Considering how much that card is stupid dumb in Legacy, you really think it needs to be in Modern too? It will warp the format. It should be buried like Atari E.T.
it was in modern before and the format was fine then.
Huh..no it wasn't.
They banned BBE for its sins. When they realized that in fact, it was our little "innocuous" friend the offender, they axed him. That was what finally put the nail in the coffin for Jund. It's a 1 mana planeswalker. People would build decks with splashing black/green with the sole purpose of using this card. It's represented in over 40% of the meta in Legacy. For all its worth, it should ALSO be banned in Legacy.
theres two cards that make use of late game's full graveyards to close out the game, deathrite shaman is just a little more efficient.
because he's a mana dork in addition to being a late game creature, he should be banned? (not in my book)
Wizards can't kill jund in one ban, so they make in vain bans in order to mess it up, IE deathrite shaman and bloodbraid elf.
I say let us have deathrite back. bad enough bloodbraid elf whips out threats bigger than deathrite and then has an aggressive body to swing into action on top of that cascade.
I really wish your arguments weren't superfluous because I don't think you know what you're talking about.
Neither of these cards do anything like what Shaman does. Otherwise we'd see oozes all over the place in legacy too (same for snap).
Shaman is:
- A mana accelerant
- Gains you life
- Kills your opponent without ever attacking them
- Controls graveyards
There's a reason he's referred to as the 1 mana planeswalker. The card is VASTLY more powerful than both Ooze and Snap. And when a card this good finds itself in nearly 50% of the top legacy decks...you know it might be problematic. The whole format warps around that card.
And that's the problem with shaman: warping a format.
Shaman is kind of like this one card that makes virtually any splash for it worth it. It makes your deck actively better by splashing it. Even if you're splashing a 5th color. That's format warping. It should rightfully remain on the banned list.
Ps. BBE is a card you need to build around, it has limitations in what it can effectively do. Shaman has zero building constraints save "Play black mana".
legacy and modern are so different that its not a fair comparison. Modern operates on different banning contexts than legacy.
given the state of modern, I think its safe to reintroduce him.
Moderns already warped in that if you don't play spot removal early creatures you'll lose in the race or never stablilize. since we are so warped in having to run such removal, adding another creature you must destroy to the format, (adding another target) isn't going to hurt the format.
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Considering how much that card is stupid dumb in Legacy, you really think it needs to be in Modern too? It will warp the format. It should be buried like Atari E.T.
it was in modern before and the format was fine then.
Huh..no it wasn't.
They banned BBE for its sins. When they realized that in fact, it was our little "innocuous" friend the offender, they axed him. That was what finally put the nail in the coffin for Jund. It's a 1 mana planeswalker. People would build decks with splashing black/green with the sole purpose of using this card. It's represented in over 40% of the meta in Legacy. For all its worth, it should ALSO be banned in Legacy.
theres two cards that make use of late game's full graveyards to close out the game, deathrite shaman is just a little more efficient.
because he's a mana dork in addition to being a late game creature, he should be banned? (not in my book)
Wizards can't kill jund in one ban, so they make in vain bans in order to mess it up, IE deathrite shaman and bloodbraid elf.
I say let us have deathrite back. bad enough bloodbraid elf whips out threats bigger than deathrite and then has an aggressive body to swing into action on top of that cascade.
jund itself drives me crazy, in my recent round of losing too it, the guy was using the -2 ability to use and abuse the same bloodbraid elf for a lot of dig/gas.
considering how creature centric we tend to be I'm considering splash for her.
That's actually a really interesting idea. I could totally see a Jund version of Walker deck or even just Golgari (as we have plenty of awesome creatures to use)...I am a BIG fan of the Vraska, Relic Seeker (it is a really powerful card)...and Liliana, the Last Hope is actually a really interesting idea...she is early tiny creature removal, and her -2 is really good not only just because we play a lot of creatures; but likely performs well with Eternal Witness and to a lesser extent Nissa, Vital Force.
Super interesting idea. I haven't tried it yet...but I could totally see a Golgari Walker deck being strong (as you would have access to both Liliana TLH and Vraska RS as well as a ton of great sideboard options).
the way i look at it liliana, the last hope for this deck she is eternal witness 5+ or 5-8. or you could say she is "eternal witness on a stick" every couple turns. considering we have a lot of ETB abilities more eternal witness for creature effects might be a good thing. On top of that milling the two cards is filter.
on top of that we don't have to pay 3 to get a walking ballista back to our hand in the turns following the turn we played her which is an improvement over having to cast eternal witness for a walking ballista in the same turn you want to cast it.
Considering how much that card is stupid dumb in Legacy, you really think it needs to be in Modern too? It will warp the format. It should be buried like Atari E.T.
it was in modern before and the format was fine then.
its not a devotion deck, but by its design its not that far off. infact devotion carts might make it more consistent at its top end when trying to cast the fatties instead of cremating them for combo damage.
So with a certain goblin coming out we now have a sacrifice outlet for murderous redcap to go infinite, in a goblin deck. however traditionally redcap has been in other combo oriented decks and not a pure goblin deck. using Melira, Sylvok Outcast from , or more recently Vizier of Remedies from .
So I have to ask, what is the better combo piece (or color) to put into a goblin themed deck that is also going to run murderous redcap for an infinite damage combo?
I'm strictly looking at this from a goblin aggro perspective, I'm not concerned entirely with how do I set up a redcap combo deck, we already have a deck that does that, I'm more so trying to weigh, which color is better to splash, just so i can do this infinite combo in addition to a regular goblin decks.
jund itself drives me crazy, in my recent round of losing too it, the guy was using the -2 ability to use and abuse the same bloodbraid elf for a lot of dig/gas.
considering how creature centric we tend to be I'm considering splash for her.
Altough Vault of the Archangel is a pretty good tech card in white splash. Not sure how relevant it would be against burn, since it needs at least turn 5 to be activated.
Adding lifelink and death touch to the creatures is relevant
In the past I've added 2 Ready // Willing to the deck to to get the effect more consistently. Later years I swapped it for Sorin, Solemn Visitor, life link, token making, and sometimes them emblem proved more relevant for the match ups where rest in peace was an issue and you had to hard cast creatures.
I find that new pushed uncommon Kavu interesting for Stompy Devotion... It’s scalable and has trample. I know they have a lot of viable 2-drops so it takes a lot to get into the deck...i just love any 2-drop with Trample when you’re playing Aspect of Hydra.
I'm guessing you might of already tried it, but did you ever play grim flayer for the 2 drop?
boil is the other control hate card, strickly speaking with the taking turns deck, they are 99% islands.
against other control its fulminator mage business as usual, but you bring in boil hoping to X for 1 any islands you leave behind, basics or dual type island lands.
hey deathmist raptor is in my graveyard and I got a Arguel's Blood Fast on the battlefield. once it flips to transform, does that trigger deathmist raptor to return from the gravetard?
adventurous impulse looks nice. between it and oath of nissa, hypothetically a chunk of the deck is becoming filter. with all that filter is there something we can delve for?
this might be a far stretch but I may have gone off the deep end with this 5 color devotion.
It aims to play like most of the other lists, but It has 4 sidisi, brood tyrant and 2 unburial rites in the deck. Majority of the deck is low powered creatures, so using sidisi, your netting him + 1-3 2/2 creature tokens via his mill ability. So in this build whether you hard cast or mill creatures your still getting the same value in creatures. A couple unburial rites ensure that any milled craterhoof behemoth, hornet queen, or primeval titan gets on the field and is used.
against taking turns ricochet trap has been the only way for me to beat them in the past, stealing the extra turns on taps out. catching them with choke has worked too.
I've given playing that cremator deck a try and there is some strategy to it that I like, but i've never really played with a evolution centered list.
legacy and modern are so different that its not a fair comparison. Modern operates on different banning contexts than legacy.
given the state of modern, I think its safe to reintroduce him.
Moderns already warped in that if you don't play spot removal early creatures you'll lose in the race or never stablilize. since we are so warped in having to run such removal, adding another creature you must destroy to the format, (adding another target) isn't going to hurt the format.
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snapcaster mage commits sins no greater than deathrite shaman its not banned.
scavenging ooze is in the same catagory.
theres two cards that make use of late game's full graveyards to close out the game, deathrite shaman is just a little more efficient.
because he's a mana dork in addition to being a late game creature, he should be banned? (not in my book)
Wizards can't kill jund in one ban, so they make in vain bans in order to mess it up, IE deathrite shaman and bloodbraid elf.
I say let us have deathrite back. bad enough bloodbraid elf whips out threats bigger than deathrite and then has an aggressive body to swing into action on top of that cascade.
the way i look at it liliana, the last hope for this deck she is eternal witness 5+ or 5-8. or you could say she is "eternal witness on a stick" every couple turns. considering we have a lot of ETB abilities more eternal witness for creature effects might be a good thing. On top of that milling the two cards is filter.
on top of that we don't have to pay 3 to get a walking ballista back to our hand in the turns following the turn we played her which is an improvement over having to cast eternal witness for a walking ballista in the same turn you want to cast it.
it was in modern before and the format was fine then.
its not a devotion deck, but by its design its not that far off. infact devotion carts might make it more consistent at its top end when trying to cast the fatties instead of cremating them for combo damage.
So I have to ask, what is the better combo piece (or color) to put into a goblin themed deck that is also going to run murderous redcap for an infinite damage combo?
I'm strictly looking at this from a goblin aggro perspective, I'm not concerned entirely with how do I set up a redcap combo deck, we already have a deck that does that, I'm more so trying to weigh, which color is better to splash, just so i can do this infinite combo in addition to a regular goblin decks.
jund itself drives me crazy, in my recent round of losing too it, the guy was using the -2 ability to use and abuse the same bloodbraid elf for a lot of dig/gas.
considering how creature centric we tend to be I'm considering splash for her.
Adding lifelink and death touch to the creatures is relevant
In the past I've added 2 Ready // Willing to the deck to to get the effect more consistently. Later years I swapped it for Sorin, Solemn Visitor, life link, token making, and sometimes them emblem proved more relevant for the match ups where rest in peace was an issue and you had to hard cast creatures.
I'm guessing you might of already tried it, but did you ever play grim flayer for the 2 drop?
against other control its fulminator mage business as usual, but you bring in boil hoping to X for 1 any islands you leave behind, basics or dual type island lands.
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this might be a far stretch but I may have gone off the deep end with this 5 color devotion.
It aims to play like most of the other lists, but It has 4 sidisi, brood tyrant and 2 unburial rites in the deck. Majority of the deck is low powered creatures, so using sidisi, your netting him + 1-3 2/2 creature tokens via his mill ability. So in this build whether you hard cast or mill creatures your still getting the same value in creatures. A couple unburial rites ensure that any milled craterhoof behemoth, hornet queen, or primeval titan gets on the field and is used.
2 craterhoof behemoth
1 Hornet Queen
1 Cultivator of Blades
1 primeval titan
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Strangleroot Geist
4 Arbor Elf
2 birds of paradise
3 Summoner's Pact
2 unburial rites
4 Garruk wildspeaker
[21]
1 city of brass
1 Breeding Pool
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 overgrown tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
5 Forest