The UW Control vs Humans matchup in the quarters in DFW was sweet Magic. Humans turned into a prison deck game 2, and UW turned into a Monastery Mentor tempo deck game 3.
**Umezawa's Jitte does not need to be unbanned. Hogaak and hopefully Bridge will eventually get banned. Please don't use this argument. It's funny that Ross Merriam believes that Jitte should be unbanned, but not Stoneforge Mystic. WTF?!?!?! Jitte further pushes people to play their's first to win creature matches (much of Modern) or play (non creature) Combo to avoid losing to those. I played during Jitte Standard. I know a lot has changed. I still think Jitte would be too much, close to what Punishing Fire does, except it is colorless.
played legacy for some years, and my opinion is we are in for some tough games if Jitte is unleashed into modern.
This equipment is some people won't realize it is broken until seen in action.
I used to think Jitte was fine. But then I built a cube and played Jitte in creature matchups. It just dominates those games.
Stoneforge is totally fine, but Jitte would be too much.
I'm down to 2 Moon after more than a year of playing 3. Needed an extra slot for grave hate. The meta will clock back around again, I'm sure. When Amulet and Tron are good, so is Moon. Also 3 color fair decks. We're especially well set up to play Moon because we have a clock down to close the game before opponents can get out from under the Moon.
If I have a threat down already, I'll cut myself off green or blue pretty readily with Moon, especially if I have Bolts or Force in hand.
EDIT I cut my Tarfire and a Vapor Snag to make room for 2x Surgical Extraction main with 3x Ravenous Trap in the board. Until Hogaak eats a ban, I think this is where we have to be for grave hate.
Agree with BloodyRabbit. If I have a Vapor Snag, Force, and another blue card in hand, I'll focus on developing my board and hitting hard. If I don't have the Snag, I'll Force the Stirring or Map or whatever. I almost never bother with Spheres and Stars.
Personally I don't like the card right now. I'm super scared to drop shoals but not playing hoots/scour seems like a direction we could go.
Definitely a consideration. It's a bit of an artifact of the decks I played against last night, though. Tarfire against a 1/2 prowess creature in a deck that plays Gut Shot is an invitation to a blowout. It kills the 2x Goblin Electromancer Storm plays, but misses Baral. Removal is terrible against Hogaak, though Bolting a Vengevine bought me a few turns last night. And against this particular Grixis deck, it hits Seasoned Pyromancer and Snapcaster, but that's pretty inconsequential, since those creatures do their job on ETB.
Tarfire is a hedge against stuff like Humans, Infect, Spirits, and the Druid combo decks I keep hearing about but not actually playing against. It's a total flex slot and could be anything: another Narset, another Spell Snare, something crazy like Surgical Extraction, etc. I like Tarfire because it's never truly dead game 1, and I'm fine with it being the first thing out in lots of matchups.
Back when I was on Shoal, I was probably 50-50 against Tron. You aggressively Shoal their setup stuff and hope they have the Karn / Ugin gameplan in hand rather than the Wurmcoil / Ulamog one so you could tag them with Stubborn Denial.
The Force build is better and more reliable against Tron, but Wurmcoil and Ulamog are still really tough for us. Also Ballista is very good against us, especially the Hexdrinker build I'm playing.
Narset and Magmatic Sinkhole have been good against control for me. Narset especially is just such an engine.
Won Monday Modern tonight. Decklist is a few posts above, except I swapped the sideboard Hazoret for a Magmatic Sinkhole to put 2 in my 75.
2-1 against 12-Bolt or whatever they call the Soul-Scar / Swiftspear / Bomat deck. Made a bonehead block that lost me game 2, but Force of Negation and Goyf were great here.
SB: - Tarfire, Sinkhole, Snare, Opt; + Dispel, EE, Pyroclasm, Anger.
2-0 against Storm. Game 1 I had all the Bolts and a big Goyf. Beat down and killed on turn 5. Narset showed up and found a Surgical game 2 and drew a concession turn 3.
SB: - Tarfire, Sinkhole, 2 Snap, 2 Opt; + Dispel, Snare, 2 Rav Trap, 2 Surgical.
2-1 against Hogaak. They had the Faithless Looting draws, which is easier to beat than the 1-mana creature draws. Lost game 1 to the creature beatdown plan. Won game 2 by Forcing Faithless Looting, Surgical on Bridge, and Spell Snare on Altar.
SB: - Narset, 2 Snap, 1 Force, 1 Sinkhole, 1 Tarfire; + 2 Surgical, 2 Rav Trap, Anger, Snare.
2-1 against Grixis Control. Discard, removal, Snapcaster, Seasoned Pyromancer, and Kess. A bit of a nemesis player and deck for me, but we got there. Game 1, I Forced his Looting and it set him back quite a bit.
SB: = 2 Snag, 4 Force, Tarfire; + Dispel, Snare, 2 Surgical, Sinkhole, Anger, EE.
Game 3 against Grixis was one for the ages. At one point, we're both at 8, he has a Snapcaster, 6 lands, and 1 card in hand, while I have 5 lands, no board, and just drew Serum Visions. Best one of my life: find Hexdrinker, scry Narset to the top, land to the bottom. Hexdrinker into one untapped Watery Grave, level to 4. Hope he doesn't have another Dreadbore, which he had already cast and bought back with the Snapcaster. Pass. He plays a land and passes. Play the Narset, minus, find my last Bolt, level Hexdrinker to 5 leaving up Bolt. Swing. He exiles a Seasoned Pyromancer and chumps with a token. Pass. He Bolts Narset, then starts furiously digging for an answer to Hexdrinker with a Serum Visions into Looting, attacks with one mana up, and passes. I'm at 5, fetch on end step, go to 4. Untap, level Hexdrinker to godmode, swing past all his stuff, and Bolt him postcombat. He shows me an EE that he found but couldn't drop and pop after looking for it the previous turn.
Narset is amazing in the grind. Hexdrinker did exactly what it's supposed to do tonight: beatdown against the combo decks while you hold up mana, and be a late game bomb against the grindy decks. I felt no need for the Hazoret or Huntmaster I've always played before. I'd play a second Narset before those, I think, if those matchups become a problem.
The Narset, Magmatic Sinkhole, Tarfire, Vapor Snags, and Spell Snare are all flex slots, as I see them. Probably the Snapcasters, too, but it's hard for me to imagine playing this deck without the extra reach and protection they provide.
In the board, the Snare, Grudge, Hazoret, and Dispel are all totally changeable. I've always played some sort of 3 or 4 mana threat out of the board, and often a pair of them, but I think Hexdrinker might make that plan obsolete. I like being able to increase threat density, but then again, in days past, I was often cutting a Mandrills for the Hazoret or Huntmasters or whatever when I was expecting grave hate, and that's not a thing I worry about anymore.
Discard any of the million recursive black aggro creatures you're playing with this. Discard Life from the Loam, dredge it, fill you hand with lands to discard. Discard Griselbrand. All sorts of uses here.
And for what it's worth, Salvation isn't going away anymore. They announced it's being maintained by a different crew. Seems like most of the staff is leaving and starting a new site. Personally, I'm waiting to see what they unveil, and I hope it becomes the spot we all decide to go. The traditional forum model has much to offer that Discord and reddit don't.
Edit: To clarify, this card basically trades out with any copies of Negate that a deck is playing. I don't think it's better than Veto in decks that can cast it, because Pact of Negation is played in many combo decks as protection, and the likelihood of absolutely needed to counter something on T1 or 2 on the draw is a worthwhile risk for uncounterable, IMO. If you don't, then you don't have an LGS full of combo decks running Pact of Negation.
Is your meta like 100% Ad Nauseam? I don't get it. Veto has some utility, sure, but Force allows you to do things heretofore basically impossible in Modern. Think about all the busted, sorcery-speed things happening across the table from you. Force allows you to tap out for a threat or walker, then counter their Manamorphose / Neoform / Altar of Dementia / Faithless Looting / planeswalker / Aether Vial / Hardened Scales / Ensnaring Bridge / whatever noncreature makes you lose the game.
The card disadvantage does not matter one bit if you're pitching a card to stop the thing that wins them the game. Think about all the busted decks in Modern, and then think about how smart you felt as you died with 5 cards in hand on turn 3.
Agreed. Makes me excited for a post Hogaak meta, whenever and however that comes.
I used to think Jitte was fine. But then I built a cube and played Jitte in creature matchups. It just dominates those games.
Stoneforge is totally fine, but Jitte would be too much.
If I have a threat down already, I'll cut myself off green or blue pretty readily with Moon, especially if I have Bolts or Force in hand.
EDIT I cut my Tarfire and a Vapor Snag to make room for 2x Surgical Extraction main with 3x Ravenous Trap in the board. Until Hogaak eats a ban, I think this is where we have to be for grave hate.
Definitely a consideration. It's a bit of an artifact of the decks I played against last night, though. Tarfire against a 1/2 prowess creature in a deck that plays Gut Shot is an invitation to a blowout. It kills the 2x Goblin Electromancer Storm plays, but misses Baral. Removal is terrible against Hogaak, though Bolting a Vengevine bought me a few turns last night. And against this particular Grixis deck, it hits Seasoned Pyromancer and Snapcaster, but that's pretty inconsequential, since those creatures do their job on ETB.
Tarfire is a hedge against stuff like Humans, Infect, Spirits, and the Druid combo decks I keep hearing about but not actually playing against. It's a total flex slot and could be anything: another Narset, another Spell Snare, something crazy like Surgical Extraction, etc. I like Tarfire because it's never truly dead game 1, and I'm fine with it being the first thing out in lots of matchups.
The Force build is better and more reliable against Tron, but Wurmcoil and Ulamog are still really tough for us. Also Ballista is very good against us, especially the Hexdrinker build I'm playing.
Won Monday Modern tonight. Decklist is a few posts above, except I swapped the sideboard Hazoret for a Magmatic Sinkhole to put 2 in my 75.
2-1 against 12-Bolt or whatever they call the Soul-Scar / Swiftspear / Bomat deck. Made a bonehead block that lost me game 2, but Force of Negation and Goyf were great here.
SB: - Tarfire, Sinkhole, Snare, Opt; + Dispel, EE, Pyroclasm, Anger.
2-0 against Storm. Game 1 I had all the Bolts and a big Goyf. Beat down and killed on turn 5. Narset showed up and found a Surgical game 2 and drew a concession turn 3.
SB: - Tarfire, Sinkhole, 2 Snap, 2 Opt; + Dispel, Snare, 2 Rav Trap, 2 Surgical.
2-1 against Hogaak. They had the Faithless Looting draws, which is easier to beat than the 1-mana creature draws. Lost game 1 to the creature beatdown plan. Won game 2 by Forcing Faithless Looting, Surgical on Bridge, and Spell Snare on Altar.
SB: - Narset, 2 Snap, 1 Force, 1 Sinkhole, 1 Tarfire; + 2 Surgical, 2 Rav Trap, Anger, Snare.
2-1 against Grixis Control. Discard, removal, Snapcaster, Seasoned Pyromancer, and Kess. A bit of a nemesis player and deck for me, but we got there. Game 1, I Forced his Looting and it set him back quite a bit.
SB: = 2 Snag, 4 Force, Tarfire; + Dispel, Snare, 2 Surgical, Sinkhole, Anger, EE.
Game 3 against Grixis was one for the ages. At one point, we're both at 8, he has a Snapcaster, 6 lands, and 1 card in hand, while I have 5 lands, no board, and just drew Serum Visions. Best one of my life: find Hexdrinker, scry Narset to the top, land to the bottom. Hexdrinker into one untapped Watery Grave, level to 4. Hope he doesn't have another Dreadbore, which he had already cast and bought back with the Snapcaster. Pass. He plays a land and passes. Play the Narset, minus, find my last Bolt, level Hexdrinker to 5 leaving up Bolt. Swing. He exiles a Seasoned Pyromancer and chumps with a token. Pass. He Bolts Narset, then starts furiously digging for an answer to Hexdrinker with a Serum Visions into Looting, attacks with one mana up, and passes. I'm at 5, fetch on end step, go to 4. Untap, level Hexdrinker to godmode, swing past all his stuff, and Bolt him postcombat. He shows me an EE that he found but couldn't drop and pop after looking for it the previous turn.
Narset is amazing in the grind. Hexdrinker did exactly what it's supposed to do tonight: beatdown against the combo decks while you hold up mana, and be a late game bomb against the grindy decks. I felt no need for the Hazoret or Huntmaster I've always played before. I'd play a second Narset before those, I think, if those matchups become a problem.
Here's what I've been playing:
4x Force of Negation
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Magmatic Sinkhole
2x Mana Leak
4x Opt
2x Spell Pierce
1x Spell Snare
1x Tarfire
2x Vapor Snag
Sorcery (6)
4x Serum Visions
2x Sleight of Hand
Planeswalker (1)
1x Narset, Parter of Veils
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
3x Wooded Foothills
Creature (14)
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Hexdrinker
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
3x Blood Moon
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Pyroclasm
2x Ravenous Trap
1x Return to Nature
1x Spell Snare
2x Surgical Extraction
The Narset, Magmatic Sinkhole, Tarfire, Vapor Snags, and Spell Snare are all flex slots, as I see them. Probably the Snapcasters, too, but it's hard for me to imagine playing this deck without the extra reach and protection they provide.
In the board, the Snare, Grudge, Hazoret, and Dispel are all totally changeable. I've always played some sort of 3 or 4 mana threat out of the board, and often a pair of them, but I think Hexdrinker might make that plan obsolete. I like being able to increase threat density, but then again, in days past, I was often cutting a Mandrills for the Hazoret or Huntmasters or whatever when I was expecting grave hate, and that's not a thing I worry about anymore.
And for what it's worth, Salvation isn't going away anymore. They announced it's being maintained by a different crew. Seems like most of the staff is leaving and starting a new site. Personally, I'm waiting to see what they unveil, and I hope it becomes the spot we all decide to go. The traditional forum model has much to offer that Discord and reddit don't.
Is your meta like 100% Ad Nauseam? I don't get it. Veto has some utility, sure, but Force allows you to do things heretofore basically impossible in Modern. Think about all the busted, sorcery-speed things happening across the table from you. Force allows you to tap out for a threat or walker, then counter their Manamorphose / Neoform / Altar of Dementia / Faithless Looting / planeswalker / Aether Vial / Hardened Scales / Ensnaring Bridge / whatever noncreature makes you lose the game.
The card disadvantage does not matter one bit if you're pitching a card to stop the thing that wins them the game. Think about all the busted decks in Modern, and then think about how smart you felt as you died with 5 cards in hand on turn 3.