Hmm. Good thoughts. I personally think that congregation is bad too.
But we disagree for now on Chord vs. Shaman.
That's fine. I'll keep running my current deck (and if I get fed up with Shaman, I'll exchange her for chord.)
For the short time I was running chord though, I wasn't too impressed with it.
Having four creatures (including a sac outlet and a bilster creature) and only three open mana to chord for the win this turn seems like a really narrow and unreliable case to me. How often in actual games does our opponent even let us assemble that?
I would much rather be able to turn every topdeck creature into whatever creature I want for one green. It makes mana dorks and dryad arbor much better topdecks in the late game.
It may help that I actually am running two Tidehollow acullers main. I don't run any communes or chords. And I run three shamans. She even turns multiples of herself into combo pieces.
See. I get the instant speed interaction thing with chord (though shaman is pseudo instant speed), but saying it gives you something to scry for when you don't have four mana?
Fauna Shaman runs off much less than four mana...while chord does nothing with only three mana unless you have creatures out.
Plus chord is anti-synergistic with company. So even if it were slightly better overall than Shaman (I think they're probably about even) I think shaman wins since we run a playset of company. No?
I agree with Muten Yoshi on this one.
I want at least one Pridemage main. Almost every deck has at least one enchantment/artifact you will want to deal with. And, if nothing else, he is an exalted trigger AND discard fodder for Fauna Shaman.
Speaking of shaman. I still think that Chord of Calling is probably wrong for this deck. It's just not a creature. Why run it when you can run a creature that does the same thing? Then, by removing the chord, you can reduce your land/dork count (I'm only running 25 total) for a few more creatures to improve your odds/options with company.
A second order effect here is that you probably dont want to run KOTR if you reduce the lands.
I can speak a little to the Fauna Shaman/Chord of Calling question.
Personally, I run 3 copies of Fauna Shaman instead of Chord.
The primary reason for this is: Fauna Shaman gets hit by collected company. Also nice is the fact that she is reusable, and is playable on less mana. In my experience, if she doesn't get answered, she will end the game for you in a matter of 1-2 turns.
As for your silver bullets, I would probably remove them/switch them to the side for a bit more disruption game one. I use Tidehollow Scullers and Fiend Hunters personally. I bring in the beatdown cards (like Smiters and Rancor) from the sideboard games two or three after the opponent brings in all the hate for my combo.
Flickerwisp is a great idea. Especially with the evasion and Attack power, but I don't know if this deck wants temporary solutions to problem permanents. I'm much more comfortable killing those huge Goyfs/Rhinos/Tasigurs than merely bouncing them. Especially rhino!
However, flickerwisp can be used to target our own permanents as well - removing the -1 counter from a Persist dude, gaining us life from finks, or snagging a bolster trigger.
I think that the one power of the other two isn't such a hindrance since we aren't relying on them to bring the beats, but to clear the way for our other creatures. Just like a removal spell. Plus, there's bilster triggers to consider (though those are bound to be much more effective with flying...)
Whoa! I somehow totally overlooked the madness on big game Hunter when I was evaluating him earlier.
That is sweet. I might bring him in over fiend hunter.
Thanks for the matchup analysis and sideboard thoughts guys.
I finally got in all the remaining cards to make my deck more midrange, and then tested it at a casual/playtesting modern night last night.
Mid-range is soooo much better. Actually having main deck answers was awesome - and I never felt like I was really slowing down the combo all that much. At any rate, I won 12/12 games last night vs - Junk, UW Control, and Soul Sisters. I'm excited to take this to our next modern tourney.
I have the Rancor and Smiters in the side to bring the beats in games 2-3 if they have too much combo hate.
Forge-tender is solely there for Anger of the Gods - that card shuts us down so hard. The rest are pretty self-explanatory. I am considering taking out the Scooze and putting in a couple Meddling Mage. Thoughts on that?
Some notes:
-I comboed out for life a lot last night; only once for damage.
-The deck forces people to blow their removal on everything (I didn't get to search once with fauna shaman). There's only a couple creatures that are okay for them to let live (like witness).
-One game, I couldn't get any combo pieces so I just beat down with a couple finks and birds pumped repeatedly by Gavony Township.
-Sculler was a house. A couple times, I got to sacrifice him before resolving so the cards stay removed permanently.
-Domri Rade and Courser of Kruphix are mostly in for fun/seeing how they work. Didn't draw Domri once all night though. And only saw courser once (he drew a double bolt for me). Any thoughts on them? If they shouldn't be in here, what would you replace them with? (maybe one more fiend hunter and one more pridemage?)
-And finally, Collected Company is such a house. I was never sad to see it. And the game generally ended a turn or two after casting the first one. Company into witness to get it back is crazy. And switching to midrange (with a greater diversity of creatures) makes it much better than it was in the all-in deck - I would often get two of the same combo pieces before...now it's all options.
Anyway. Hope you enjoyed. Thanks for steering me towards this decklist. Can't wait to start putting up some results.
I really like the look of the deck. Make sure to tell us how your testing goes.
Looking at it now, I would mess around with it as-is, but be keeping an eye out for whether or not you need a few more sweepers (either in the main or the side). Pyroclasm might be desirable since it leaves Reckoner alive - though it's hard to pick over anger of the gods since anger deals with a lot of problematic creatures in the format at the moment.
Also. One thing to keep in mind is that each Forbidden Orchard essentially produces two mana towards blasphemous act since it creates a creature at the time it is tapped. So Act might be a more desirable option.
At any rate. Let us know how it goes. At some point Id like to get the cards and sleeve this up myself.
I agree that Blood Artist is probably bad. I was just saying that it's still better than those other options.
I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the lines of play vs various common opponents.
i.e. How do you play vs twin? What sideboard cards are effective? Etc.
And so on for junk, affinity, burn, tron, bloom, etc...
Wouldn't Altar of the Brood or Impact Tremors offer some alternative win-cons that also aren't as easy to deal with pre-board? (could also be used post board to confuse people)
They can't be tutored for with Chord of Calling and can't be cheated in with Collected Company (unless you run Trinket Mage for Altar, and even then, you can't Flash in an Altar in response to removal on a combo piece). They also can't be pumped with Gavony Township. Especially since this deck actually has an aggro plan that works, I'll pass on them.
I agree with Lectrys here. If we're going to run Blasting station or Impact Tremors or the like, we might as well just run a few Blood Artist. He gets hit by Chord/Company/Fauna Shaman...
Hmm.
I've been thinking about this deck a lot and think it could be really fun (and if tuned, decently competitive).
I think I would drop the four raise the alarm. They're cute as souls 5-8, but they are nowhere near as good.
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do with Young Pyromancer. Seems more cute than effective to me. His tokens come out too late to decrease the cost of Blasphemous Act. And they come too early to refill your board after wrath.
And finally, I would drop 1-2 paths. They're great, but you have tons of removal already and I don't think they're quite necessary for you (definitely not a full playset).
That should give you nine or ten slots.
In their place I would consider a few more good creatures (preferably some that can survive your wraths).
Also, I would put in a few Searing Blaze/Bloods.
The Firewalker will help pad your life. And it will survive all your wraths - ensuring you can keep swinging. He also is some nice unexpected hate for any decks running red.
Reckoner is just too good to pass up with Blasphemous Act. I would run at least two main.
And the other cards are just value since you can guarantee your opponent will have creatures.
So. Those are my thoughts. Keep in mind that I haven't built this deck or tested it, so take them with a grain of salt. And good luck!
Good morning from Japan.
I just got back from a small local tournament and have some thoughts for you Zetsu.
Match One (win) - Played a Bloodghast Reanimator. Comboed out for infinite life turn 4, he scooped. Next, comboed out for life on turn three, and infinite damage turn four.
Match Two (loss) - splinter control countered all my threats and comboed out on turn 6ish. Then beat me down with batter skull, countering my Pridemages. Almost still pulled out that second game, but the disruption kept me from getting the third combo piece.
Match Three (loss) - red tron - got wrecked by multiple anger of the gods and pyroclasms destroying and exiling my combo pieces. Lost to a turn 7 Emrakul and then a turn four Ugin.
So. As I've suspected, the all-in combo version of the deck is very strong against "fair" decks, but it gets outclassed by the other tiered combo decks of the format.
Hopefully the rest of my cards will arrive this week and I'll join the midrange darkside.
But we disagree for now on Chord vs. Shaman.
That's fine. I'll keep running my current deck (and if I get fed up with Shaman, I'll exchange her for chord.)
For the short time I was running chord though, I wasn't too impressed with it.
Having four creatures (including a sac outlet and a bilster creature) and only three open mana to chord for the win this turn seems like a really narrow and unreliable case to me. How often in actual games does our opponent even let us assemble that?
I would much rather be able to turn every topdeck creature into whatever creature I want for one green. It makes mana dorks and dryad arbor much better topdecks in the late game.
It may help that I actually am running two Tidehollow acullers main. I don't run any communes or chords. And I run three shamans. She even turns multiples of herself into combo pieces.
Fauna Shaman runs off much less than four mana...while chord does nothing with only three mana unless you have creatures out.
Plus chord is anti-synergistic with company. So even if it were slightly better overall than Shaman (I think they're probably about even) I think shaman wins since we run a playset of company. No?
I want at least one Pridemage main. Almost every deck has at least one enchantment/artifact you will want to deal with. And, if nothing else, he is an exalted trigger AND discard fodder for Fauna Shaman.
Speaking of shaman. I still think that Chord of Calling is probably wrong for this deck. It's just not a creature. Why run it when you can run a creature that does the same thing? Then, by removing the chord, you can reduce your land/dork count (I'm only running 25 total) for a few more creatures to improve your odds/options with company.
A second order effect here is that you probably dont want to run KOTR if you reduce the lands.
Nice deck list.
I can speak a little to the Fauna Shaman/Chord of Calling question.
Personally, I run 3 copies of Fauna Shaman instead of Chord.
The primary reason for this is: Fauna Shaman gets hit by collected company. Also nice is the fact that she is reusable, and is playable on less mana. In my experience, if she doesn't get answered, she will end the game for you in a matter of 1-2 turns.
As for your silver bullets, I would probably remove them/switch them to the side for a bit more disruption game one. I use Tidehollow Scullers and Fiend Hunters personally. I bring in the beatdown cards (like Smiters and Rancor) from the sideboard games two or three after the opponent brings in all the hate for my combo.
Is Affinity still a Tier One deck in modern?
I feel like I hardly ever see anyone play it.
But if I were considering playing it, does it still have what it takes?
However, flickerwisp can be used to target our own permanents as well - removing the -1 counter from a Persist dude, gaining us life from finks, or snagging a bolster trigger.
I think that the one power of the other two isn't such a hindrance since we aren't relying on them to bring the beats, but to clear the way for our other creatures. Just like a removal spell. Plus, there's bilster triggers to consider (though those are bound to be much more effective with flying...)
Hmm. Good suggestion.
That is sweet. I might bring him in over fiend hunter.
I finally got in all the remaining cards to make my deck more midrange, and then tested it at a casual/playtesting modern night last night.
Mid-range is soooo much better. Actually having main deck answers was awesome - and I never felt like I was really slowing down the combo all that much. At any rate, I won 12/12 games last night vs - Junk, UW Control, and Soul Sisters. I'm excited to take this to our next modern tourney.
Here's the list I'm running now:
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Viscera Seer
1 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Murderous Redcap
2 Eternal Witness
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Fauna Shaman
4 Collected Company
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Domri Rade
Lands
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Horizon Canopy
4 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
2 Reflecting Pool
1 Gavony Township
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Rancor
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Eternal Witness
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
I have the Rancor and Smiters in the side to bring the beats in games 2-3 if they have too much combo hate.
Forge-tender is solely there for Anger of the Gods - that card shuts us down so hard. The rest are pretty self-explanatory. I am considering taking out the Scooze and putting in a couple Meddling Mage. Thoughts on that?
Some notes:
-I comboed out for life a lot last night; only once for damage.
-The deck forces people to blow their removal on everything (I didn't get to search once with fauna shaman). There's only a couple creatures that are okay for them to let live (like witness).
-One game, I couldn't get any combo pieces so I just beat down with a couple finks and birds pumped repeatedly by Gavony Township.
-Sculler was a house. A couple times, I got to sacrifice him before resolving so the cards stay removed permanently.
-Domri Rade and Courser of Kruphix are mostly in for fun/seeing how they work. Didn't draw Domri once all night though. And only saw courser once (he drew a double bolt for me). Any thoughts on them? If they shouldn't be in here, what would you replace them with? (maybe one more fiend hunter and one more pridemage?)
-And finally, Collected Company is such a house. I was never sad to see it. And the game generally ended a turn or two after casting the first one. Company into witness to get it back is crazy. And switching to midrange (with a greater diversity of creatures) makes it much better than it was in the all-in deck - I would often get two of the same combo pieces before...now it's all options.
Anyway. Hope you enjoyed. Thanks for steering me towards this decklist. Can't wait to start putting up some results.
Looking at it now, I would mess around with it as-is, but be keeping an eye out for whether or not you need a few more sweepers (either in the main or the side). Pyroclasm might be desirable since it leaves Reckoner alive - though it's hard to pick over anger of the gods since anger deals with a lot of problematic creatures in the format at the moment.
Also. One thing to keep in mind is that each Forbidden Orchard essentially produces two mana towards blasphemous act since it creates a creature at the time it is tapped. So Act might be a more desirable option.
At any rate. Let us know how it goes. At some point Id like to get the cards and sleeve this up myself.
I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the lines of play vs various common opponents.
i.e. How do you play vs twin? What sideboard cards are effective? Etc.
And so on for junk, affinity, burn, tron, bloom, etc...
I agree with Lectrys here. If we're going to run Blasting station or Impact Tremors or the like, we might as well just run a few Blood Artist. He gets hit by Chord/Company/Fauna Shaman...
I've been thinking about this deck a lot and think it could be really fun (and if tuned, decently competitive).
I think I would drop the four raise the alarm. They're cute as souls 5-8, but they are nowhere near as good.
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do with Young Pyromancer. Seems more cute than effective to me. His tokens come out too late to decrease the cost of Blasphemous Act. And they come too early to refill your board after wrath.
And finally, I would drop 1-2 paths. They're great, but you have tons of removal already and I don't think they're quite necessary for you (definitely not a full playset).
That should give you nine or ten slots.
In their place I would consider a few more good creatures (preferably some that can survive your wraths).
Also, I would put in a few Searing Blaze/Bloods.
Perhaps something like:
2 Boros Reckoner
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Searing Blood
2 Searing Blaze
The Firewalker will help pad your life. And it will survive all your wraths - ensuring you can keep swinging. He also is some nice unexpected hate for any decks running red.
Reckoner is just too good to pass up with Blasphemous Act. I would run at least two main.
And the other cards are just value since you can guarantee your opponent will have creatures.
So. Those are my thoughts. Keep in mind that I haven't built this deck or tested it, so take them with a grain of salt. And good luck!
I just got back from a small local tournament and have some thoughts for you Zetsu.
Match One (win) - Played a Bloodghast Reanimator. Comboed out for infinite life turn 4, he scooped. Next, comboed out for life on turn three, and infinite damage turn four.
Match Two (loss) - splinter control countered all my threats and comboed out on turn 6ish. Then beat me down with batter skull, countering my Pridemages. Almost still pulled out that second game, but the disruption kept me from getting the third combo piece.
Match Three (loss) - red tron - got wrecked by multiple anger of the gods and pyroclasms destroying and exiling my combo pieces. Lost to a turn 7 Emrakul and then a turn four Ugin.
So. As I've suspected, the all-in combo version of the deck is very strong against "fair" decks, but it gets outclassed by the other tiered combo decks of the format.
Hopefully the rest of my cards will arrive this week and I'll join the midrange darkside.
Giving them extra creatures seems nice in this sort of deck. Plus it fixes your mans.
Easy four-of in my opinion.
And if you're going to go that route, I would probably drop the Lightning Helix for some number of Searing Blood and Searing Blaze. Much more useful.