no particular reason other than real life stuff that had me leave magic then get back into it. when I got back into it I built other decks. I'm commenting here because I revisit the forum thinking I'm going to remake protean hulk at some point in the near future.
I’m going to give it a shot, but since you’ve played it before. Let me ask, is it good? What things need to improve to make it better, in your opinion?
Its gotten better with collective brutality being printed. your main threat was always path to exile or counter spell of some kind. if an opponent is wise to how it works, then taking out a fatal push is key to victory as well, as they will go after your viscera seer as you sequence triggers to pull out the combo pieces.
even if the combo is disrupted by losing viscera seer, as long as you have body double or reveilark you are only 1 reanimate spell away from restarting it.
compared to legacy moderns version isn't as streamlined. we don't have worldy tutor or living wish which go and get us protean hulk. you got 8 reanimate spells in the deck, so digging for one of those reliably isn't a problem in my view, digging up the hulk is.
summoner's pact isn't my favorite card in the deck, but its sometimes a necessity and i can use it.
maybe there is some tech to designing the deck to delirium and getting traverse the ulvenwald online. which may solve the tutoring issue. "going all in" summoner's pact seems like the way to go. no matter what you'll need 4 mana to make it go off minimum.
I retired from most of the blue cards, I'm not saying opt, serum visions are bad, but I'm definitely against izzet charm too often you use it for looting when you need to hold up a counter, or you used it to counter and the next draw is a hulk and now you don't have a discard outlet left. doesn't stop most threats to the combo and can't effectively kill the creatures that threaten the combo.
against tron is one match up where I love the woodfall primus. when it goes off I take away two tron pieces buying me all the time I need for a 5/5 to get the job done.
you'll definitely want lightning axe somewhere in your deck, you'll need something to to kill Gurmag Angler or death's shadow, its a discard outlet to boot. using it either turns of stuborn denial or eats a stuborn denial, giving you a better shot at resolving footsteps. sometimes scavenging ooze gets bigger than collective brutality can handle.
If you suspect your against liliana of the veil, theres a good chance you can use it to your advantage and play through it. if they tap out for it and you still have a reanimation spell your in a golden opportunity. prior to a turn 3 liliana, if you can knock out their discard spell with your discard spell guiding them into playing a liliana.
chord of calling may not seem like a threat, but they can use it to find creatures at instant speed that will disrupt you like phyrexian revoker or others.
in legacy to combat disruption they have xantid swarm, we got Hope of Ghirapur when I wasn't playing magic, so I think its got sideboard potential. otherwise spellskite is relibale deterant for spot removal. plus all the other uses it has.
lot of emphasis is on footsteps of the goryo but Makeshift Mannequin is just as powerful. never be afraid to go for 6/6 vanilla beat down. if they tap out for and end of turn effect, say something common like a restoration angel, instant speed reanimation is not something they want to deal with. especially something that turns all there exile spells into destroy spells! anything targeting it will cause it to sacrifice. so you can throw your own collective brutality at it afterwards.
if you get the combo pieces on time your going to out race a lot of competition. or "win off the top" as they say.
no particular reason other than real life stuff that had me leave magic then get back into it. when I got back into it I built other decks. I'm commenting here because I revisit the forum thinking I'm going to remake protean hulk at some point in the near future.
sidebaord 1 labratory maniac, for the neonate combo win if needed. and 4 through the breach as back up plan to graveyard hate. 10 other cards to disrupt graveyard hate or fight through counters, or stall.
I've always been on the woodfall primus plan because its reliable value when it works, from either footsteps or breach.
wins are about 50-50 between going for primus/beatdown plan and combo.
you run primus because you know that it can be unreliable to consitently discard a protean hulk, so you need more stuff for footsteps of the goryo to reanimate.
At times i've taken the primus plan too far and added cards like Ashen Rider to ensure I get a 2 for 1, footsteps. At that point, what was needed was more filter cards, less creatures.
goblin dark-dwellers flashes back footsteps and is a decent body. I never tested it far enough to say whether more than 1 is good or not.
splashed in the one list for Renegade Rallier, that was a surprise. I like the idea behind it, its a "snapcaster-effect" for most of our decks permanents.
Personally I never got around to testing much white plash, always wanted to try Nahiri, the Harbinger
If you are playing Suicide list, then my advice or experience isn't going to help you as I've never played a suicide version. I've got experience with the combo in both modern and legacy.
damping sphere is probably the better option if you wanna squarely stop tron and storm. both of which can be an issue, if the deck is losing its fast creatures.
doesn't stop valakut, but when you think about it you can get your life total high rather quickly and be out of valakut range.
blood moon is very diverse. its commonly the silver bullet for valakut and tron, it can be a game winner in other match ups that need there multi color land. such as jund for instance or even 5 color death's shadow.
I approach my sideboard in a silver bullet mentality/design, so I'd run damping sphere.
for the red version i'm running Zurgo Bellstriker to power the mox amber, but i'm getting a lot of openers where mox is dead draw. its better than the simian spirit guide to some extent. but not the bang I was thinking it would be.
soooooo is there gonna be some kind of big summer product coming out this year? another masters set? something for commander?
All has been quiet on the Masters front. Core sets are making their return this Summer. New commander product will drop sometime in the Fall. I remember hearing about some sort of new product that's essentially a successor to Conspiracy, but that's about all I know about it.
be nice to see a return to some "regularly scheduled programing" from wizards.
3-4 sets a year with precon decks intermitenly for new players to get into the game.
-----------------------------------
Personally though I want them to drop this "prime time masters series products" its devaluing everything after its first two seasons and its later releases (2016/2017 masters) are a far cry from the quality we saw in original 2013 masters sets. 2015 masters we could feel it slipping, should of been the end for a while but it wasn't. it was followed by quick low quality successors.
was sifting through cards and discovered Cold-Eyed Selkie. Immediately this got me thinking, its devotion and it has islandwalk. for the blue splash devotion, maybe this sounds gimiky but I think its solid to run 4 Cold-Eyed Selkie along side 4 spreading seas.
cantrips plus we make a devotion card like cold-eye unblockable. now we have land distruption built into the deck as well.
pump her maybe with Rhonas the Indomitable or something and now you drawing a lot of cards or just walking in to end the game.
yes its good, its one of the most exposive turn 3 combo decks, whether you footsteps of the goryo for protean hulk or woodfall primus.
Its gotten better with collective brutality being printed. your main threat was always path to exile or counter spell of some kind. if an opponent is wise to how it works, then taking out a fatal push is key to victory as well, as they will go after your viscera seer as you sequence triggers to pull out the combo pieces.
even if the combo is disrupted by losing viscera seer, as long as you have body double or reveilark you are only 1 reanimate spell away from restarting it.
compared to legacy moderns version isn't as streamlined. we don't have worldy tutor or living wish which go and get us protean hulk. you got 8 reanimate spells in the deck, so digging for one of those reliably isn't a problem in my view, digging up the hulk is.
summoner's pact isn't my favorite card in the deck, but its sometimes a necessity and i can use it.
maybe there is some tech to designing the deck to delirium and getting traverse the ulvenwald online. which may solve the tutoring issue. "going all in" summoner's pact seems like the way to go. no matter what you'll need 4 mana to make it go off minimum.
I retired from most of the blue cards, I'm not saying opt, serum visions are bad, but I'm definitely against izzet charm too often you use it for looting when you need to hold up a counter, or you used it to counter and the next draw is a hulk and now you don't have a discard outlet left. doesn't stop most threats to the combo and can't effectively kill the creatures that threaten the combo.
against tron is one match up where I love the woodfall primus. when it goes off I take away two tron pieces buying me all the time I need for a 5/5 to get the job done.
you'll definitely want lightning axe somewhere in your deck, you'll need something to to kill Gurmag Angler or death's shadow, its a discard outlet to boot. using it either turns of stuborn denial or eats a stuborn denial, giving you a better shot at resolving footsteps. sometimes scavenging ooze gets bigger than collective brutality can handle.
If you suspect your against liliana of the veil, theres a good chance you can use it to your advantage and play through it. if they tap out for it and you still have a reanimation spell your in a golden opportunity. prior to a turn 3 liliana, if you can knock out their discard spell with your discard spell guiding them into playing a liliana.
chord of calling may not seem like a threat, but they can use it to find creatures at instant speed that will disrupt you like phyrexian revoker or others.
in legacy to combat disruption they have xantid swarm, we got Hope of Ghirapur when I wasn't playing magic, so I think its got sideboard potential. otherwise spellskite is relibale deterant for spot removal. plus all the other uses it has.
lot of emphasis is on footsteps of the goryo but Makeshift Mannequin is just as powerful. never be afraid to go for 6/6 vanilla beat down. if they tap out for and end of turn effect, say something common like a restoration angel, instant speed reanimation is not something they want to deal with. especially something that turns all there exile spells into destroy spells! anything targeting it will cause it to sacrifice. so you can throw your own collective brutality at it afterwards.
if you get the combo pieces on time your going to out race a lot of competition. or "win off the top" as they say.
4 protean hulk
2 body double
1 goblin dark-dwellers
1 reveilark
1 mogg fanatic
2 viscera seer
4 insolent neonate
4 collective brutality
3 thoughtsieze
2 summoner's pact
4 footsteps of the goryo
3 makeshift manniquin
19 land
sidebaord 1 labratory maniac, for the neonate combo win if needed. and 4 through the breach as back up plan to graveyard hate. 10 other cards to disrupt graveyard hate or fight through counters, or stall.
I've always been on the woodfall primus plan because its reliable value when it works, from either footsteps or breach.
wins are about 50-50 between going for primus/beatdown plan and combo.
you run primus because you know that it can be unreliable to consitently discard a protean hulk, so you need more stuff for footsteps of the goryo to reanimate.
At times i've taken the primus plan too far and added cards like Ashen Rider to ensure I get a 2 for 1, footsteps. At that point, what was needed was more filter cards, less creatures.
goblin dark-dwellers flashes back footsteps and is a decent body. I never tested it far enough to say whether more than 1 is good or not.
I do have hopes of Darigaaz Reincarnated in a footsteps deck.
you could run Final Parting, but I feel like its too expensive for a card that sets up protean hulk.
two titan shift in this top 8.
splashed in the one list for Renegade Rallier, that was a surprise. I like the idea behind it, its a "snapcaster-effect" for most of our decks permanents.
Personally I never got around to testing much white plash, always wanted to try Nahiri, the Harbinger
If you are playing Suicide list, then my advice or experience isn't going to help you as I've never played a suicide version. I've got experience with the combo in both modern and legacy.
doesn't stop valakut, but when you think about it you can get your life total high rather quickly and be out of valakut range.
blood moon is very diverse. its commonly the silver bullet for valakut and tron, it can be a game winner in other match ups that need there multi color land. such as jund for instance or even 5 color death's shadow.
I approach my sideboard in a silver bullet mentality/design, so I'd run damping sphere.
---------------------------------------------------
has anyone used the mox amber yet?
I'm thinking of playing 8 legend, with norin the wary and Zurgo Bellstriker. plus 1 or 2 squee, the immortal, use goblin chainwhirler to cut down opponent's myr tokens.
while a large chunk of the deck is humans, how has Thalia's Lieutenant performed?
its not getting me to 5 mana any faster either for through the breach.
I feel like molten vortex, life from the loam is just what is needed right now for murdering the humans deck meta game.
is Ramunap Ruins the only land in modern that deals damages directly to players?
other than Keldon Megaliths
I can definitely get behind Kolaghan's Command since it can do more for you than lightning bolt. getting back fulminator mage or bloodbraid elf is typical jund value, I'm sure it will do wonders even in ponza.
4 Jadelight Ranger
4 arbor elf
1 eternal witness
1 acidic slime
1 craterhoof behemoth
2 walking ballista
1 Verdurous Gearhulk
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 lord of atlantis
2 nissa, voice of zendikar
4 spreading seas
4 utopia sprawl
4 traverse the ulvenwald
4 misty rainforest
1 windswept heath
4 breeding pool
1 hinterland harbor
1 temple garden
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
8 forest
sideboard is all over the place.
I've been messing around with distanful stroke, Aetherize, Profaner of the Dead.
got 1 gaddock teeg and 1 selfless spirit sideboard. 3 spellskite for valakut, infect, burn.
be nice to see a return to some "regularly scheduled programing" from wizards.
3-4 sets a year with precon decks intermitenly for new players to get into the game.
-----------------------------------
Personally though I want them to drop this "prime time masters series products" its devaluing everything after its first two seasons and its later releases (2016/2017 masters) are a far cry from the quality we saw in original 2013 masters sets. 2015 masters we could feel it slipping, should of been the end for a while but it wasn't. it was followed by quick low quality successors.
spreading seas plus Cold-Eyed Selkie was looking like a strong synergy for the deck.
cantrips plus we make a devotion card like cold-eye unblockable. now we have land distruption built into the deck as well.
pump her maybe with Rhonas the Indomitable or something and now you drawing a lot of cards or just walking in to end the game.
interesting to see, but if i'm not mistaken Curdbros or someone else was farther ahead in developing and trying kiora devotion?