what about to supplement the exile effects of relic of progenitor, instead of the claws theres something like pyxis of pandemonium. its a 1 drop, exiles right away, you might not know what you're returning to graveyard because the cards are face down, but the deck can make a lot of mana and its much in your favour if you use the second ability since you can remove the cards from the other persons pile.
so someone recently started showing up to FNM with merfolk so i guess I'm going to have to start coming up with a contingency for how to beat them. What are your guys takes on the match. Right now I've got 4 paths and 3 bolts main decked regardless and then out of the SB if got fiery justice and EE. seems like a lot but games 2 and 3 he just exploded onto the field
Just to be clear davius i wasnt criticizing the idea just wondering about its viability. I like the list. Im actually going to pick up some copies tonight and start playing around with BtL. I would say the deck could benifit from a caryatid or two though if you are going for 5C kiki
Yup either are options, i would say just any sort of interaction, whether it is bigger creatures (which dropping CoCo allows you to do, ebpnjoy all the 4+ cmc creatures) thinks like resto angels, or ojutai, detention sphere, chord of calling. Dropping CoCo opens lots of possibilities. Itll just take some playing on what you want to fill it with.
But you have to remember the deck does slow down a bit by dropping CoCo but it makes up for it in becoming slighly more reliable in what its casting.
Just thinking maybe there is something in bring to light. reduces the whole chord effect of "kiki-chord" but you could go 5 colour, casting BTL off the backs of birds and even sylvan caryatid. what you'd have access to basically the best of the best in cards, rhinos, angels, kiki, karanos, coursers, and then probably goyfs (since the deck than naturally includes , lands, creatures, enchantments, sorcery, instants) I don't know might be crazy but 5 colours has lots of options. and just except you lose to blood moon every time
Are you still trying to make midrange work? If so what interaction are you running besides path/D-commands. The one of Valorous Stance in the board has proven to be very useful so I'm running it in the main now.
Also isn't mana leak awkward for you with path?
Yep! I'm still on midrange, I really liked how its been playing and I've started to see a bunch more midrangey decks pop up around here, its great to see.
Mana leak is not ideal with path but its not terrible either. look at a lot of the UW creature control decks that have been doing well recently. They sometimes are playing 4 paths alongside 4 leaks. Its rare to have them totally dead, people just love using as much mana as possible. Sometimes people just go "yup" and pay the 3 mana but until there is anything as versatile as leak (it hits anything) its still going to be the best option modern has (or at least the least awful option).
Currently the "interaction" I'm playing are 4 paths, 2 dromokas and 3 mana leaks. I consider interaction anything that slows or disrupts what the other person is doing so the counterspells fit in that category. They're like removal but before the card hits the field. So like i said thats 9 pieces of interaction. I was running a 10th with a single cryptic command but it was always hard to cast. But I've always just found dromokas disappointing in the main. sometimes it does awesome things like reloading finks and 2-for-1'ing in combat for blow out blocks and fights. but its let me down so many times as well where a card that just read "kill a creature" would have been a million times better. so thats what I'm looking at now. i have to pick up 2 copies but right now I'm liking the sounds of swift reckoning but heres the other ones I've found warranting consideration at least oust, reciprocate, smite, sunlance(if this was an instant i would play this in an absolute heartbeat), azorius charm, crystallization, runed halo, valorous stance and reality shift
Havnt tried retreat here but ive found the card to be extremely playable in other shells. So give it a shot and let us know what you think. I cant really knock it till ive tried it myself. Retreat seems like it plays nice with mana dorks and kiki, but seems subpar by adding some maybe unneeded colour requirments to the deck. I generally dislike adding a colour to the deck for only a single card
Sure there is, the scenario of the turn you play the knight. Unluss he is getting haste somehow neither KotR nor the uncracked fetch are finding sejerri step, and if its in your hand the land cant be played in response.
I agree with whats been said about sejeri. 1/100 games you'll blank removal. But 5/100 its going to cost you the game for being a restrictive tap land
The only reason i see having it is for its cheap rogues passage effect, to let an attacker get through bevause there are going to be times when they dont have removal but do have defenders. Still dont think its worth it
Re: Clique - i am currently running one, its been okay, sort of in a weird spot but it is nice when you want to hold counter magic and then still have the option to use mana (clique and resto are nice like that.
Another thought ive had, ive found two spots im my list id like to shore up. First is removal. I dislike relying solely on 4 paths to protect myself. They are aweful early game and certain creatures just dont deserve a path. Currently i am playong 2 dromokas command to add the slightest extra bit of removal. Problems with that is its a jack of all trades card, master of none. The red counter is situational, so is enchantment destruction, +1/+1 is situational and the fight ability also has the same problem of path in being terrible early game before you have a good creature base, or plays into 2-for-1's another bad thing. The other thing id like to shore up is reliably growing goyf, i pnly play 2 so i dont need it as a cornerstone.
But those few problems led me to look at swift reckoning it can be played early enough, easy mana cost, not dependent on having a creature fight, hard removal, enemy creatures can be tapped down to turn it on with retreat, late game should be an instant, but still counts as a sorcery for goyf.
Bant just really has terrible removal other than paths. I usually like to run between 7-10 peices of interaction which now is 4 path, 3 counterspells of some nature and 2 extra something removals (currently dromokas C) but im going to be trying both swift reckoning and sun lance. Anyone have any other ideas of 1-2 cmc removal for bant? Detention sphere is boarder line there for me, its just one too many, but it hits everything so maybe, also crystallization is close to
So far the deck feels very smooth. The mulligans have all felt good. It has a good amount of hate and ways of dealing with all sorts of threats between Path, Detention Sphere and Qasali. So a few pieces of tech in the deck. I included commune with the gods, which has been pretty bonkers so far. Unless I really have nothing better to do, I almost never play it turn 2, but it is a bonkers play when you have 5 mana up. Grab your Retreat and combo off, or find your detention sphere and land your answer. I have also lived the dream of playing a 1/2 goyf, passing and then next turn commune, dump a creature, enchantment, instant and land, grab a detention sphere to clear the way for a 5/6 goyf. I have dumped 4 lands before, sadly no knight in play. It breaks parity nicely late in the game and can find our game winners.
I dropped Retreat to 3 because I can dig for it, and because I wanted to include Sun Titan. He has yet to see play, but seems like a great way to grind out a long game and he synergizes well with commune as well. I went up to 23 lands and it makes the draws feel better. It also protects from dumping too many in the yard. Without the kessig I was able to do a turn 3 kill, but cap out at 23 dmg, but I feel like I kind of want kessig back instead of rogues to make sure I can end the game in the face of life gain, but not sure. A sweeper would also be nice, but not sure what that would be besides a wrath (planar outburst ;))
CP Im digging the looks of this deck, keep going with it and keep us updated with how the testing goes. I think this is the best list I've seen in terms of supporting Goyf so nicely done with that. Between 4 goyf, 3 loxodon, 4 KotR and a titan you might be able to support stubborn denial. just some food for thought, don't know where you would add it, maybe SB
i think the biggest drawback of caryatid is that spending 2 mana to ramp is too slow, you really want to be able to play the bird turn 1 if you've got it, if it gets bolted its not the worst. But a T1 bird makes it possible to combo out on turn 3. a T2 caryatid means the earliest you could combo is turn 4, something you could do anyways without the caryatid.
dromoka might have some applications if your meta has lots of control. i think Ojutai is better in general as it has built in protection and built in evasion, and an incredible ability if it hits face.
But you have to remember the deck does slow down a bit by dropping CoCo but it makes up for it in becoming slighly more reliable in what its casting.
Yep! I'm still on midrange, I really liked how its been playing and I've started to see a bunch more midrangey decks pop up around here, its great to see.
Mana leak is not ideal with path but its not terrible either. look at a lot of the UW creature control decks that have been doing well recently. They sometimes are playing 4 paths alongside 4 leaks. Its rare to have them totally dead, people just love using as much mana as possible. Sometimes people just go "yup" and pay the 3 mana but until there is anything as versatile as leak (it hits anything) its still going to be the best option modern has (or at least the least awful option).
Currently the "interaction" I'm playing are 4 paths, 2 dromokas and 3 mana leaks. I consider interaction anything that slows or disrupts what the other person is doing so the counterspells fit in that category. They're like removal but before the card hits the field. So like i said thats 9 pieces of interaction. I was running a 10th with a single cryptic command but it was always hard to cast. But I've always just found dromokas disappointing in the main. sometimes it does awesome things like reloading finks and 2-for-1'ing in combat for blow out blocks and fights. but its let me down so many times as well where a card that just read "kill a creature" would have been a million times better. so thats what I'm looking at now. i have to pick up 2 copies but right now I'm liking the sounds of swift reckoning but heres the other ones I've found warranting consideration at least
oust, reciprocate, smite, sunlance(if this was an instant i would play this in an absolute heartbeat), azorius charm, crystallization, runed halo, valorous stance and reality shift
I agree with whats been said about sejeri. 1/100 games you'll blank removal. But 5/100 its going to cost you the game for being a restrictive tap land
The only reason i see having it is for its cheap rogues passage effect, to let an attacker get through bevause there are going to be times when they dont have removal but do have defenders. Still dont think its worth it
Another thought ive had, ive found two spots im my list id like to shore up. First is removal. I dislike relying solely on 4 paths to protect myself. They are aweful early game and certain creatures just dont deserve a path. Currently i am playong 2 dromokas command to add the slightest extra bit of removal. Problems with that is its a jack of all trades card, master of none. The red counter is situational, so is enchantment destruction, +1/+1 is situational and the fight ability also has the same problem of path in being terrible early game before you have a good creature base, or plays into 2-for-1's another bad thing. The other thing id like to shore up is reliably growing goyf, i pnly play 2 so i dont need it as a cornerstone.
But those few problems led me to look at swift reckoning it can be played early enough, easy mana cost, not dependent on having a creature fight, hard removal, enemy creatures can be tapped down to turn it on with retreat, late game should be an instant, but still counts as a sorcery for goyf.
Bant just really has terrible removal other than paths. I usually like to run between 7-10 peices of interaction which now is 4 path, 3 counterspells of some nature and 2 extra something removals (currently dromokas C) but im going to be trying both swift reckoning and sun lance. Anyone have any other ideas of 1-2 cmc removal for bant? Detention sphere is boarder line there for me, its just one too many, but it hits everything so maybe, also crystallization is close to
CP Im digging the looks of this deck, keep going with it and keep us updated with how the testing goes. I think this is the best list I've seen in terms of supporting Goyf so nicely done with that. Between 4 goyf, 3 loxodon, 4 KotR and a titan you might be able to support stubborn denial. just some food for thought, don't know where you would add it, maybe SB
dromoka might have some applications if your meta has lots of control. i think Ojutai is better in general as it has built in protection and built in evasion, and an incredible ability if it hits face.