So far, these are the ones that look like they have the most powerful and cost effective effects. Sun-Crowned Hunters if it didn't cost 6 would be good but... it's too expensive without doing other things. The Aegisaur and Ballista are a good combo, but for 6 mana you can just slam the new Carnage Tyrant. Also, what is there in Standard to make your creatures indestructible? Anything?
Matches were against GR Scapeshift (2-1), UW Control (2-0), GB Value/discard (2-0) Tasigur was huge in a couple of games...Eidolon barely did any work at all. Searing Blaze got boarded out a lot, boarding with Burn is hard because you have to anticipate what's coming in. I always just assume some kind of lifegain and possibly Leyline of Sanctity, so I board in Skullcracks and Revelry a lot. Fatal Push was pretty good against the GB deck.. lots of Scavenging Ooze, Grim Flayer, and Tarmogoyf there. UW boarded in Spreading Seas against me which was surprisingly effective, but I have a lot of backup colored mana sources. Revelry was big to get rid of it.
I'm seriously considering adding a couple Sacred Foundry and going for a truly greedy base with some Boros Charm instead of Searing Blaze main. That would give me some things out of the board I like, too, like Rest in Peace and Stony Silence, as well as Deflecting Palm. I'm not a huge fan of Lightning Helix maindeck in a list like that, 2 mana for 3 damage is not where I want to be (hence why I am considering adding Boros Charm over Searing Blaze)
Although my roots are in non-blue control decks, the two archetypes I've had the most fun with in Standard over the past few years are Combo (Exarch Twin, 5 color Door to Nothingness), and Ramp (played a LOT of Primeval Titan decks in standard) so now the decks I love to play in Modern are...
Dredge, Burn, and Infect, because they have the same "feel" to me as Exarch Twin. I really dislike the "Eggs" style combo decks, or anything Storm related. Dredge and Infect just make me really happy to win with, while Burn is like a puzzle to unravel, the amount of decision making keeps me interested. Mill is something I've also played around with, I love anything that is a "gotcha" for cracking a fetch in Modern.
Tron because slamming giant powerhouse cards like Ugin (especially Ugin) and Karn are a lot of fun to me.
Control decks are just too durdly in general, though I'll have to give Jeskai Nahiri a try...though I generally loathe anything with counterspells.
Deploy the Gatewatch Anyone else think a ramp deck in Modern based around this is viable? Maybe in Tron? Turn 3 Deploy into Nicol Bolas / Karn / Ugin , any 2 of those seems good. Basically it extends your hand, right? Just spitballing. This card seems super powerful for eternal formats.
My entire Animar, Soul of Elements deck got axed due to power level. Yeah, it's fun, and it has a theme (all permanents + Primal Surge) but it's non-interactive as hell. A lot of the individual cards cropping up in this thread are in it : Prime Speaker Zegana, Palinchron, Craterhoof Behemoth, just a bunch of "I win" in it. In competetive Magic I love non-interactive decks, but for a format like Commander I prefer to make it more about the journey than the destination.
Animar is a very easy general to break and make super-powerful without even trying hard. Indeed, if you are even a minimally competent deck builder, it's probably harder to build a non-broken Animar deck than it is to build a broken-as-heck one.
You're right about that, for sure, it just appealed to me in the sense that it had a theme (all permanents + Primal Surge was something I tried like heck to do in Standard) and I like commanders who can swing in themselves for a win as a backup plan, too, and Animar checks all the boxes. Maybe if I just took out Cloudstone Curio it could feel sane again.
My entire Animar, Soul of Elements deck got axed due to power level. Yeah, it's fun, and it has a theme (all permanents + Primal Surge) but it's non-interactive as hell. A lot of the individual cards cropping up in this thread are in it : Prime Speaker Zegana, Palinchron, Craterhoof Behemoth, just a bunch of "I win" in it. In competetive Magic I love non-interactive decks, but for a format like Commander I prefer to make it more about the journey than the destination.
In my Ghave deck, I still run Seedborn Muse, Academy Rector, and the Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion combo but I cut Tooth and Nail as well as Defense of the Heart. I still use Demonic Tutor, Eladamri's Call, and the above mentioned Rector as tutors, but unlike Animar, this deck's gameplan can definitely be slowed and stopped by interaction. Mike + Trike never see the field at the same time unless the game is just dragging on, and both creatures fit the overall theme of the commander anyways, so I allowed them to stay (+1/+1 counters and tokens being the themes)
Tooth and Nail was just too often an instant win. The same with Craterhoof Behemoth. If I played more blue decks, I sure wouldn't include Cyclonic Rift in any of them, either, because it's pretty anti-climatic as far as who wins after that.
Isochron Scepter is a must-have here. It's so good with something like Orim's Chant, or even Swords to Plowshares or Reverberate imprinted on it. I think Marath, Will of the Wild is going to be your best bet for a general, it's really versatile, really good, and gets better as the game progresses. Multiple Eternal Witness type things, Celestial Dawn to really amp up your Sunforger package, which suffers from not being able to whip up a counterspell at a moment's notice, but it's still very versatile. if you go with Marath, Illusionist's Bracers kind of fits your theme, since basically he has three "spells" always on tap, and this will let you double them. Don't forget mana rocks, and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight.
Lots of excellent suggestions from jackalicehiv. Champion of Lambholt is certainly crazy, and is constantly on the borderline. I tended to power down my list a little, at least in terms of "oh i can just win now". Worm Harvest is absolutely excellent, especially if you can use Life from the Loam. Ezuri's Predation I feel would be hit or miss. Really awesome in the right meta, and really good against Ghave, incidentally, haha. I did run Mentor of the Meek for a while, but it became awkward once Mirari's Wake or a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad emblem or another "comes into play with +1/+1 counters on it" effect was out, but if you don't run those it's really good. You're right in that card draw can be a problem for Ghave. If you invest heavily into both tokens AND +1/+1 counters like my list does, Greater Good becomes worth consideration, especially if you play from the graveyard a lot. I'll definitely consider Deathreap Ritual for my own list as well. Another thing if you fear board wipes... Fresh Meat. Ghave is pretty resilient, but this card can seriously punish someone for wiping your board. If there's a doubler in play... that's just evil. Also, Crop Rotation is amazing if you are lucky enough to have a Gaea's Cradle!
I play (mostly) non-combo Ghave, and there are a few things I can tell you just from a general strategic standpoint.
You definitely want token producers that are reusable or just provide a HUGE number all at once. If they're only bringing in 2-3 tokens, it's not really worth it unless the card has some secondary effect (Catacomb Sifter, for instance)
However, the single most powerful card in the deck for me has been Seedborn Muse. When you can't have the four armed Kruphix guy, this is absolutely the next best thing. Ghave is incredibly mana hungry and having this lets you play on your opponents' turns.
You're going to want sac outlets besides Ghave. Ghave costs mana to sacrifice things. Having a FREE sacrifice outlet is a huge deal, I've found. I run a few : Carrion Feeder - sac outlet that gives you more +1/+1 counters to play with Smothering Abomination - drawing cards is good Sadistic Hypnotist - very very mean but if you're looking to win... Ashnod's Altar Phyrexian Altar
Even if Artifact hate is rampant, just wait until you can set up a big turn with these.
You're going to want a lot more ramp if you're playing non- combo. Since artifacts are out, I'll suggest : Farseek Wood Elves Skyshroud Claim Nature's Lore
all of which can be used to fetch up a dual land. Three Visits as well if you can find one.
Don't forget Murmuring Bosk, the forgotten tri-land!
These are cards I was talking about earlier. They just don't bring enough tokens to justify the cost. Grave Titan and Avenger of Zendikar are exceptions to this rule, but the rest of these guys just belong in something like Roon that blinks them over and over. I also find Acidic Slime a bit weak, your mileage may vary, though.
Yeah the ramp spells are very meh. Nothing even as good as Rampant Growth, which is sad. Although I must say on the top end, Explosive Vegetation and Nissa's Renewal are actually QUITE good. But back to Kozilek... the two colorless requirement kind of puts me off on him even though I run 9 colorless sources. I just don't like NEEDING them. I suppose we'll be able to ramp up Wastes with some of our spells.
I'm going over these guys in my mind and I'm just not sure any of them are worth dropping down from 3-4 Ulamog and 3-4 Ugin for. Endbringer is pretty tricksy, but very, very grindy, is it a viable substitute for an Ulamog? Kozilek just seems... odd, I'm not sure ramp wants him. World Breaker has possibilities, maybe a sideboard card? Or as part of a ramp / LD strategy along with Crumble to Dust and Oblivion Sower?
I've updated the list with BFZ and Commander 2015. It's 98 cards, one open slot and one for a particular planeswalker from OGW. On the cutting block currently : Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - just feels... slow. Phyrexian Arena - may not be needed with the addition of Smothering Abomination.
Thinking about swapping out the painlands for the battle lands just because I can search them up with the "search a forest" cards, as well as Farseek.
Cards I'm considering right now : Martial Coup - Could be a good token producer that leaves me with a board after a wrath, and the deck ramps hard as it is. Secure the Wastes - cheaper , faster Coup without the Wrath. Garruk, Apex Predator - token producer, win-con, life gain, control... the list is already top heavy but he might warrant inclusion. Sorin, Solemn Visitor - better tokens than his other self. Falkenrath Noble - removed him for Zulaport, but maybe a 3rd effect like this is needed? Mycoloth - seems slow but powerful, has been recommended to me. Still not dropped 5$ on one though. Phyrexian Reclamation - removed it for various other things, but this is solid utility.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar is finding a home in Ghave, for sure. token creatures (that incidentally trigger from Avenger of Zendikar) and +1/+1 counters? Yep, sign me up for that.
4 Walking Ballista
4 Ripjaw Raptor
?? Ranging Raptors
?? Ravenous Daggertooth
So far, these are the ones that look like they have the most powerful and cost effective effects. Sun-Crowned Hunters if it didn't cost 6 would be good but... it's too expensive without doing other things. The Aegisaur and Ballista are a good combo, but for 6 mana you can just slam the new Carnage Tyrant. Also, what is there in Standard to make your creatures indestructible? Anything?
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Grim Lavamancer
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Atarka's Command
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
2 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Copperline Gorge
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Skullcrack
4 Destructive Revelry
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Fatal Push
Matches were against GR Scapeshift (2-1), UW Control (2-0), GB Value/discard (2-0) Tasigur was huge in a couple of games...Eidolon barely did any work at all. Searing Blaze got boarded out a lot, boarding with Burn is hard because you have to anticipate what's coming in. I always just assume some kind of lifegain and possibly Leyline of Sanctity, so I board in Skullcracks and Revelry a lot. Fatal Push was pretty good against the GB deck.. lots of Scavenging Ooze, Grim Flayer, and Tarmogoyf there. UW boarded in Spreading Seas against me which was surprisingly effective, but I have a lot of backup colored mana sources. Revelry was big to get rid of it.
I'm seriously considering adding a couple Sacred Foundry and going for a truly greedy base with some Boros Charm instead of Searing Blaze main. That would give me some things out of the board I like, too, like Rest in Peace and Stony Silence, as well as Deflecting Palm. I'm not a huge fan of Lightning Helix maindeck in a list like that, 2 mana for 3 damage is not where I want to be (hence why I am considering adding Boros Charm over Searing Blaze)
Dredge, Burn, and Infect, because they have the same "feel" to me as Exarch Twin. I really dislike the "Eggs" style combo decks, or anything Storm related. Dredge and Infect just make me really happy to win with, while Burn is like a puzzle to unravel, the amount of decision making keeps me interested. Mill is something I've also played around with, I love anything that is a "gotcha" for cracking a fetch in Modern.
Tron because slamming giant powerhouse cards like Ugin (especially Ugin) and Karn are a lot of fun to me.
Control decks are just too durdly in general, though I'll have to give Jeskai Nahiri a try...though I generally loathe anything with counterspells.
Walking Ballista
Rishkar, Peema Renegade
Winding Constrictor
Aetherworks Marvel
Animation Module
Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
Orzhov Advokist
You're right about that, for sure, it just appealed to me in the sense that it had a theme (all permanents + Primal Surge was something I tried like heck to do in Standard) and I like commanders who can swing in themselves for a win as a backup plan, too, and Animar checks all the boxes. Maybe if I just took out Cloudstone Curio it could feel sane again.
In my Ghave deck, I still run Seedborn Muse, Academy Rector, and the Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion combo but I cut Tooth and Nail as well as Defense of the Heart. I still use Demonic Tutor, Eladamri's Call, and the above mentioned Rector as tutors, but unlike Animar, this deck's gameplan can definitely be slowed and stopped by interaction. Mike + Trike never see the field at the same time unless the game is just dragging on, and both creatures fit the overall theme of the commander anyways, so I allowed them to stay (+1/+1 counters and tokens being the themes)
Tooth and Nail was just too often an instant win. The same with Craterhoof Behemoth. If I played more blue decks, I sure wouldn't include Cyclonic Rift in any of them, either, because it's pretty anti-climatic as far as who wins after that.
You definitely want token producers that are reusable or just provide a HUGE number all at once. If they're only bringing in 2-3 tokens, it's not really worth it unless the card has some secondary effect (Catacomb Sifter, for instance)
As for the +1/+1 counters, anything that provides them passively is a HUGE. That includes the Juniper Order Ranger - he's absolutely one of the most powerful cards in my list. Also try Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest and Bloodspore Thrinax, Corpsejack Menace.....those guys are all insane for me.
However, the single most powerful card in the deck for me has been Seedborn Muse. When you can't have the four armed Kruphix guy, this is absolutely the next best thing. Ghave is incredibly mana hungry and having this lets you play on your opponents' turns.
You're going to want sac outlets besides Ghave. Ghave costs mana to sacrifice things. Having a FREE sacrifice outlet is a huge deal, I've found. I run a few :
Carrion Feeder - sac outlet that gives you more +1/+1 counters to play with
Smothering Abomination - drawing cards is good
Sadistic Hypnotist - very very mean but if you're looking to win...
Ashnod's Altar
Phyrexian Altar
Even if Artifact hate is rampant, just wait until you can set up a big turn with these.
You're going to want a lot more ramp if you're playing non- combo. Since artifacts are out, I'll suggest :
Farseek
Wood Elves
Skyshroud Claim
Nature's Lore
all of which can be used to fetch up a dual land. Three Visits as well if you can find one.
Don't forget Murmuring Bosk, the forgotten tri-land!
If you REALLY want to go non-combo, just take out Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. He enables a ton of "oops I win" things. I run him, with Triskelion, but only as a means to end an overlong game.
You might want to look at the Blood Artist family as a win-con on a stalled board :
Blood Artist
Falkenrath Noble
Zulaport Cutthroat
last, but not least, Illusionist's Bracers is a really, really good doubler.
Things from your list I'd consider cutting :
These are cards I was talking about earlier. They just don't bring enough tokens to justify the cost. Grave Titan and Avenger of Zendikar are exceptions to this rule, but the rest of these guys just belong in something like Roon that blinks them over and over. I also find Acidic Slime a bit weak, your mileage may vary, though.
Here's my list for comparison, feel free to post in my thread as well! http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/572392-ghave-invest-in-some-dice
Kozilek, the Great Distortion
World Breaker
I'm going over these guys in my mind and I'm just not sure any of them are worth dropping down from 3-4 Ulamog and 3-4 Ugin for. Endbringer is pretty tricksy, but very, very grindy, is it a viable substitute for an Ulamog? Kozilek just seems... odd, I'm not sure ramp wants him. World Breaker has possibilities, maybe a sideboard card? Or as part of a ramp / LD strategy along with Crumble to Dust and Oblivion Sower?
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - just feels... slow.
Phyrexian Arena - may not be needed with the addition of Smothering Abomination.
Thinking about swapping out the painlands for the battle lands just because I can search them up with the "search a forest" cards, as well as Farseek.
Cards I'm considering right now :
Martial Coup - Could be a good token producer that leaves me with a board after a wrath, and the deck ramps hard as it is.
Secure the Wastes - cheaper , faster Coup without the Wrath.
Garruk, Apex Predator - token producer, win-con, life gain, control... the list is already top heavy but he might warrant inclusion.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor - better tokens than his other self.
Falkenrath Noble - removed him for Zulaport, but maybe a 3rd effect like this is needed?
Mycoloth - seems slow but powerful, has been recommended to me. Still not dropped 5$ on one though.
Phyrexian Reclamation - removed it for various other things, but this is solid utility.