Like many, I'm excited for the possibilities here. 250 new (to Modern) cards designed or chosen specifically for the format? Can't wait to see the full spoiler for this set.
Also like many, I'm blown away by no reprints of existing Modern cards in dire need of a supply injection; looks like they are banking at the novelty and equity of newer cards to drive the set sales (and they're probably right).
If I had to guess, my instinct is that another supplemental product will release in the Nov-Dec window that contains some number of choice reprints (but isn't an actual Masters set). Wizards knows that printing cards like the enemy fetches will make them money and players happy, plus they need to make up that end-of-year revenue occupied by Masters sets for the past two years.
Me...I'm just excited for old things and call-backs, and especially to not be envious of so many fun cards bypassing my favorite format for a change.
Agree with all of this. I don't have the option to play modern anymore (time commitments, sigh), but watching the format evolve is going to be a ton of fun.
Anyone advocating for multiple bans across differing archetypes to "improve the format" is delusional, and should be disregarded from any constructive discussion about format health. Seriously, this should be infraction worthy.
Delusional? Sure. Infraction worthy? Police discussion more I suppose.
You must agree with certain people as to how modern should look, or else! *spooky noises*
KCI is currently the most busted thing. Banning it only allows the new most busted thing to take it's place. It will 'rotate' like this forever, and that's why modern gets so exhausting because you constantly have to prune back the branches of decks like this and the most innocuous cards are capable of breaking a deck in half - Cathartic Reunion, Opt, Ichor Wellspring, etc.
I don't play Jund. I don't care if Jund is good. I'm simply willing to admit that the play patterns available in this format (crushingly controlling OR ridiculously fast/punishing aggro/combo) aren't leading to satisfying gameplay. If you're here for EV or to scratch your desire to cheat on mana costs or miracle people out of games, then so be it. But there are a spectrum of reasons as to why people play this game and this format. Myself and a VERY large group of people want to play cards that were favorites for us from standards past. Desiring for the format to at least be non-hostile to that isn't outrageous. The point of *any* magic format and this game as a whole is to be fun and to serve the desires of the base of players willing to invest their time into it. Desiring changes in the modern format is no more frivolous than simply playing modern itself.
Oh and people are not paying attention (or dont care about fair decks, which is fine) if they are not aware of this. Terminus is more than any other card or deck in the format, going to prevent fair creature based decks from ever seeing real play again.
Yep. An instant speed bottom of the library wrath that costs almost nothing and is now much easier to set up is both required for control to thrive and completely damaging to any other fair deck. I know control is supposed to best fair midrange decks, but it's like robbing a liquor store with a rocket launcher. This leads to the ultimate thought that possibly this format has reached it's diversity limits. All of these decks cannot coexist, there is no balance point, and as long as Terminus is on one end and wildly fast and consistent combo/aggro (this is almost just one classification at this point) is on the other then where is this format actually going? Is anyone satisfied at this point? I've sold all of my modern staples both in anticipation of a new non-rotating format and because I just don't enjoy the gameplay. Playing against stirrings decks isn't fun. Playing against some variation of a graveyard recursive aggro deck isn't fun. I like interacting, I like playing chess with my opponent, and I've had to come to terms that this format just isn't for me anymore.
Assassin's Trophy seems like a great possible addition as a light splash.
A few questions though about your above list, other than KOA, what are you hoping to hit with resto? Why run a batterskull (or Angelic Destiny) at all? Teeg plus Coco feels really really bad, have you run into issues? Has Scryb actually performed well for you? I get cutting Azusa now that we have KOA, but why cut the Ramunaps?
Everyones hype for Assassin's Trophy seems pretty warranted. It obviously enormously helps any BG deck, but I'm kinda wondering if it can help innovate some less-played things. GW Value Town has been going through some changes by Todd Stevens to keep it relevant. He has been trying Blue for more of a Jace-Midrange deck, but I am wondering about Abzan now. With this, Path to Exile, and Ghost Quarter effects you can probably run the opponent out of basics really fast. Even something like an Abzan Gitrog Monster deck could work as it was causing some ripples with Heartless Summonings before.
We're already talking about it in the Valuetown facebook group. This definitely helps you go even harder into stripmine.dec.
Standard is broken from every perspective, nothing will save it. The whole mtg ecosystem is set up to disseminate information so fast that the only way to have a balanced ecosystem is one where every resource can be attacked- hands (discard) Lands (landkill) spell costs (3 sphere type cards), activated abilities (supp field), libraries (mill and cap effects) creatures in play (wraiths) , etb creatures yet to be cast (humility), bins, critters, planeswalkers etc. They will never do that because every resource being a target frustrates newbies (as well as some who should know better), meaning in reality combat and creatures the gathering is all they will promote in Standard, whilst attempting to lure in players with the mentality of 14 year olds who expect instant gratification in games with zero frustration.
In reality Modern has been made with a number of super powerful cards like Snappy, Vial, Thought seize etc. that are not shared fairly in all colours, leaving a very skewed color pie where counters are weaker than they should be, discard is strong, creatures have to be front loaded, and landkill is short on punishing the greedy due to no wastelands. The only way they will make progress on Std or Modern is to get rid of the "our data says players like x" approach. Such an approach leads to what we have seen in standard. It is this approach that stops them running cards like Thoughtseize through Standard. Until they understand that many of the people they canvass won't play Standard whatever, or that many will quit soon regardless, they won't get usable data.
The biggest opponents of cards like Thoughtseize are the pros who have to slog through standard seasons with it. The overwhelming sentiment from nearly every pro I saw when Theros rotated out went something like 'Thank GOD we don't have to think about Thoughtseize every game any longer.' It's an obnoxious magic card, not just to 14 year olds.
Also, there is a creature-less tier 1 deck in Standard right now. I don't even like standard, but I'm so sick of the 'hurr-durr midrange creatures' argument as to why standard is 'bad'. Standard is what it is - the format that comes about as the result of a smaller card pool. This thread though, is about why modern could use some cards that are beyond where wizards wants standard to be, not a standard slam fest.
They really just need to print better cards in standard. All modern cards were standard once. If they print modern only new cards with standard level print run , it would just simply be a new standard called by another name. If they do not, and it is more limited... then yes we have a whole set of nexus of fate... imagine that
The continuing problem with this is that most of the cards that we need to be in standard sets that will impact modern end up being fairly degenerate in standard. Thoughtseize, mutavault, Search for Azcanta, Teferi - these cards are so powerful they warp standards, but basically define the floor of what it takes to impact our format at this point. Eventually they'll run out of non-warping design space and yet will still need to interact with modern outside of bans/unbans (to retain community enjoyment of the format). This product (theoretically) allows them to do this.
Cutting all copies of Collected Company, lowering the creature count and generating #waluve with the Planeswalker. Is Bant the new way to go? What you guys think?
We've talked about this list extensively on the facebook groups - this was a viewer submitted list to his stream that he happened to go 5-0 with. I don't think this is particularly good deck building or a long term viable build. I *do* think maindeck planeswalkers are very interesting things to consider though, as well as using creaturelands in conjunction with KOTR. I brewed up a list that uses Sylvan Advocates to give the creaturelands some late game punch. Still testing, but it's worked well so far.
I agree that fetchlands seem like solid pickups. I think that some people are trying to lean harder on quick gainers and then dump them than the slow, grindy gainers, (lol).
The checkland cycle suggests to me that we're getting a land with land types on it. It might not be shocks though. The best case scenario is likely something that's not shocks, but that sees play alongside them.
Agree with all of this. I don't have the option to play modern anymore (time commitments, sigh), but watching the format evolve is going to be a ton of fun.
You must agree with certain people as to how modern should look, or else! *spooky noises*
I don't play Jund. I don't care if Jund is good. I'm simply willing to admit that the play patterns available in this format (crushingly controlling OR ridiculously fast/punishing aggro/combo) aren't leading to satisfying gameplay. If you're here for EV or to scratch your desire to cheat on mana costs or miracle people out of games, then so be it. But there are a spectrum of reasons as to why people play this game and this format. Myself and a VERY large group of people want to play cards that were favorites for us from standards past. Desiring for the format to at least be non-hostile to that isn't outrageous. The point of *any* magic format and this game as a whole is to be fun and to serve the desires of the base of players willing to invest their time into it. Desiring changes in the modern format is no more frivolous than simply playing modern itself.
Yep. An instant speed bottom of the library wrath that costs almost nothing and is now much easier to set up is both required for control to thrive and completely damaging to any other fair deck. I know control is supposed to best fair midrange decks, but it's like robbing a liquor store with a rocket launcher. This leads to the ultimate thought that possibly this format has reached it's diversity limits. All of these decks cannot coexist, there is no balance point, and as long as Terminus is on one end and wildly fast and consistent combo/aggro (this is almost just one classification at this point) is on the other then where is this format actually going? Is anyone satisfied at this point? I've sold all of my modern staples both in anticipation of a new non-rotating format and because I just don't enjoy the gameplay. Playing against stirrings decks isn't fun. Playing against some variation of a graveyard recursive aggro deck isn't fun. I like interacting, I like playing chess with my opponent, and I've had to come to terms that this format just isn't for me anymore.
A few questions though about your above list, other than KOA, what are you hoping to hit with resto? Why run a batterskull (or Angelic Destiny) at all? Teeg plus Coco feels really really bad, have you run into issues? Has Scryb actually performed well for you? I get cutting Azusa now that we have KOA, but why cut the Ramunaps?
We're already talking about it in the Valuetown facebook group. This definitely helps you go even harder into stripmine.dec.
The biggest opponents of cards like Thoughtseize are the pros who have to slog through standard seasons with it. The overwhelming sentiment from nearly every pro I saw when Theros rotated out went something like 'Thank GOD we don't have to think about Thoughtseize every game any longer.' It's an obnoxious magic card, not just to 14 year olds.
Also, there is a creature-less tier 1 deck in Standard right now. I don't even like standard, but I'm so sick of the 'hurr-durr midrange creatures' argument as to why standard is 'bad'. Standard is what it is - the format that comes about as the result of a smaller card pool. This thread though, is about why modern could use some cards that are beyond where wizards wants standard to be, not a standard slam fest.
The continuing problem with this is that most of the cards that we need to be in standard sets that will impact modern end up being fairly degenerate in standard. Thoughtseize, mutavault, Search for Azcanta, Teferi - these cards are so powerful they warp standards, but basically define the floor of what it takes to impact our format at this point. Eventually they'll run out of non-warping design space and yet will still need to interact with modern outside of bans/unbans (to retain community enjoyment of the format). This product (theoretically) allows them to do this.
We've talked about this list extensively on the facebook groups - this was a viewer submitted list to his stream that he happened to go 5-0 with. I don't think this is particularly good deck building or a long term viable build. I *do* think maindeck planeswalkers are very interesting things to consider though, as well as using creaturelands in conjunction with KOTR. I brewed up a list that uses Sylvan Advocates to give the creaturelands some late game punch. Still testing, but it's worked well so far.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-value-lands/?cb=1534438217
Wouldn't the best case scenario be shocks?
Here's a start: https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/328-hearthstone
For Hearthstone being astronomically larger (competitively) than magic, Pro tours don't look too bad by comparison.
Some more info-
Hearthstone top paid pro - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Beltiukov
Magic top all-time earnings list - https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/top-players/statistics/top-200-money-leaders
Magic has definitely been around a lot longer so keep that in mind. With that said though, these numbers certainly aren't small.