Hi guys, I'm back on Grixis Control after a 2 years hiatus with the deck. I've been getting back to control in general and all its flavours (Jeskai, Grixis, Esper, even UW). So here's my list, I'm looking at comments and such to make sure everything feels right with it. I've read the last 6 pages of content and I'd like to thank everyone who's contributing to the thread actively : whocansay, ID_Surge, MarcWizard, pf_mtg just to name a few of you.
In all, here's what I'll be working with (this is a first serious draft, I'm open to change a couple of things) :
I've seen most list not running maindeck wrath effect. I'm leaning toward having 2 Kolaghan's Command mainboard and 1 Damnation to deal with large board presence. Having Collective Brutality and Sun Droplet in the sideboard also seems essential to stay alive against Burn and aggro matchups. I'll be posting more in the next weeks.
I had a good day yesterday, being 2-0 in a small 8 man tournament. I had hard times finding consistency between matchups and I've beaten Jund (2-1) and UB Mill (2-1).
For the Jund matchup, I had lost 3 in a row, never being able to draw enough cards, so it went well this time. For UB Mill, I had lost 2 in a row also. I've learned to play around Archive Trap and such, in the same fashion as a Burn deck. In all, very happy with that night.
Having 2 Sfa and 2 HI is my sweet spot right now. Also, running 4 planeswalker (2 Jace, 2 Teferi) felt really good lately. I'll be settling on that for a couple of months I think. We should be good for tier 2 for sometimes, which I really don't complain about.
Absorb is probably a good spell, but less in Jeskai since we have Lightning Helix. I see it shine in UW or Esper Control. Maybe Depose // Deploy could see play, but I doubt it.
The best synergy to me has been so far Sphinx's Insight in conjunction with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria's +1 ability. For 2 mana (on your main phase), you can draw 2 cards and gain 2 life. It could see maybe some play, most probably in sideboard for grindy matchups and / or attrition based matchups.
@TomCourtney One of the reasons I'm not playing hieroglyphic is the standout difference it has between cycling and
full casting it. The list you have here looks rather reactive and that's what I've always liked about electrolyze. Even
when it's not great it still progresses multiple gameplans between pressure, removal and drawing cards. I'm also adamant about
my decision to cut path for bolt just because most creatures aren't out of bolt range and 3 is plenty to deal w/ threats that need to
be exiled. I'm also really happy w/ mainboard negate. My meta is extremely diverse so having more permission spells w/o hamstrings helps
a lot and I find Knot+Negate dealing with everything my removal package can't while Jace/Electrolyze stabilize in an almost attrition/ style
of fashion between trading 1 for 1 or making their draws worse and increasing loyalty.
TLDR: I've been having more success having a proactive gameplan that can switch/pivot between control/tempo on a dime. I may even look to try
more geist in the board just because of how few options it leaves opponents.
Thanks for the answer ! I'm not completely sold on Illumination, Electrolyze has been pretty good to average at worst and you're making a good analysis about how it could be relevant in different situation. I'll most probably swing between 2 Illumination and 2 Electrolyze depending the meta.
However, it seems I can't win against Jund. I don't know what to put in my sideboard to win. I'm thinking about 1 Baneslayer Angel. I'm not sure if Geist of Saint Traft could be good : he's great in mirror and against combo to race, but against midrange, I don't know. What do you think ?
Recently, a trend in the selection of card advantage has been seen : by simply browsing through the web, we see Hieroglyphic Illumination has the go-to card for card advantage. Before that, Glimmer of Genius was considered to be a decent choice, challenging the everlasting Think Twice.
About Glimmer, Gabriel Nassif wrote :
I’ve been liking in a Blue-White Control for a while now and I believe it is good here as well. Glimmer lets you punish opponents trying to play around Cryptic Command and the extra versatility is always nice with Snapcaster Mage
Even Erich Froehlich said on CFB :
Glimmer of Genius tends to be the most powerful as an instant-speed way to see up to four cards, but there are also cheaper options in Supreme Will/Anticipate, Opt, and Chart a Course. Hieroglyphic Illumination has seen some play, but it tends to be in decks that focus on cycling.
On the other hand, Luis-Scott Vargas said on Twitter :
Hieroglyphic Illumination is basically an Opt / Sphinx's Revelation split card.
Christian Calcano said also on Hareruya website :
With Illumination, you can keep slightly riskier hands, as well as be able to Cycle either to find a land, or effectively play 2 spells in 1 turn.
So what do you guys think about the best card advantage spell of the format ? Some contenders here haven't been mentionned such as Esper Charm, so the discussion is really up to you !
Good finish, nice list. I used to have 3 Bloodbraid Elf in the main, now I moved them to the sideboard for midrange / control matchups. To adress some things :
1) Against discard, I guess our best option is simply redundancy : having 4 Primeval Titan, 4 Scapeshift and bringing in some more threats to overcome any discarding situation.
2) Against combo, we have to go faster and tune the sideboard. Storm is very unfavorable unless we have Relic of Progenitus / Damping Sphere combined with Lightning Bolt to shoot down their mana dork. Same thing for KCI : Abrade and Reclamation Sage are clutch cards. Ad Nauseam is unwinnable (when I was playing Ad Nauseam, I remember that the best matchup easily was Scapeshift and Tron).
I think Esper is great against control and midrange game 1 and it gets a little bit worse game 2-3. Overall, we should win those matches. On the other hand, combo and big mana is not great game 1 and gets a lot better game 2-3. Overall, it's 50-50. Against aggro, we're bad. That's it
I've seen that Absorb is going to be Modern legal and I think it could be added to the whole 75. Maybe 1-2 copies and I'm beginning to toy with it. Here's my list :
I've always felt that Timely Reinforcement in the main was great in some matchups, then weak in others. Now with Absorb, I think Absorb can be relevant in almost all the matchups. I guess it's worh trying it, but I feel I'll stick to it. Have you guys tested it out ?
Sideboard : I think it's also pretty standard. I've tested Celestial Purge and I found that I couldn't deal with any enchantment like Choke.
Otherwise, I'm having some issues agasint combo decks and even Burn sometimes. I read the primer and the last 5 pages, we covered a little bit the subject (Sun told me that Vendilion Clique was great and it is). Thoughts about the list and some issues I've talked about guys ?
I'm getting into Grixis Control, adding Cruel Ultimatum to the list and it has been working very well for me. No K-Command or Damnation mainbord, I'm leaning toward more Electrolyze and some more counterspells. My sideboard is still to be shaped up. What are you guys up to ?
@TomCourtenay, How can you be a fan of playing Jace but not Teferi?
Nothing against Teferi, it's just that I find Jace smoother. 1 CMC less has made a difference in close games, but then again, +1 on Teferi is great ; also tucking away permanents is great. I'm very found of Secure the Wastes to end games at instant speed, but I'll see what fits best.
I'm getting back to Jeskai Control after being unsatisfied with UW Control : it seems I can't win with it. I've been trying for more than 1 year and I'm incapable of being better than something like 3-1 once in a month. I'm usually 1-3, 2-2. Once 4-0. So, I've figured I'd give the Jeskai way a shot and here's what I'll be rolling with for the next months :
I'm not a fan of Teferi, but If needed, I could take out Secure the Wastes for a 2/1 split between Jace / Teferi. Otherwise, the rest of the list is pretty standard. I'm devoting a lot of sideboard space to fight combo : I have a lot of Titanshift, Storm, Ad Nauseam and such in the meta. Some Affinity, Jund, Tron, etc. The usual suspects.
I'll be around more often, so looking forward to discuss with you guys. Any tips or ideas are gladly welcomed
In all, here's what I'll be working with (this is a first serious draft, I'm open to change a couple of things) :
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells (27)
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
4 Thought Scour
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands (24)
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Dispel
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Anger of the Gods
The things I want to adress :
1) Maybe 24 lands is too much. Not sure about it.
2) I'm comfortable with 3 Snapcaster Mage and 2 Kolaghan's Command. 4 Snapcaster Mage feels overkill sometimes to me, but 4 Cryptic Command never feels wrong.
3) For the sideboard, I'm really leaning toward the bad matchups :
Burn - 2 Dispel, 2 Collective Brutality just for that and 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is good I think. Should I need more? Like 2 Sun Droplet ?
Combo - 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Collective Brutality and 2 Dispel should do it.
Aggro - 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Collective Brutality should get the job done.
Midrange - 2 Fulminator Mage and 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet with 2 Nihil Spellbomb is ok I guess.
Tron - 2 Fulminator Mage, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Surgical Extraction and the 3 mainboard Field of Ruin should be enough right?
Cheers guys !
For the Jund matchup, I had lost 3 in a row, never being able to draw enough cards, so it went well this time. For UB Mill, I had lost 2 in a row also. I've learned to play around Archive Trap and such, in the same fashion as a Burn deck. In all, very happy with that night.
Having 2 Sfa and 2 HI is my sweet spot right now. Also, running 4 planeswalker (2 Jace, 2 Teferi) felt really good lately. I'll be settling on that for a couple of months I think. We should be good for tier 2 for sometimes, which I really don't complain about.
Cheers guys !
The best synergy to me has been so far Sphinx's Insight in conjunction with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria's +1 ability. For 2 mana (on your main phase), you can draw 2 cards and gain 2 life. It could see maybe some play, most probably in sideboard for grindy matchups and / or attrition based matchups.
Thanks for the answer ! I'm not completely sold on Illumination, Electrolyze has been pretty good to average at worst and you're making a good analysis about how it could be relevant in different situation. I'll most probably swing between 2 Illumination and 2 Electrolyze depending the meta.
However, it seems I can't win against Jund. I don't know what to put in my sideboard to win. I'm thinking about 1 Baneslayer Angel. I'm not sure if Geist of Saint Traft could be good : he's great in mirror and against combo to race, but against midrange, I don't know. What do you think ?
Cheers !
Recently, a trend in the selection of card advantage has been seen : by simply browsing through the web, we see Hieroglyphic Illumination has the go-to card for card advantage. Before that, Glimmer of Genius was considered to be a decent choice, challenging the everlasting Think Twice.
About Glimmer, Gabriel Nassif wrote : Even Erich Froehlich said on CFB :
On the other hand, Luis-Scott Vargas said on Twitter : Christian Calcano said also on Hareruya website :
So what do you guys think about the best card advantage spell of the format ? Some contenders here haven't been mentionned such as Esper Charm, so the discussion is really up to you !
1) Against discard, I guess our best option is simply redundancy : having 4 Primeval Titan, 4 Scapeshift and bringing in some more threats to overcome any discarding situation.
2) Against combo, we have to go faster and tune the sideboard. Storm is very unfavorable unless we have Relic of Progenitus / Damping Sphere combined with Lightning Bolt to shoot down their mana dork. Same thing for KCI : Abrade and Reclamation Sage are clutch cards. Ad Nauseam is unwinnable (when I was playing Ad Nauseam, I remember that the best matchup easily was Scapeshift and Tron).
Cheers !
Edit : I've seen Esper Control lists 5-0ing MTGO and they were good looking. Pretty much where we want to be right now IMO. Links : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-esper-control-63322#paper, https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1479787#paper
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Spells (25)
4 Opt
1 Oust
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
1 Absorb
4 Cryptic Command
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Terminus
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Detention Sphere
Lands (25)
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
3 Plains
2 Dispel
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Damping Sphere
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Vendilion Clique
I've always felt that Timely Reinforcement in the main was great in some matchups, then weak in others. Now with Absorb, I think Absorb can be relevant in almost all the matchups. I guess it's worh trying it, but I feel I'll stick to it. Have you guys tested it out ?
Cheers !
I've been toying around with my decklist and I have settled on something :
3 Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Spells (26)
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Cryptic Command
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands (25)
2 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Dispel
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
1 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Vendilion Clique
Mainboard : I've cutted the 2 Electolyze for 2 Hieroglyphic Illumination. Otherwise, I think the rest is stock.
Sideboard : I think it's also pretty standard. I've tested Celestial Purge and I found that I couldn't deal with any enchantment like Choke.
Otherwise, I'm having some issues agasint combo decks and even Burn sometimes. I read the primer and the last 5 pages, we covered a little bit the subject (Sun told me that Vendilion Clique was great and it is). Thoughts about the list and some issues I've talked about guys ?
Thanks for the good content on the thread!
@EvilChicken : look in my signature for a decklist suggestion !
Nothing against Teferi, it's just that I find Jace smoother. 1 CMC less has made a difference in close games, but then again, +1 on Teferi is great ; also tucking away permanents is great. I'm very found of Secure the Wastes to end games at instant speed, but I'll see what fits best.
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Secure the Wastes
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Serum Visions
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
4 Path to Exile
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Negate
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Runed Halo
1 Damping Sphere
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
I'm not a fan of Teferi, but If needed, I could take out Secure the Wastes for a 2/1 split between Jace / Teferi. Otherwise, the rest of the list is pretty standard. I'm devoting a lot of sideboard space to fight combo : I have a lot of Titanshift, Storm, Ad Nauseam and such in the meta. Some Affinity, Jund, Tron, etc. The usual suspects.
I'll be around more often, so looking forward to discuss with you guys. Any tips or ideas are gladly welcomed
Cheers !