, maybe, but there's little innovation or variety, just a honing of skill. Commander is the TCG dream. If it dies, as far as I'm concerned, so does collectible magic.
Oh sweet summer child, that is extremely flawed.
First of all, people getting socially shunned for actually playing to win a game, even if its a game-like activity, is really rude behavior. I heard it before on the internet of "Oh we just eventually decided to keep playing after he won, eventually he just stopped showing up". Commander has THAT sort of stigma attached to it because of people with that mentality.
Tryhards? Oh so you mean people who actually took time out of the day and paid more out of their wallet to build something that they want to enjoy? That even if they netdecked are actually wanting to be invested in the community? People playing at 110% is apparently bad behavior in your eyes.
That last point I bolded in the quote is why I think your mentality is laughable and uninformed. Apparently having a roster of characters is not "variety" in your eyes and apparently you don't pay attention to the fact there is plenty of decks to play in standard. Innovation comes from learning new ways to use the game at a higher skill level, even something like frame cancelling in the original street fighter is the innovation that helped fighting games get a jump start.
You want to know what is killing magic with commander? People with your backwards logic and mentality. Commander is its own worst enemy with people with such mentalities. As speaking about the fighting game community, it gets criticized for its exclusive nature which is something commander has a problem with when competitive minded people want to join in. Commander stopped being a casual-only format a long time ago and only people deluding themselves still believe its just a casual format.
commander participation has no bearing on other formats, and isnt' detracting from participation in those formats unless your lgs is holdings its commander night the same day as its other format events.
Commander participation impacts other formats. People have a limited amount of time and money that they're willing to put into the game. I can get out to play one night a week and I almost always make it an EDH night, which means I'm not playing in some other event. Similar logic applies to money. If I'm spending my MtG budget on EDH related purchases, that's money that I'm not spending on constructed decks/limited or whatever. I don't think that EDH play is a significant factor in whether or not someone is going to play other formats but it's misleading to say that it has no impact at all.
i disagree.
Its just a flavor of magic. I can like cake but hate vanilla cake. For many, even with infinite time and money, they still wouldnt participate in other formats. A good example is that i have a deck for legacy, a competitive one, but i do not go to events. we pick and choose the formats we want to participate in, no one forces themselves to participate in a format they dont enjoy, if you do youre missing the entire point of a leisure activity. Those people would otherwise not be playing magic at all if it meant participating in an event that they dont enjoy vs one they do.
You can use the example of edh players wont spend their money on limited and that impacts limited, but in reality even without edh they wouldnt be spending money on limited if its not something they have interest in.
Edh doesnt trump and cancel out interest in other formats. We dont really stop and go well i can only play one so i choose you, we say this is what i enjoy, i dont enjoy this other one.
Its kind of like pvp in an mmo. I can choose to play the mmo and not pvp. While i am choosing how to spend my time in the game, if i dont like pvp it has zero impact on the pve aspect, and those two aspects can exist simultaneously while not detracting from each other as they appeal to different people who otherwise would not bother with that game if only one game mode existed. Ie, if i want to pvp but it isnt an existing mode ill play a game where it does exist rather than slog through the pve mode.
Say three formats are being held on same friday night, each one of the three at a store within driving distance for consumer. These three are Standard, Modern and Commander. Which do you think people are more likely to attend?
EDH does cancel out interest, not all, but a good proportion out of other formats. See above example.
What? Unless you be goldfishing against the the Theros challenge decks, you are always in PvP. Commander in its multiplayer incarnation is still PvP even if the social contract is in effect.
Doings some thinkings and up to Onslaught block, mtg be fine for the most part on how it affects each format that includes it. Mirrodin onward different story. So many problematic cards started coming out with long lasting effects. Wonders if commander be more manageable if card pool be of alpha to scourge.
Not fan of commander products as it has some cards that push format too much and force it to grow rather than naturally over time before involvement. Other cards appreciated as they actually open up a colors design space and capabilities without bleeding too much as some need catch-up.
Commander is not the sole contributing factor of poor health for game, but it be factor.
You actually weighed Pirates, Squirrels, Myr, Spirits et al as having as much a chance as Dragons in getting one of the four spots? Wow.
You can't really weigh expectations. Myrs are just as valid as dragons. They were also stating how all of those tribes were speculated on and suggested to have a possibility of showing up.
Dimensional Wayfarer does have a point. Unless we are one of the few outlets given cards to reveal, are working for WotC, were on the design team or are leaking a card, we don't know anything. We can make baseless speculations on anything, but that is it at the end of the day. Dragons was just as expected in this thread as anything else in this thread.
Some people just want to be played like a fiddle. Its like that family guy skit with peter and the mystery box where he is offered the box or the boat, but he is more interested in the box because it could be anything and its contents are unknown. Picking the box also makes him disappointed for picking it.
/ / / / / /
Dragons, Goblins, Elves, Humans, Zombies, Merfolk, Angels, Demons and Cats are the most popular tribes right now. Elves are in the anthology. Dragons are revealed. Which leaves Goblins, Humans, Zombies, Angels, Demons and Merfolk.
Goblins and Merfolk are very popular tribes in Commander, Modern and Legacy.
Demons only recently in the past ten years have been expanding outwards into other colors, namely blue and green, but the majority are in red and black.
Humans, Cats, Angels Zombies could easily be blanketed under five color as a tribe. Which is its own grab-bag of problems with making too many five-color decks.
Eldrazi are popular but not necessarily as a tribe, individual pieces of it are quite popular. They would need to actually make Eldrazi with a color identity. As otherwise we just get a third wave of the eldrazi titans who are colorless again.
Slivers are both a loved and hated tribe. If they show up, I would think it would be as their classic look based on the highly negative reaction that was received when slivers were made more humanoid.
I refute Akki_Akki's combo that is Class 4 with a better version of it that is of the same cost but utilizes one more card in order to make it Class 1.
I play Retraction Helix and target the Mentor, get a token. Play Intruder Alarm, get a token. Then Equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token without summoning sickness in order to produce U, activate the Monastery Mentor temporary activated ability to bounce the Paradise Mantle, play the Paradise Mantle from hand, untap my creatures, create a token, spend the remaining U in my pool to equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token. Rinse and repeat the token making process, until each monk you control has 9001 or more power and toughness. Repeat the process one last time but instead of producing U, you instead add R to your pool and then spend it to cast Mass Hysteria.
The number of cards used are five. The combined mana cost is eight.
Akki_Akki refutes your claim with the use of Splinter Twin. Akki_Akki nixes out Refraction Helix, Paradise Mantle, Mass Hysteria. Akki_Akki creates Class 1 combo with Splinter Twin + Monastery Mentor + Intruder Alarm. Three cards, ten cost. Most compact and lethal combo.
Akki_Akki see 5hrs ago for Monkey, 5hrs ago for edit, 5hrs ago for wally. Akki_Akki not sure why time matters unless time somehow refutes Monkey. Anyway, Akki_Akki continue game and refute Monkey with own combo that uses less mana and less cards.
Sorry, but I agree with illakunsaa. In almost every situation, you would be better off with an actually important card than Riftsweeper. As has already been mentioned, being in your deck isn't much better than being in exile.
If you're in a meta where things like imprint and suspend are super common, then I could see it having value. Most of the time, it's a waste of space.
Pull from Eternity, at least, puts the card somewhere that's easier to access. It's also cheaper and instant-speed, giving you more options for use offensively.
I would rather take a Riftsweeper than a Pull From Eternity. Bounce/grave-recursion/blink shenanigans are easier than trying to get multiple uses out of an Instant. I would argue that Spiritfiredoc is much more on point. As to argue that that putting an exiled card into it's owners library is AS GOOD AS keeping it in exile is such a bad statement within itself. As at least if it is within your library you can tutor that back up again with Kaho, Minamo Historian again instead of it being lost forever. What about decks focused around Reito Lantern for their own card synergies like with Grenzo, Dungeon Warden? That bad as well? As it is very similar.
Those for unbanningKarakas
#1) It benefits underplayed and currently played commanders
#2) It has a good amount of answers to it that are not inherently land destruction.
#3) It has fair potential.
Those against unbanningKarakas
#1) It will be used mostly to bounce opponent's creatures and lock them out of the game.
#2) A good amount of answers to it are land destruction.
#3) It makes for annoying gameplay.
Garruk being curious of Nissa, Her being kind but not pitying him. I'd imagine they would share common ground over their distaste with Liliana and her Chain Veil.
I agree that something bad is likely to happen to Gideon, but I think "killing the indestructible guy to show Bolas' power" is too simple. Control magic is a key Bolas ability. If you are faced with a powerful walker who is indestructible, why kill him? Seems like a waste, just take over his mind, make him your servant, and send him back at the gatewatch.
This is why I would have liked to have read something from Tezzeret's perspective. Sarkhan didn't have Bolas tattoos on his forehead, but he was working for Bolas. Tezzeret has the tattoos, but does that mean the tattoos are magic that keeps him under control and in line?
If so, can Bolas apply those markings to anyone to make them his? That would be a tragic outcome for Gideon that wouldn't require his death.
Using the word god in italics as I'm not sure if these are god-gods or planeswalkers-posing-as-gods.
That would be pretty neat, Bolas' planeswalker pawns living as 'gods' on Amonkhet until Bolas sends them out on a task here or there. I still want to see wildman Ramaz as a card somewhere!
EDIT: It would also be hilarious to have the Gatewatch go there, only to be met by another crew of planeswalkers led by Bolas. "Whoops."
Gatewatch meets Nega-Gatewatch? I would like for a Ramaz card as well among well over a baker's dozen worth of other planeswalkers and named characters.
I remember one of the neat things about Amonkhet is that their is a trial system of sorts. Here is the official blurb for that plane on WOTC product page.
The desert oasis of Amonkhet forges warriors. You have trained your entire life for a chance to face the Trials of the Five Gods and join the elite ranks of the Worthy. Using your strength, speed, and cunning, overcome deadly challenges and rise above the competition to claim an honored place in the Afterlife!
Which gets me into thinking that this "afterlife for the worthy" is actually an undead army that Nicol Bolas has been building for who knows how long and that they play a part in Hour of Devastation. Especially considering one of the test booster packs for Hour of Devastation had what appeared to be a undead pharaoh. Which could be how he deals with the Gatewatch.
Liliana could try to command some, but Bolas has a strong necromantic control over them. They might have Jace and his mind magic, but Nicol Bolas made even Jace quake with Bolas's brand of mind magic. Chandra is a very strong pyromancer, but Nicol Bolas I would assume is much more adept at pyromancy than her and also knows the other tricks to red has like Wild Ricochet. Which leaves two members of the party, Gideon and Nissa. We already know something bad might befall Gideon. Nissa is a bit of a wildcard however.
There are a handful of people talking about Seize the Day being the absolute nuts with this guy if you can give him Vigilance (Batterskull, perhaps?) - Sure, I'll have an extra combat step for every creature I control. (Two, if you flash it back).
Yes I called you a "sweet summer child", a game of thrones reference that refers to someone who is naive, not necessarily a child.
If I wanted the highest powered deck, I can stay in Commander, there are plenty of guides on this board. Arcum Dagsson, Zur the Enchanter, Animar, Soul of Elements, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, etc.
Toning your deck down or swapping to a less powered deck is usually something to do for new players or those on a budget. Even then, you can always loam a player a spare deck that is high power deck. Also yea I do enjoy high power decks just like how I enjoy low power decks but usally low powered decks are gimmick deck that uses a very niche area for "lols".
Unless someone plays Divine Intervention and gets it to go off, Commander at the end of the day is about being the last man/woman standing. You can form all the social contracts with the table that are taller than a skyscraper that you want, but the game has to end eventually. But just because a game might end earlier than expected doesn't mean you can't go for more rounds. See that is where I never understand people who get upset about a quick victory, its poor sportsmanship to gripe about another person's fair earned victory.
Oh you're calling me a snob? Are you projecting towards me?
Hmm that is a lot of deck results you have, but lets be honest: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
As you know just as well as I do that you're not going to play the majority of those red cards. You may want to shave a thousand or two off that for good measure.
Each fighter in a fighting game is tuned in specific ways to give them uniqueness from their animations they can cancel, their hit boxes, their hurt boxes, their combos, how they deal with other fighters such as with frame trapping, etc. I'm not a fighting game pro, casual in fact, but even I know these sort of things.
Finding a trick/loophole isn't innovative? Good thing Commander players never rely on such things... OH WAIT! How many times a new card comes out and suddenly there is some previously unheard of trick or loophole to exploit? Its like clockwork at this point.
Possibilities are not as infinite as you believe. We also cut off the chaff and unimportant resources in exchange for more refined resources that are more useful to us. You are rarely if never going to see a Needle Drop played unless its an extremely budget and/or gimmick deck.
First of all, people getting socially shunned for actually playing to win a game, even if its a game-like activity, is really rude behavior. I heard it before on the internet of "Oh we just eventually decided to keep playing after he won, eventually he just stopped showing up". Commander has THAT sort of stigma attached to it because of people with that mentality.
Tryhards? Oh so you mean people who actually took time out of the day and paid more out of their wallet to build something that they want to enjoy? That even if they netdecked are actually wanting to be invested in the community? People playing at 110% is apparently bad behavior in your eyes.
That last point I bolded in the quote is why I think your mentality is laughable and uninformed. Apparently having a roster of characters is not "variety" in your eyes and apparently you don't pay attention to the fact there is plenty of decks to play in standard. Innovation comes from learning new ways to use the game at a higher skill level, even something like frame cancelling in the original street fighter is the innovation that helped fighting games get a jump start.
You want to know what is killing magic with commander? People with your backwards logic and mentality. Commander is its own worst enemy with people with such mentalities. As speaking about the fighting game community, it gets criticized for its exclusive nature which is something commander has a problem with when competitive minded people want to join in. Commander stopped being a casual-only format a long time ago and only people deluding themselves still believe its just a casual format.
EDH does cancel out interest, not all, but a good proportion out of other formats. See above example.
What? Unless you be goldfishing against the the Theros challenge decks, you are always in PvP. Commander in its multiplayer incarnation is still PvP even if the social contract is in effect.
Not fan of commander products as it has some cards that push format too much and force it to grow rather than naturally over time before involvement. Other cards appreciated as they actually open up a colors design space and capabilities without bleeding too much as some need catch-up.
Commander is not the sole contributing factor of poor health for game, but it be factor.
/ / / / / /
Dragons, Goblins, Elves, Humans, Zombies, Merfolk, Angels, Demons and Cats are the most popular tribes right now. Elves are in the anthology. Dragons are revealed. Which leaves Goblins, Humans, Zombies, Angels, Demons and Merfolk.
Goblins and Merfolk are very popular tribes in Commander, Modern and Legacy.
Demons only recently in the past ten years have been expanding outwards into other colors, namely blue and green, but the majority are in red and black.
Humans, Cats, Angels Zombies could easily be blanketed under five color as a tribe. Which is its own grab-bag of problems with making too many five-color decks.
Eldrazi are popular but not necessarily as a tribe, individual pieces of it are quite popular. They would need to actually make Eldrazi with a color identity. As otherwise we just get a third wave of the eldrazi titans who are colorless again.
Slivers are both a loved and hated tribe. If they show up, I would think it would be as their classic look based on the highly negative reaction that was received when slivers were made more humanoid.
Akki_Akki refutes your claim with the use of Splinter Twin. Akki_Akki nixes out Refraction Helix, Paradise Mantle, Mass Hysteria. Akki_Akki creates Class 1 combo with Splinter Twin + Monastery Mentor + Intruder Alarm. Three cards, ten cost. Most compact and lethal combo.
Does Akki_Akki win?
Monastery Mentor + Retraction Helix + Midnight Guard + Springleaf Drum.
Cards = 4
Combined Mana Cost = 8
I would rather take a Riftsweeper than a Pull From Eternity. Bounce/grave-recursion/blink shenanigans are easier than trying to get multiple uses out of an Instant. I would argue that Spiritfiredoc is much more on point. As to argue that that putting an exiled card into it's owners library is AS GOOD AS keeping it in exile is such a bad statement within itself. As at least if it is within your library you can tutor that back up again with Kaho, Minamo Historian again instead of it being lost forever. What about decks focused around Reito Lantern for their own card synergies like with Grenzo, Dungeon Warden? That bad as well? As it is very similar.
Those for unbanning Karakas
#1) It benefits underplayed and currently played commanders
#2) It has a good amount of answers to it that are not inherently land destruction.
#3) It has fair potential.
Those against unbanning Karakas
#1) It will be used mostly to bounce opponent's creatures and lock them out of the game.
#2) A good amount of answers to it are land destruction.
#3) It makes for annoying gameplay.
Gatewatch meets Nega-Gatewatch? I would like for a Ramaz card as well among well over a baker's dozen worth of other planeswalkers and named characters.
I remember one of the neat things about Amonkhet is that their is a trial system of sorts. Here is the official blurb for that plane on WOTC product page.
Which gets me into thinking that this "afterlife for the worthy" is actually an undead army that Nicol Bolas has been building for who knows how long and that they play a part in Hour of Devastation. Especially considering one of the test booster packs for Hour of Devastation had what appeared to be a undead pharaoh. Which could be how he deals with the Gatewatch.
Liliana could try to command some, but Bolas has a strong necromantic control over them. They might have Jace and his mind magic, but Nicol Bolas made even Jace quake with Bolas's brand of mind magic. Chandra is a very strong pyromancer, but Nicol Bolas I would assume is much more adept at pyromancy than her and also knows the other tricks to red has like Wild Ricochet. Which leaves two members of the party, Gideon and Nissa. We already know something bad might befall Gideon. Nissa is a bit of a wildcard however.
Akroma's Memorial? Cast memorial after you casted and flashedback a Seize the Day.
Akki_Akki found some cards that be awesome for Zada.