Hi, I know DirkGently repeatedly stated that ramp does not do anything for this deck. I have been trying out Hour of Promise in the deck anyway and I was always happy to see it. It gets any land card, Usually one of them an Arch of Orazca and/or other utility lands. Or if you need more colored mana it helps you with fixing. It does not just ramp but actually helps in finding the correct lands for the situation in my oppinion.
What are your thoughts on running an Hour of Promise in the 99? Or would you rather run a Tempt with Discovery instead? Or is that card too scary?
I have been playing this deck for a while now. Over the course of the last 6 months it underwent several overhauls and improvements. I believe the list is finally at a place where I feel comfortable to say it will probably stay in its current iteration for a while. Barring any new releases that just absolutely have to be part of it of course.
The goal of the deck is to create advantage with every card played and as such get ahead of the field and control the boardstate. Once the game has gone long enough and we probably drew into our wincon naturally we play the standart Azami MoM combo and win the game with LabMan. Notably here is that if for whatever reason other players will force you to draw before lab man is on the field, you can discard him with frantic search or jace, and reanimate labMan at instant speed with Necromancy. The instant speed advantage is the reason I chose to include it over an Animate dead.
If you have any additional suggestions or feel like certain cards absolutely have to be a part of it, feel free to make suggestions!
Was looking to improve my Kess, Dissident Mage Grixis storm list and stumbled across this thread. I have played the competitive Kess storm list for a bit more than half a year now. However in my experience Kess was worth a lot so many times, recasting things from gy, why do you keep Jeleva as Commander? Her having to survive a turn is too much of a weakness?
Also playing Mind Over Matter instead of Paradox Engine? Every time I landed the Engine, you almost go inf. accidentally. It's really hard to whiff with this deck and so much mana from the engine.
Anyway here is my list. I would appreciate suggestions of what to cut to lower the cmc. I still get hurt too much casting an Ad Nauseam too often.
I don't think Lightning Greaves is worth a slot, that is either better filled with threats or answers.
Concerning the treand to more consistency. I've been playing this deck for a while now. I mainly play on Cockatrice due to there being no local game store in my area. That means I don't have a meta that is very static. I've been having a lot of success playing with one wurmcoil maindeck and only 1 karn in sidebord for the colorless matchups.
What I am currently thinking about is replacing the Sea Gate Wreckage with Arch of Orazca. However getting to the city's blessing might be too difficult. What do you guys think?
Hi, I only just started playing with this deck, as I needed something more complex than a B/W Token deck. I am having a blast playing it, the only thing I keep wondering. Is there no way to play around rest in peace? Our only option is to echoing truth it before we go off?
hey people, I too have been piloting this deck the last couple of days.
I believe the win-loss ratio is generally in my favor, though difficult match-ups include decks like jund who are discard heavy. Other than quite a few people I decided to stay on Rakdos and only splash white for the SB. I have been happy with faithless looting as well as tormenting voice in the deck so far.
this is the current list if someone is interested.
Hi, I've been playing a loth with this deck in the last couple of days. It had some difficulties and enemy discard is still a big issue, but in general I am really happy what it does so far.
Though instead of going white as you do, I really only concentrated on Rakdos colors and only splash white for the SB.
You are right, Vial can be a huge tempo advantage, though as you also said, it is a really bad topdeck. For the Vial to be good you have to have it in the opening hand. In order to ensure we have it in the opening hand a relevant number of times it has to be run as a 4-of. As such it is highly probable we draw it again in a later phase, when an extra vial has no influence anymore since either with or without vial we are in topdeck mode usually by turn 4 or 5. It is also not like merfolk where using vial let's them keep mana open for counterspells. Thus I would rather run a couple more slivers in the deck than run a chance of having vials in hand or on the board that don't contribute to the boardstate.
I see your point. I run basic Islands to be able to cast Frenetic in case of a Blood moon. Though now that I think about it, with the amount of mana slivers and a basic forest I should be able to cast anything most of the times, and then it is better to have a swamp available for sedge slivers. I will probably change the misty rainforest for a windswept heath then too.
Worship/Path to Exile seems odd seeing that you have only 1 land to cast it
That's true, though with 5 Fetches, that each can each fetch that 1 source I should be able to cast it reliably even without any mana sliver online. Though in all the playtests I never was enough mana screwed that I couldn't cast any of those spells. Path to exile helps against jund kalitas and strong goyfs as well as thing in ice zoo. Both of which are my hardest match-ups in my meta.
They are another lord, that benefit from all the sliver buffs themselves as well. Though I get that they are slow on 3 cmc. I might exchange one for a third sentinel sliver as vigilance really helps my gameplan along.
So I have been playtesting my own take on slivers. I have not been convinced by aether vial in the deck, I feel like every time I have it I would've rather had another sliver more in hand. Collected Company on the other hand pulled it's share of the weight every single time, either as a tempo / card advantage or a good way to recover from a removal heavy matchup.
To compensate for the tempo loss of not playing an aether vial I decided to include multiple copies of sentinel sliver,gemhide sliver and manaweft sliver. Furthermore a chalice of the void in the maindeck has paid it's dividend multiple times over. There is just something good about dropping a chalice for X=1 on turn 2 and stopping so many bolts, paths, and cantrip spells the current meta is so heavy on.
In almost all the matchups I felt I was slightly favored and so far also had some good results against tier decks. Jund is extremely difficult, as their deck is designed to play against exactly the type of deck sliver intends to play. Frenetic Sliver and a chalice of the void on 2 are my only hopes of winning this matchup.
The worship in the sideboard has actually won me some games against combo matchups, at least in game 2 before they get an answer from their own sideboard.
Anyway, long story short: here is my current decklist, tell me what you think.
Has anyone ever thought about adding a living end to the sideboard for those removal heavy decks? I mean we play loads of swamps for sedge sliver and all we have to manage is to survive two more turns after casting it and then in response use one of the many sac outlets to put our board into the grave and get all the destroyed creatures back as well. (necrotic sliver,darkheart sliver, frenetic sliver)
Cheers! Glad it went so well for you! I usually have trouble playing against Jund, as they can get this early tarmogoyf just outside of lightning bolt or anger of the gods out and get me low enough for their own bolts before i can drop a relevant threat that doesn't get removed instantly. Even playing blood moon and a chalice of the void for x=2 doesn't get me over the hill often, as their abrupt decay just sort of handles blood moon every time as soon as it hits the board.
Hi there, Why are you using reiterate instead of wild ricochet? Imo ricochet is strictly better as it can also act as a protection/removal if you need it. Is it only because of the buyback option? Then I don't really see a wincon yet in your deck except for the akiri voltron option. You mentioned using mirrorweave to end the game? Don't you need some more token production for that? sth like assemble the legion or martial coup. I'd be happy for some elaboration on your part
I will also add a Faith's Reward to my list as i see a lot of cataclysmesque cards in my meta
I recently came across this card : Deus of Calamity and was wondering if it doesn't deserve a space in this deck. I haven't been able to extensively test it in my deck, but so far it seems promising. Even if his ability never resolves he is still a 5 cmc 6 p/t trample creature. And imo his ability might as well read must be blocked to get rid of those pesky utility creatures.
What are your thoughts on running an Hour of Promise in the 99? Or would you rather run a Tempt with Discovery instead? Or is that card too scary?
I have been playing this deck for a while now. Over the course of the last 6 months it underwent several overhauls and improvements. I believe the list is finally at a place where I feel comfortable to say it will probably stay in its current iteration for a while. Barring any new releases that just absolutely have to be part of it of course.
The goal of the deck is to create advantage with every card played and as such get ahead of the field and control the boardstate. Once the game has gone long enough and we probably drew into our wincon naturally we play the standart Azami MoM combo and win the game with LabMan. Notably here is that if for whatever reason other players will force you to draw before lab man is on the field, you can discard him with frantic search or jace, and reanimate labMan at instant speed with Necromancy. The instant speed advantage is the reason I chose to include it over an Animate dead.
If you have any additional suggestions or feel like certain cards absolutely have to be a part of it, feel free to make suggestions!
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Artifact (13)
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sol Ring
1 Dimir Signet
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Izzet Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Thought Vessel
Creature (12)
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Trinket Mage
1 Notion Thief
1 The Scarab God
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
Enchantment(9)
1 Mystic Remora
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Necropotence
1 Stranglehold
1 Future Sight
1 Treachery
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Necromancy
1 Omniscience
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Mana Drain
1 Chaos Warp
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Dig Through Time
1 Frantic Search
1 Force of Will
Lands (36)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
3 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Morphic Pool
1 Luxury Suite
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Mana Confluence
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dack Fayden
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
Sorcery (16)
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Damnation
1 Crux of Fate
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Reanimate
1 Faithless Looting
1 Vandalblast
1 Expropriate
1 Chain Reaction
1 Windfall
1 Exsanguinate
Was looking to improve my Kess, Dissident Mage Grixis storm list and stumbled across this thread. I have played the competitive Kess storm list for a bit more than half a year now. However in my experience Kess was worth a lot so many times, recasting things from gy, why do you keep Jeleva as Commander? Her having to survive a turn is too much of a weakness?
Also playing Mind Over Matter instead of Paradox Engine? Every time I landed the Engine, you almost go inf. accidentally. It's really hard to whiff with this deck and so much mana from the engine.
Anyway here is my list. I would appreciate suggestions of what to cut to lower the cmc. I still get hurt too much casting an Ad Nauseam too often.
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Opal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Grim Monolith
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Paradox Engine
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Fellwar Stone
Creature(2)
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Notion Thief
Enchantment(4)
1 Copy Artifact
1 Future Sight
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Necropotence
Instant(24)
1 Dark Ritual
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Unsubstantiate
1 Remand
1 Impulse
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Mana Drain
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Frantic Search
1 Intuition
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Force of Will
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Gush
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Reality Shift
1 Thought Scour
1 Pact of Negation
1 Command Tower
1 Mana Confluence
1 City of Brass
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Volcanic Island
1 Steam Vents
1 Underground River
6 Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
Planeswalker(1)
1 Dack Fayden
Sorcery(22)
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Gamble
1 Imperial Seal
1 Night's Whisper
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Grim Tutor
1 Doomsday
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Past in Flames
1 Dark Petition
1 Time Spiral
1 Mind's Desire
1 Vandalblast
1 Fabricate
1 Windfall
1 Sleight of Hand
Concerning the treand to more consistency. I've been playing this deck for a while now. I mainly play on Cockatrice due to there being no local game store in my area. That means I don't have a meta that is very static. I've been having a lot of success playing with one wurmcoil maindeck and only 1 karn in sidebord for the colorless matchups.
Artifact (9)
4 Expedition Map
1 Batterskull
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Mind Stone
1 Oblivion Stone
Creature (20)
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Walking Ballista
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Endbringer
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Instant (4)
2 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
Planeswalker (1)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sorcery (3)
3 All Is Dust
Artifact (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
3 Dismember
Planeswalker (1)
1 Karn Liberated
What I am currently thinking about is replacing the Sea Gate Wreckage with Arch of Orazca. However getting to the city's blessing might be too difficult. What do you guys think?
I believe the win-loss ratio is generally in my favor, though difficult match-ups include decks like jund who are discard heavy. Other than quite a few people I decided to stay on Rakdos and only splash white for the SB. I have been happy with faithless looting as well as tormenting voice in the deck so far.
this is the current list if someone is interested.
Artifact
3 Brain in a Jar
Creature
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Instant
3 Goryo's Vengeance
Land
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Faithless Looting
4 Beck // Call
4 Breaking // Entering
3 Collective Brutality
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Tormenting Voice
Artifact
4 Defense Grid
Enchantment
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Instant
4 Wear // Tear
Sorcery
3 Crumble to Dust
Though instead of going white as you do, I really only concentrated on Rakdos colors and only splash white for the SB.
Anyway this is my current decklist:
Artifact
3 Brain in a Jar
Creature
4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Instant
3 Goryo's Vengeance
Land
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Faithless Looting
4 Beck // Call
4 Breaking // Entering
3 Collective Brutality
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Tormenting Voice
Creature
4 Vexing Shusher
Enchantment
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Instant
4 Wear // Tear
Sorcery
3 Crumble to Dust
In your deck, any special reason you play 4 manaweft sliver instead of 2 gemhide sliver and 2 manaweft sliver? I see no reason not to play 2 and 2 as it helps against cards like surgical extraction and maelstrom pulse.
I see your point. I run basic Islands to be able to cast Frenetic in case of a Blood moon. Though now that I think about it, with the amount of mana slivers and a basic forest I should be able to cast anything most of the times, and then it is better to have a swamp available for sedge slivers. I will probably change the misty rainforest for a windswept heath then too.
That's true, though with 5 Fetches, that each can each fetch that 1 source I should be able to cast it reliably even without any mana sliver online. Though in all the playtests I never was enough mana screwed that I couldn't cast any of those spells. Path to exile helps against jund kalitas and strong goyfs as well as thing in ice zoo. Both of which are my hardest match-ups in my meta.
They are another lord, that benefit from all the sliver buffs themselves as well. Though I get that they are slow on 3 cmc. I might exchange one for a third sentinel sliver as vigilance really helps my gameplan along.
To compensate for the tempo loss of not playing an aether vial I decided to include multiple copies of sentinel sliver,gemhide sliver and manaweft sliver. Furthermore a chalice of the void in the maindeck has paid it's dividend multiple times over. There is just something good about dropping a chalice for X=1 on turn 2 and stopping so many bolts, paths, and cantrip spells the current meta is so heavy on.
In almost all the matchups I felt I was slightly favored and so far also had some good results against tier decks. Jund is extremely difficult, as their deck is designed to play against exactly the type of deck sliver intends to play. Frenetic Sliver and a chalice of the void on 2 are my only hopes of winning this matchup.
The worship in the sideboard has actually won me some games against combo matchups, at least in game 2 before they get an answer from their own sideboard.
Anyway, long story short: here is my current decklist, tell me what you think.
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Gemhide Sliver
3 Manaweft Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Sentinel Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Adaptive Automaton
2 Blur Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
2 Necrotic Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
2 Chalice of the Void
Instants (4)
4 Collected Company
Lands (20)
1 Breeding Pool
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Mutavault
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Sliver Hive
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Darkheart Sliver
2 Frenetic Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Syphon Sliver
3 Path to Exile
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Worship
I will also add a Faith's Reward to my list as i see a lot of cataclysmesque cards in my meta
The deck I am currently running looks like this:
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Deus of Calamity
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Inferno Titan
Instants (2)
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Beast Within
Sorceries (11)
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Stone Rain
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
Planeswalker (1)
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Lands (22)
8 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Spellskite
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Beast Within