MTG Salvation

Exactly what the discussion has been about, if Essential Masters were to reprint Vindicate making it modern legal. A good thing. Read.

Quote from user_84544 »

Remand vs mana leak, Maindeck discard spells, going hard-control, etc. All of these questions have been discussed many times in this thread already, guys.

Yes, but at different times, pre-ban, and metas change. Sometimes discard is better than control is better than tempo etc. So a discussion on this 6 months ago doesn't necessarily apply now. And people don't scroll and read through dozens of pages these days.

My main deck since the twin ban and Eldrazi swarm has been Abzan Company. I played 3 Voice in there for months, but found elemental tokens never got that big. Most people in the CoCo forums are dropping Voice. Just not that good anymore in CoCo in the Eldrazi World ... There are better cards in Abzan.

I moved my voice cards to a BWg Tokens build. To give typical BW tokens Abrupt Decay, Voice, Pendelhaven. The elemental tokens are huge compared to CoCo because tokens can create a wider board. Love them.

I've never been convinced why to go from mono white Soul Sisters. I've seen attempts at green, black, red splash. They don't stick. There is too much synergy in sisters, which is usually why it's success is relatively narrow as metas change. Monocolored decks usually have a big hole another color helps cover, but some themes are so focused that as you spread out you actually weaken the deck. Monogreen Stompy, or Green Nykthos Devotion are examples. I believe SS another. Whats good in theory often doesn't work in the real world .. On paper not MTGO. But right now, I think Soul Sisters has a good time. Certainly keep trying things.

With that and having used Voice in the right context, I don't think it helps sisters. There are better choices that fit in or support the sisters win condition. Secure the wastes and return to the ranks package is better than voice for that. Plus I don't find that my sisters board stays very wide. The creatures are dealt with quickly, keeping the elemental tokens small. Voice itself is not as powerful or scary as Grand Abolisher in this deck. It's just the sheer amount of life we gain, surviving with chump blockers and flying over some spirit pecks that over time wins for us.

Just my initial thoughts Sans testing.

Here's what I'm going to try this FNM. This Modern Sunday I played Abzan Company. Finished middle of the pack as people are ready for CoCo right now. There is lots of burn in my local meta. Eldrazi really hasn't shown up as most here are expecting a ban and are asking why invest money, especially since most have 2-3 decks that are their preferred. Some merfolk, of course jund/junk and affinity. In my meta I think Soul Sisters could be well placed.


Champ and Crusader are SB. They are usually not really bad to MD, but never know their true worth G1. Wrath I have one of main in case things get out of hand. Other SB should be straightforward. Can always second guess those.

I've wondered why no love for Hero of Bladehold? Loved her in Tokens, but since I've shifted things there, she seems to make good sense here too. Out of bolt range, popping out hasted tokens everytime she attacks, she's white so with an Honor of the Pure out she's 4/5. Can get her out with a Windbrisk. After all, you don't need Windbrisk if you are only trying to get 1W creatures out. You need it for planeswalkers, 4 CMC, Archangel. And as soon as she attacks she activates your Windbrisk.

Elspeth Knight Errant I may want 2 of. Can fling your pumped up soul sister over things, or just create more tokens gaining life. I'm trying Kytheon just as a test. Just have the one, and may replace for an extra Elspeth, but someone a ways back said he was great in this deck.

In playtesting at home Leonin and Abolisher main seem to be really nasty and demand removal or counter or can really hurt a variety of decks. Slow down fetch lands, tron etc.

As for protection. Brave the Elements was the go to, but with colorless out there, may not be enough. I used to use Rebuff the Wicked, which is good. saves Honor of the Pure, Elspeth or Windbrisk with something under it from a Motlen Rain. Going to try Cloudshift because when the creature you are trying to save comes back in, if it was to avoid a targeted removal or bolt, you get life triggers.

Every time I come back to Soul Sisters it seems I trim Rangers, Martyrs, and eventually Serra Ascendants. Even with Ranger, Martyrs, and Proc it seems 30 life unless you get a god hand is tough to keep Serra big. Too many ways to keep us under 30 life, especially in a meta where you are scared enough to even have 1 life and consider Worship. I had gone down to 2 of Serra prior to this decklist, and she could go back in if Kytheon isn't great or Hero of Bladehold doesn't seem to fit as well as I envision.

Wilt leaf and Creakwood Liege both offer something, and worth testing. Personally I'll stick with planeswalkers in my 4 slot. Auriok Champion remains on the fence depending on meta, but I don't know where else I'd cut. She's hard to remove by burn etc, and we do put creatures out. Depending how the shift is I could see moving her SB or out depending. I'm going to try to get 1-2 Abrupt Decay into testing. Probably 3 IoK and 3 path to allow decay in. See how that goes thus weekend.

I think most are playing Qasali and or Rec Sage to deal with sideboard hate that we may target with Decay. You can Coco or Chord them out when needed, while you can't decay. Great to top deck it when needed or mulligan to have it in opening hand, but personally I'd rather have the creatures. Earlier we had a Path vs Decay debate. At that time most were supporting decay over path, with a 2/1 split usually. Post ban, path seems more valuable and many have gone to 3 path to ensure draw. A 2/1 path-decay split seems defensible.

One top 8 finish from November. Yup. Good evidence of this being a Tier 1 deck by turning into a quasi land destruction deck. Next you'll be using summer MTGO dailies for evidence of how to handle the new meta. /sarcasm. But you know best. Just tell us which decklist to play. I'm going to burn I think until CoCo sorts itself out.

The NFL should ban Tom Brady and Gronk because they single handedly win too many games and have too many super bowl rings ...and beat my Chiefs!

The NHL should ban the trap defense because it is proven to decrease goal scoring and everyone uses it.

Sarcasm aside, there were statements a couple pages back that we "just accept the ban and move on" and that "we have no control over whatever happens in the meta."

But that's exactly the point that's infuriating players, that we create the archetypes using the tools provided by WotC and can adapt over time to the meta. We vest time, money, discussion into our decks and countering changes in others. But that is an illusion, that became evident to the players Friday. WotC can massively change the meta, and economy, over night ... which does, incidentally, support the power of the two banned cards. There are no checks and balances from the players nor preparation. Don't talk about the "the writing was on the wall." Put the writing on the wall with a date far enough in the future for prepartion, not six months after a reprint of a card that was well known for its power well before. Coincidental, maybe as sets aren't made overnight, but just adds to the suspicion and seeming arbitrariness.

Another analogy, sorry, but bear with me. The NHL has been discussing goal scoring being way down and doing something like expanding the net, or enforcing goalies to have smaller pads and tighter uniforms. At least in that process and discussion the players have a direct say through the NHLPA players union. Rather than recognizing natural ebb and flow and evolution of the game (e.g. players are bigger than in Gretzky's time) artificially enforcing something doesn't happen overnight ... although smacking players in the face with your stick was rightfully banned.

Sorry if you don't like sports analogies! Lol. However, with pro tour and tournaments, magic has taken strides to be more professional, sporting, and "not just any old game." That requires the contributions of players ... and of referees who we love to hate on but strive to protect the fairness in the game.

Where on this continuum of fairness twin and bloom were is debated, and should have been, but the powerlessness of players and suddenness is what's causing ire. At least the NFL had a year's notice and off-season to prepare and adapt their play books for the change in the after td conversion. Perhaps just some more lead time than one week (announce January 18, in effect Jan 22) would soften the blow and reaction. At least in a "non rotating format." At least we have ample warning and time before things leave standard, and players seem fine with that.

Are Twin and Bloom more like hitting someone in the face with your stick which was banned quickly ... or like the moving of the after point conversion further out to decrease the automatic after point and encourage strategy for the 2 point conversion which had notice and preparation by players. Most of us are thinking more like the latter I think for twin, maybe more the prior for bloom.

I'm done venting. My twin deck has been reconfigured.

Quote from Xarnithru »

What decks were being pushed out of the metagame by Twin (and where can we expect a resurgence)? Jeskai Control? UR Delver?

Infect and Grixis were pushed out of Tier 1 by UR Twin and Bloom. Infect should slide right back up.

CoCo as a combo deck with lots of flexibility was faring pretty well and should see a fairer game in a wide open meta.

Merfolk and CoCo Elves aren't going away anytime soon.

Grixis Twin players (I was one, sigh) are flooding the Grixis Control forums. We were a pretty flexible and stable deck, more midrange than tempo which was not as well placed until this ban ... tempo Twin beat us. Grixis Twin didn't go all in combo anyway, trying for more flexibility and midrange, usually 5 tappers and 3 twin, boarding them out for things like Tasigur etc G2. Young Pyromancer is in vogue in that forum, along with PKN. Basically I took out my 4 Exarchs, 3 Twin, and 1 Pestermite, and put in 1 Angler, 3 Young Pyromancer, an extra K-Command, 2 Thought Scour, and a Mana Leak and feel pretty good to go next FNM with UR Twin and Bloom out of the way. Also left some space SB for Crumble to Dust/Fulminator/Molten Rains in my Grixis and Burn decks.

I have played BW Tokens, but that's been sitting for a while, but there is a resurgence of hope in the Tokens forum as well, even in the last few weeks before the ban. Probably moreso than Soul Sisters (which is a deck that continues to sit on my shelf). Auriok Champion, for example, is probably not as well placed as Kor Firewalker now. Opposite was true yesterday.

I'll probably play Naya Burn as my main, and continue to playtest CoCo, BWg Tokens (adding Beast Within, Pendelhaven, Voice of Resurgence, Decay), and Grixis Control until the meta shifts and stabilizes.

Well, you can't just react to changes in meta, you still need to be predictive and proactive to figure out what to bring to the next fnm with no Twin and Bloom. But, tokens started off as a pretty flexible deck for an unknown meta I guess.

Oh if only it worked that way. Would be sweet. Also removing any existing poison. mmmm

Coming out of the daydream, concerning split, I used to be on the 3/1 side, but I think after getting to know the deck better that 2/2 and 2/1 are the best numbers.

I think if you are heavier combo, then 2/2 makes the most sense due to Anafenze+Melira infinite bolster and Redcap combo without sac outlet. If you are more of a beatdown value plan, then 2/1 makes the most sense, as Melira is good as a toolbox option vs Infect and Affinity, while diminishing the drawback of Legendary on Anafenza.

3/1 is probably inferior to either of the other options. You'll run into Legendary and mana issues a lot more. The upped count implies heavier combo, but you diminish your chances of certain combinations. And there are better utility and value options to fill the 3rd Anafenza slot if you were pushing the value direction.