If you want to remove Signets because they're too powerful for a low-power environment, than the Borderposts can be passable options. But they're nowhere near as good. They basic land restriction hurts decks that want to be splashing the artifact for fixing, entering tapped is a bummer, not bridging the critical 2->4 gap is a big drawback ...but the worst is the potential tempo blowout you suffer if an early Borderpost is dealt with. So unless you're trying to intentionally lower the powerlevel of your manafacts, I'd pass on them altogether. But if that was the case, removing all of them just makes more sense, IMO.
Allied Talisman are arguably better than Signets in a lot of cases, but still diversify the mana rock suite if that's what you're aiming to do.
For the most part I agree with you. The signets are better mana fixers than the borderposts, but the question I tired to pose is whether or not this change is better for the play-ability of the cube. I used to run all 10 signets, and it felt like it killed green's color identity and overpowered the control, tinker, and welder archetypes. I felt like the cut from 10 to 5 signets gave the right consistency to the cube and preserved the green color identity. However by doing so I imbalanced the fixing, so therefore the bps.
Now however I am thinking of changing the 2 half cycles to a singleton guild specific fixing. For example, I could include the blue signets and red fast lands.
So I have looked around and no one seems to be discussing the viability of boderposts in non-pauper lists. I am currently running the enemy cycle of signets along with the allied cycle of borderposts and it has been working out for me in my limited testing. Here is my argument/reasoning:
Enemy Signets:
In my cube, the most important color for artifact fixing is blue. This inherently makes blue signets more powerful. However control decks in cube often have to go into 2, 3 or even 4 colors to be truly powerful and effective. This makes the other signets worth considering for their off color cards (non-blue) they play. In my experience American, Bug, Esper, and Grixis are the four big three color combinations for control in cube. This means that the golgari, boros, orzhov, and rakdos signets are all worth considering in a control deck, not just the blue ones. That means in a cube, the golgari, rakdos, boros, simic, izzet, dimir, orzhov, and azorius signets are all worth considering as ramp/fixing in both blue control and midrange. This is interesting because this list includes ALL of the enemy signets, but leaves out two of the allied signets.
Allied Borderposts:
Unlike the signets, borderposts (bp) will probably not be powering out a T3 wrath, however they do open up a few doors that most cubes only knock on. First off, the strategies that want borderposts the most are the Wildfire, and Armageddon strategies. These strategies aren't looking to ramp out these spells quickly, but rather get the most value for them when they resolve. This makes the red and white bp the most essential and versatile of the cycle. The gruul and azorius bp in particular are the best since they directly facilitate the color pair that wants them the most. The off white and red bp's are also viable for the same reason their on color counterparts are. Dimir, selesnya, and rakdos offer a wide range of use in their particular archtype, and, unlike signets, can be played on turn 1 as a land, or later if they would miss a land drop. The blue and red posts also function as a prowess enabler since their ability to bounce a land and pay 1 is worded as an alternate casting cost, they do in fact go on the stack and trigger prowess. In my experience, lands that trigger prowess are pretty good.
Why the Split Cycle:
The full cycle of signets goes to far in enabling an oppressive control deck. Since the best signets are in allied colors, I have increased their cost by 1, but also given them more versatility as a functioning land. This slows the control deck down a little (which helps out my struggling aggro archtype), but not to the point where it is unplayable. The change has also made the tinker strategy more interesting because tinker now has a plethora of 1 drop artifacts to throw away when needed.
Overall I think this change is for the better, but I want to know what you guys think. Is this a good idea? I have some testing, but most of what I have said is only from extrapolation, so any feedback would be helpful.
Consider which color pairs need fixing the most. Dimir Control usually has time to draw out of bad mana, so it's not as essential as fixing for Orzhov, where everything has really heavy color requirements.
I'm confidant you don't need all 10 signets. When's the last time someone drafted R/W control?
RW control is called wildfire. Also american control with brago and friends, but this thread pre-dates that.
Earlier you posted that this deck could go either faster or slower depending on preference, and you chose to make it faster. I have played Prossh for a while now and I have found that trying to race a table of 4 is impossible (for me at least), especially if all 4 of the decks are fine tuned to the extreme. There are to many counter-spells, removal and taxing effects to make it there on turns 2-3. Don't get me wrong you have a fine concept with the protection package, every acceleration, and the best win conditions for your purpose, and you will win a fair amount of games with that speed. But you said it yourself that you scoop to relevant removal.
That being said I think there is a way to fix this. You can add in Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Zealous Conscripts as an alternative win condition. The best part is that they would also help with the Food Chain (FC) combo. If the FC combo stretches out to turn 4 or later both Kiki and conscripts can generate a lot of mana by themselves with zealous netting X+1 where X is the highest CMC creature on the table and Kiki netting X+1 where X is the highest cmc of creatures you control, even more if that creature makes mana.
The big problem with this however is that they will most likely not help in those games where you are looking to win turn 3 or earlier as they are both CMC 5. That being said I think the risk of this is worth having an alternative win condition in the deck itself.
There are more options to diversify the deck, but I believe this to be the best way to add in the extra resiliency that you need.
(other options include: Melira Pod chain, Reanimation package, Earthcraft, and Instakill cards like Berserk)
For the most part I agree with you. The signets are better mana fixers than the borderposts, but the question I tired to pose is whether or not this change is better for the play-ability of the cube. I used to run all 10 signets, and it felt like it killed green's color identity and overpowered the control, tinker, and welder archetypes. I felt like the cut from 10 to 5 signets gave the right consistency to the cube and preserved the green color identity. However by doing so I imbalanced the fixing, so therefore the bps.
Now however I am thinking of changing the 2 half cycles to a singleton guild specific fixing. For example, I could include the blue signets and red fast lands.
Enemy Signets:
In my cube, the most important color for artifact fixing is blue. This inherently makes blue signets more powerful. However control decks in cube often have to go into 2, 3 or even 4 colors to be truly powerful and effective. This makes the other signets worth considering for their off color cards (non-blue) they play. In my experience American, Bug, Esper, and Grixis are the four big three color combinations for control in cube. This means that the golgari, boros, orzhov, and rakdos signets are all worth considering in a control deck, not just the blue ones. That means in a cube, the golgari, rakdos, boros, simic, izzet, dimir, orzhov, and azorius signets are all worth considering as ramp/fixing in both blue control and midrange. This is interesting because this list includes ALL of the enemy signets, but leaves out two of the allied signets.
Allied Borderposts:
Unlike the signets, borderposts (bp) will probably not be powering out a T3 wrath, however they do open up a few doors that most cubes only knock on. First off, the strategies that want borderposts the most are the Wildfire, and Armageddon strategies. These strategies aren't looking to ramp out these spells quickly, but rather get the most value for them when they resolve. This makes the red and white bp the most essential and versatile of the cycle. The gruul and azorius bp in particular are the best since they directly facilitate the color pair that wants them the most. The off white and red bp's are also viable for the same reason their on color counterparts are. Dimir, selesnya, and rakdos offer a wide range of use in their particular archtype, and, unlike signets, can be played on turn 1 as a land, or later if they would miss a land drop. The blue and red posts also function as a prowess enabler since their ability to bounce a land and pay 1 is worded as an alternate casting cost, they do in fact go on the stack and trigger prowess. In my experience, lands that trigger prowess are pretty good.
Why the Split Cycle:
The full cycle of signets goes to far in enabling an oppressive control deck. Since the best signets are in allied colors, I have increased their cost by 1, but also given them more versatility as a functioning land. This slows the control deck down a little (which helps out my struggling aggro archtype), but not to the point where it is unplayable. The change has also made the tinker strategy more interesting because tinker now has a plethora of 1 drop artifacts to throw away when needed.
Overall I think this change is for the better, but I want to know what you guys think. Is this a good idea? I have some testing, but most of what I have said is only from extrapolation, so any feedback would be helpful.
Here is a link to my cube.
RW control is called wildfire. Also american control with brago and friends, but this thread pre-dates that.
That being said I think there is a way to fix this. You can add in Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Zealous Conscripts as an alternative win condition. The best part is that they would also help with the Food Chain (FC) combo. If the FC combo stretches out to turn 4 or later both Kiki and conscripts can generate a lot of mana by themselves with zealous netting X+1 where X is the highest CMC creature on the table and Kiki netting X+1 where X is the highest cmc of creatures you control, even more if that creature makes mana.
The big problem with this however is that they will most likely not help in those games where you are looking to win turn 3 or earlier as they are both CMC 5. That being said I think the risk of this is worth having an alternative win condition in the deck itself.
To sum it up here are the changes I suggest:
Akki Rockspeaker to Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Quirion Sentinel to Zealous Conscripts
There are more options to diversify the deck, but I believe this to be the best way to add in the extra resiliency that you need.
(other options include: Melira Pod chain, Reanimation package, Earthcraft, and Instakill cards like Berserk)