I've been playing since 1995 myself, with a couple of hiatuses for various, personal reasons, but have seen the game from its relative "roots" through today. Although I'm not much of a vintage player myself, having never bought back into Power 9 cards upon re-entry in the game, I've still played against a lot of Mana Drains over the years, in various nights, formats and competitive levels. I've never had more than 2 Mana Drains at once, so my opinion is schewed, and I'm sort of an old school player, but if I had a set of Mana Drains, I'd build a Vintage deck AROUND them; how competitive said deck would be / could be is another question, but I don't build All of my decks to win tournaments. I have decks "in the workshop," a bunch of "theme" decks, a couple of tier 1 builds, and a lot of fun cards to brew with. But for me, Mana Drain is such an Iconic card, it would be part of Something for me, all 4 of them.
Back in the old days, though, you might not run 4, because you didn't have 4, due to cost, accessibility and other reasons. Today, however, with the glut of new cards, the change in metagame, or whatever, you have noted that Spell Pierce and Mental Misstep might be better cards, situation-wise, and playability-wise. In the old days, you didn't run 4 Mana Drains because you couldn't afford them; these days, you don't run 4 Mana Drains because there are "better" options.
As an "old-timer," that sort of breaks my heart. I still wish I had a set.
It has been interesting to watch the conversation around Risk Factor, as like most "punisher" cards it was sort of initially dismissed. It seems that even the major Internet streamers all bandied about terms like "unplayable" at first, but all seemed intrigued by it being an instant-speed Browbeat with the cool Jump-start mechanic attached. Everyone seems real critical at first, but then finds the card to have an odd sort of inexorable late-game leverage that makes the card surprisingly powerful, especially when other burn/creature pressure has been applied. In the end, it is the most consistent of the "punisher" cards. I personally love it.
But, sort of chiming in with others above, the real hit of the Guilds of Ravnica set, red-wise, has to be Flaming Steam-Kin. I love that card, and I'm thinking of what to do with it and Experimental Frenzy in some sort of Modern burn shell; could be spicy.
I believe that the Exalted trigger would happen after the attack happens. So, once the Hierarch is declared, he is 0 power and can attack freely. Once he actually attacks, Exalted kicks in, and thus he gains +1. This would be my layman's understanding of it.
It's nice to see the uptick in Rakdos Burn, as I've always been a fan of the combo. I've always ran a Mardu Burn just for access to Bump in the Night and have been waiting for that next black "burn" spell to further justify the choice. For awhile, I pondered whether Fatal Push was that card, but that seemed more like sideboard tech than main deck, and of course burn decks want cards that deal actual damage. My eyes welled up when I saw Sovereign's Bite, giving me hopes that this would be the card to seal the Mardu Burn choice. It's nice to hear promising news on the battlefront.
Here's the list I'm sleeving up these days, since the release of Core 19.
For EDH, it seems like "Punisher" would be a tough mechanic to pull off. I play a modern legal "Punisher" deck for fun, and it can be deceptively powerful, and also totally underwhelming, depending on the draw. Here are some cards I like for the "punisher" deck, but my deck is RAKDOS based.
Here are some cards I use in my Rakdos Punisher deck.
I use lots of different things; although not pure "punisher" in concept, I do like the following cards in the deck, and I use 3 of each; the cards are Thunderbreak Regent and Master of the Feast. My next innovation is to find a slot for the Demanding Dragon from Core 19; it seems like a solid addition.
Quote from D90Dennis14 »
Thoughts on Demanding Dragon, is this a playable punisher card ?
I have a way fun, utterly "bad" but sometimes deceptively powerful "punisher" deck like you mention that is going to love the Demanding Dragon. I run a bunch of cool, but considered historically "bad" cards; 4 Browbeat, 3 Sword-Point Diplomacy, 3 Dash Hopes, 2 Torment of Hailfire, 1 Choice of Damnations, 1 Pain's Reward, 4 Vexing Devil, 4 Master of the Feast; I spice this with some good utility cards, 3 Thunderbreak Regent, Lightning Bolts, Terminates... Rakdos goodness. The end result is this ultimate pile of craziness that sometimes "whiffs" and other times, just plows my opponent over. The deck tackles the game from such a weird play angle, it's really quite fun, and the creatures are dynamic enough to affect the board state favorably. I have to figure out what to cut, but Demanding Dragon definitely goes in the deck. Card seems really fun, and like a really fun addition to my most hilarious "theme" deck.
I have a way fun, utterly "bad" but sometimes deceptively powerful "punisher" deck like you mention that is going to love the Demanding Dragon. I run a bunch of cool, but considered historically "bad" cards; 4 Browbeat, 3 Sword-Point Diplomacy, 3 Dash Hopes, 2 Torment of Hailfire, 1 Choice of Damnations, 1 Pain's Reward, 4 Vexing Devil, 4 Master of the Feast; I spice this with some good utility cards, 3 Thunderbreak Regent, Lightning Bolts, Terminates... Rakdos goodness. The end result is this ultimate pile of craziness that sometimes "whiffs" and other times, just plows my opponent over. The deck tackles the game from such a weird play angle, it's really quite fun, and the creatures are dynamic enough to affect the board state favorably. I have to figure out what to cut, but Demanding Dragon definitely goes in the deck. Card seems really fun, and like a really fun addition to my most hilarious "theme" deck.
Although it does come into play tapped, one of my favorite lands for the Abzan base is Murmuring Bosk. Note that is a "Forest" and therefore fetchable with your Windswept Heaths.
So, I took my Bomat Courier-less, splash of Chandra and Karn version of Mono-Red Aggro to FNM tonight, and came away pretty pleased with my results.
Match 1
W, 2-1, W/U Control
Game 1: Game 1 looks to be going in my favor pretty soundly. I get off early Soul-Scar action, double abrade Lyra, think I'm going to get in for the win, only to have 3 successive threats get Cast Out. She takes the game.
Game 2: I explode out of the gates, apply early Soul Scar prowess beatdown with Shock and Lightning Strike support. This one goes quickly in my favor.
Game 3: This was a nice, fun interactive match; she had lots of Cast Outs, but I had more threats; eventual Hazoret discards tilt the table in my favor, and I build a superior ground force for the win.
Match 2
W, 2-0, G/B Saprolings
Game 1: I keep a 2-land hand, with mostly 3 CMC cards in my hand. I thankfully find the 3rd land in short order, and 3 of 3 CMC cards were Chainwhirlers. Saprolings HATE Chainwhirler.
Game 2: This game is better for him, more interaction and black cards to kill my threats, but my threat density is a lot heavier than his removal suite, plus I play red spells that melt face when applied correctly. Easy match win.
Match 3
W, 2-0, W/B Knights
Game 1: I play mountains, and my opponents starts groaning. Chainwhirlers coupled with Soul-Scars do good work to his attacking force, and Hazoret seals the deal.
Game 2: On the draw, I keep a pretty solid hand with Khenra, Shocks, Karn and Glorybringer; seems sort of man deficient but I had 2; thankfully, I draw like 2 lands early, the deck gets flowing, and runs Knights over.
Playing for 1st place, but playing Jacob, basically the best player in the shop. He's playing White/Blue Control. I should have a "chance," but Jacob is the best player in the shop.
L, 0-2, W/B Teferi Control
-I'll just summarize the match; had my deck played "well" both games, I might have had a chance. As we approached the critical moments of Game 2, I thought I might have a chance, but he drew the perfect removal, and defeated me soundly in both matches.
In summary, Chainwhirlers did lots of good work; Red is in a particularly fun place right now, having the guns and the firepower to compete with the more complex, more expensive Tier 1 decks, which there aren't very many of at this point in time. Barring some emergency banning of Chainwhirler, Mono Red looks well positioned for the next few months, but will lose so many critical pieces, it will be forced to re-define, and most likely add a second color. Adding that second color might shore up deficiencies, but will make the RRR of the Chainwhirler difficult to negotiate. So, it will be interesting to see what happens to this "shell" after rotation. At the end of the night, I got 3-1, with two 2-0's, and a nice 6-3 game win/loss record as well. I get 3rd place on tiebreakers, but my packs yield junk. Oh well, was a fun night, had good matches (minus the slaughter in the last round) and placed well. I look forward to slinging more red spells next Friday.
Interesting and nice to see Hollow One take 1st place in Regionals this past weekend, up in New Jersey. After Hollow One put itself on the map, getting some nice finishes, and maybe even a 1st or two, decks like Humans and others seemed to have placed better this spring. So, a nice first place, using a pretty "standard list," but opting to go 1 Fatal Push, 1 Brutality instead of the usual 2 Brutality. Nice.
Though there seem to be lots of different lists and mildly different play-styles because of varying card choices, it does seem that Mono-Red Aggro or some variant is "the deck" to beat in these early days of Dominaria Standard. Some decks are foregoing 1-toughness creatures because of Chainwhirler, most decks are running 4 Chainwhirler themselves, and others are incorporating black.
I've been playing a mono-Red burn deck, but didn't have any Rekindling Phoenix; I managed to pick up one this weekend, and although that will only be seen occasionally, I'm curious to check it out. I often found myself in situations where I alternately loathe/love Bomat Courier. A lot of times, I'll be wanting that fourth land forever, and usually it's because of Bomat. They can be really great; they can be tricky and terrible sometimes. I've opted to cut them for this current build, and hope to pick up another Phoenix in the week ahead.
This deck proves interesting to sideboard against, and there seems to be no single "haymaker" card or strategy that really seals the deal. Although graveyard hate is a strategy that has value, many times the Hollow One deck sort of changes gears, and just casts everything in hand, rather than discarding. Of course, there is value in that, as the deck seems far less explosive that way, but the Hollow One deck is surprisingly versatile and flexible. It seems like Jeskai removal isn't ideally suited for Hollow Ones, as Lightning Bolts don't scare them, and bolting a Bloodghast or a Flamewake Phoenix is an exercise in futility, since they have such nice recursive abilities. Path to Exile does have value, making me wonder if a Declaration in Stone might be a useful addition to the sideboard as well, or something like Chained to the Rocks. All in all, seems like a bad matchup for Jeskai, as Jeskai has tons of tools and seems like a nice toolbox deck, but doesn't have the explosiveness that B/R Hollow One packs. Best of luck in the tourney; hope it turns out well.
I have had a lot of fun with the deck, and some really good results. I had a lovely 4-1 last Friday, coming in 2nd out of 23 for Standard. I only lost two games that whole night, so quite a night of playing...
I have a more "fun" deck for Standard, but I do like "winning." I'll be playing this list a lot until rotation in September.
I too run Amalgams (without blue lands) and that often proves to be a head-scratcher to my opponents in the shop, but I like the added layers of graveyard inexorability that the Amalgam offers; but I run 3 Amalgams and 1 Scourge Devil. I like having a few extra cards I actually "want" in my graveyard, and the Amalgams, Phoenixes, Bloodghasts and 1 Scourge Devil all fill that bill. I am still not running Lightning Bolts, and I still haven't felt that I really ever needed them. When Hollow One EXPLODES out the starting gate, I'm usually so far ahead that I just win. My win/loss ratio is considerably better than 65 to 70% in FNM matches, so I'm surprised your build is having such issues. Street Wraiths are pretty much mandatory though.
Swampwalk on Street Wraith is more useful than I ever imagined originally; there seems to be lots of swamps in my meta. If it gets to the long game, Street Wraith has won me games on the battlefield, although this is a real weird, corner-case scenario.
Question; is there a way to DELETE old decks that you aren't using anymore? I realize it's not hugely important, but in cleaning house, I get kind of type-A anal retentive and wanted to delete a couple of experimental decks I don't use anymore. Any info on this is greatly appreciated.
"Sylvan" is an adjective, and not a location. "Sylvan" means "of or related to the woods or wooded areas." So, the caryatid and the library were merely in wooded locations, and thus were "sylvan."
Internet "trolls" basically have no life, and their mission is to get under your skin. If you are letting the trolls win, then you either need to re-evaluate your goals, re-evaluate the places you frequent on the Internet, or re-evaluate where and how you "display" yourself on the web.
I fail to see why this young lady is even important to the MtG community. It's not apparently because she plays Magic well, it's because she displays herself in skimpy costumes dressed like Chandra or Liliana... She wants a million followers on Instagram or something...
When you freely display yourself on the web, you're going to be subject to some ugly talk. I hate that for the young lady, but this isn't a MtG problem, this is an Internet/Real World problem. Does this girl play tournament level Magic? If she doesn't, then why do we care? I'm not attacking the young lady in my free time, but this hardly seems germane to the conversation on mtgsalvation.com.
Back in the old days, though, you might not run 4, because you didn't have 4, due to cost, accessibility and other reasons. Today, however, with the glut of new cards, the change in metagame, or whatever, you have noted that Spell Pierce and Mental Misstep might be better cards, situation-wise, and playability-wise. In the old days, you didn't run 4 Mana Drains because you couldn't afford them; these days, you don't run 4 Mana Drains because there are "better" options.
As an "old-timer," that sort of breaks my heart. I still wish I had a set.
But, sort of chiming in with others above, the real hit of the Guilds of Ravnica set, red-wise, has to be Flaming Steam-Kin. I love that card, and I'm thinking of what to do with it and Experimental Frenzy in some sort of Modern burn shell; could be spicy.
Here's the list I'm sleeving up these days, since the release of Core 19.
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Boros Charm
2 Lightning Helix
4 Bump in the Night
4 Sovereign's Bite
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
LANDS (20)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
3 Blood Crypt
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Mountain
I'm hoping to have good results, and I'm thrilled to have another black "bullet" in Sovereign's Bite to add to the arsenal.
Here are some cards I use in my Rakdos Punisher deck.
Vexing Devil
Choice of Damnations
Remorseless Punishment
Temporal Extortion
Pain's Reward
Dash Hopes
I use lots of different things; although not pure "punisher" in concept, I do like the following cards in the deck, and I use 3 of each; the cards are Thunderbreak Regent and Master of the Feast. My next innovation is to find a slot for the Demanding Dragon from Core 19; it seems like a solid addition.
Good luck with the deck.
Thoughts on Demanding Dragon, is this a playable punisher card ?
I have a way fun, utterly "bad" but sometimes deceptively powerful "punisher" deck like you mention that is going to love the Demanding Dragon. I run a bunch of cool, but considered historically "bad" cards; 4 Browbeat, 3 Sword-Point Diplomacy, 3 Dash Hopes, 2 Torment of Hailfire, 1 Choice of Damnations, 1 Pain's Reward, 4 Vexing Devil, 4 Master of the Feast; I spice this with some good utility cards, 3 Thunderbreak Regent, Lightning Bolts, Terminates... Rakdos goodness. The end result is this ultimate pile of craziness that sometimes "whiffs" and other times, just plows my opponent over. The deck tackles the game from such a weird play angle, it's really quite fun, and the creatures are dynamic enough to affect the board state favorably. I have to figure out what to cut, but Demanding Dragon definitely goes in the deck. Card seems really fun, and like a really fun addition to my most hilarious "theme" deck.
Match 1
W, 2-1, W/U Control
Game 1: Game 1 looks to be going in my favor pretty soundly. I get off early Soul-Scar action, double abrade Lyra, think I'm going to get in for the win, only to have 3 successive threats get Cast Out. She takes the game.
Game 2: I explode out of the gates, apply early Soul Scar prowess beatdown with Shock and Lightning Strike support. This one goes quickly in my favor.
Game 3: This was a nice, fun interactive match; she had lots of Cast Outs, but I had more threats; eventual Hazoret discards tilt the table in my favor, and I build a superior ground force for the win.
Match 2
W, 2-0, G/B Saprolings
Game 1: I keep a 2-land hand, with mostly 3 CMC cards in my hand. I thankfully find the 3rd land in short order, and 3 of 3 CMC cards were Chainwhirlers. Saprolings HATE Chainwhirler.
Game 2: This game is better for him, more interaction and black cards to kill my threats, but my threat density is a lot heavier than his removal suite, plus I play red spells that melt face when applied correctly. Easy match win.
Match 3
W, 2-0, W/B Knights
Game 1: I play mountains, and my opponents starts groaning. Chainwhirlers coupled with Soul-Scars do good work to his attacking force, and Hazoret seals the deal.
Game 2: On the draw, I keep a pretty solid hand with Khenra, Shocks, Karn and Glorybringer; seems sort of man deficient but I had 2; thankfully, I draw like 2 lands early, the deck gets flowing, and runs Knights over.
Playing for 1st place, but playing Jacob, basically the best player in the shop. He's playing White/Blue Control. I should have a "chance," but Jacob is the best player in the shop.
L, 0-2, W/B Teferi Control
-I'll just summarize the match; had my deck played "well" both games, I might have had a chance. As we approached the critical moments of Game 2, I thought I might have a chance, but he drew the perfect removal, and defeated me soundly in both matches.
In summary, Chainwhirlers did lots of good work; Red is in a particularly fun place right now, having the guns and the firepower to compete with the more complex, more expensive Tier 1 decks, which there aren't very many of at this point in time. Barring some emergency banning of Chainwhirler, Mono Red looks well positioned for the next few months, but will lose so many critical pieces, it will be forced to re-define, and most likely add a second color. Adding that second color might shore up deficiencies, but will make the RRR of the Chainwhirler difficult to negotiate. So, it will be interesting to see what happens to this "shell" after rotation. At the end of the night, I got 3-1, with two 2-0's, and a nice 6-3 game win/loss record as well. I get 3rd place on tiebreakers, but my packs yield junk. Oh well, was a fun night, had good matches (minus the slaughter in the last round) and placed well. I look forward to slinging more red spells next Friday.
I've been playing a mono-Red burn deck, but didn't have any Rekindling Phoenix; I managed to pick up one this weekend, and although that will only be seen occasionally, I'm curious to check it out. I often found myself in situations where I alternately loathe/love Bomat Courier. A lot of times, I'll be wanting that fourth land forever, and usually it's because of Bomat. They can be really great; they can be tricky and terrible sometimes. I've opted to cut them for this current build, and hope to pick up another Phoenix in the week ahead.
My current deck is as follows:
Since adding Chainwhirlers and the Phoenix today, I look forward to seeing how it plays. Looks tasty.
I sleeved up the following:
I have had a lot of fun with the deck, and some really good results. I had a lovely 4-1 last Friday, coming in 2nd out of 23 for Standard. I only lost two games that whole night, so quite a night of playing...
I have a more "fun" deck for Standard, but I do like "winning." I'll be playing this list a lot until rotation in September.
Swampwalk on Street Wraith is more useful than I ever imagined originally; there seems to be lots of swamps in my meta. If it gets to the long game, Street Wraith has won me games on the battlefield, although this is a real weird, corner-case scenario.