Hi guys, I do not know if it is the right place to talk about this, but I am really intersting to sleeve up the deck (even with the recent ban), but I am a little scared of a futur ban, is it realistic or just me? Thanks !
PS: Awesome primer !
I suspect Grave Troll was sufficient. With the other ban hitting such decks as Infect, I anticipate a little surge in big mana. More land destroy will be in SB hopefully hitting anti-GY hate. Puts us in our place, possibly Tier 2, but not warranting more bans for months. pending future set releases. WotC is on the record as not playtesting modern for standard releases.
I've crushed some local events with a 19 land version I believe threads the needle as best we can. I'll give it one more week of testing with a win-a- sol ring next weekend. Deck has been bonkers vs both midrange and linear aggro, and good enough vs combo, though I miss my Monkeys there (and against lingering souls, which monkey scoffs at). The only games I've lost are ones where I got screwed on lands, or got greedy and dropped the shields vs Veil. Detailed report next week, but here's the list for reference..
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:13
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Young Pyromancer
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
One reason Push is good, is that fitting cut in was dangerous and taxed the yard. While you want a scour early, it's bad as top deck when the game gets going. I think 3 scour is good. Likely it's in your opening hand, yet not overly burning cards. We aren't dredge after all. I've made the 4th scour a telling time.
For all the people using tireless tracker how do you feel about two congregation at dawn MB?
I was thinking EoT put missing pieces of the combo on top,draw on draw step for one,sac clue,draw,play both.
Well, or the curve, you might play this turn 2 if enough copies (what do you take out??). That means you may draw your combo on turn 5. Is that later than you can chord for it? T5 in a fishbowl is pretty late in modern.
I've always felt YP to be a bit awkward without GP. YP with a counterspells feels very awkward. I have YP out but I can't generate value until you cast a spell seems bad.
I can try to ask Corey more when I see him, since he is fairly local. The problem is that whereas people hear my "I'm doing okay" at FNM at 4-1, Corey will say "I'm doing okay" at a Grand Prix at 9-0 or 8-1. He can be overly critical of himself, while he has made fine decisions and amazing plays.
I've seen a downtick in Titanshift to nearly 1%, while Breach has stayed somewhat strong at 3.5%. Tron can be dodged. Dredge and Bant won't be dodged, but the matchups are not unwinnable. Grixis Control has some tools to win (Surgical Extraction and ScM), so it's possible that his outplaying his opponents and a bit of luck got him
Strong decks historically see lots of play. Grixis is not a strong deck in today's meta at all. The people who play it are people who are passionately (or stubbornly) tied to those colors and that kind of gameplay. Nobody is playing and expecting to win events (which Cory has said himself in interviews).
And yet the results based on recent success with the deck says otherwise. The deck is atleast tier 2 powerlevel wise before fatal push's printing.
I firmly hope that Grixis can get better. But we'll definitely have to see how the meta shakes out with seeing the downgrade of several fast creature decks that served as positive matchups for Grixis Control. And while I love Fatal Push, the problem with the card is that it really doesn't do anything against the deck's worst matchups (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut); it only really makes the good/borderline matchups slightly better. And although I've been playing Delver most of the time the past year, losing Gitaxian Probe hurts the aggressive Pyromancer builds a lot. I've got everything played in Grixis Control ready to be sleeved and played, but nothing tells me it's a smart decision to play if my goal is winning. I play the deck because it's fun, not because it's good. Closing speed and win conditions are still a huge hurdle the deck has to overcome, and that's assuming your answers line up enough to get to the mid and late game. It will be especially difficult against the predicted influx of big mana decks (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut).
Many of us Gruxis Delvers are at 2 YP max, and had taken out the Probes anyway. Many of us were at 3-4 Terminate and a cut or dismember. Most of us will do a 2-2 Terminate/Push split with Cryptic coming back in. We may have time now for the 3U/4CMC. But, I'm probably going back to Boros Burn or Abzan Company for a while.
Remand vs mana leak, Maindeck discard spells, going hard-control, etc. All of these questions have been discussed many times in this thread already, guys.
Yes, but at different times, pre-ban, and metas change. Sometimes discard is better than control is better than tempo etc. So a discussion on this 6 months ago doesn't necessarily apply now. And people don't scroll and read through dozens of pages these days.
Blood mooning a burn player is SUPER fun, i tell ya. Nothing beats stabilizing at 2 life and beating in the air for 3 while Young pyro & co hold the fort. Opponent dies slowly and painfully, then shows you a hand of Boros Charm, Boros Charm, Atarka's Command, Path to Exile. Awwwww.
Honestly not sure who you played with. Any good burn player plays a regular land for every color, and should only need one red and one of each splash to play from turn 3 on. I play a mardu burn deck as one of my other decks, and have Blood Moon in the side. Could do the same with Naya Burn, if the meta was right and did so during the Eldrazi Winter.
Turning off our graveyard hurts. Delve is hurt, thought scour is just draw, snappy and k command are less effective. I'm also hurt by well timed dispels it seems.
24 players at modern FNM at the LGS tonight. Went 2-2.
GR Tron (2-1)
He wins game one getting tron online. Karn comes down, I'm okay for a while, then Ugin hits the board. Eventually ults Ugin I counter the first Ulamog, but his on cast effect hurts. A second Ulamog hits a couple turns later after Ugin ults. I was actually impressed I held on as long as I did. Board in Dreadbore, Fulminator Mage, Countersquall, Collective Brutality (ancient stirrings). Fulminator Mage is an all-star with K-Commmand, and Dreadbore deals with Karn. He can't get tron online eventually Delver just wins game 1 and 2.
Infect (0-2)
I could not get setup to deal with Inkmoth Nexus getting Mutagenic Growth, Might of Old Krosa. Vines of Vastwood prevents Terminates etc. Board in Dispel, Countersquall, Fulminator Mage, Dreadbore. Blighted Agent takes me out game 2 and 3 pretty quick.
Tezzeret Control (2-0).
He mulligans to 4 game 1. I don't even learn what he's on so don't board. G2 he never really gets setup either and other than seeing Darksteel Citadel I'm still not sure what he's on. We have time so play non-boarded a couple games where he does get setup, or I mulligan, and he's able to go off with Tezzeret both games.
Jund (0-2)
New person to the store, or at least since I had last been there, but he knows his stuff and is playing with a judge playmat. Lily is just nasty. I wish I played Inquisition for that. He kills me off with Raging Ravine. I put in Fulminator Mage, Countersquall, Dreadbore. I have to mulligan to 4 for no lands. He gets Bob out early, and is able to get 2 Goyfs and Lily on board. I just can't seem to get what I need fast enough, and he AD's or uses Lily to control the board and force things out of my limited hand. Just the way it goes sometimes.
K-Command continues to be good. I want a second Fulminator. With K-Command there are many options. I don't like Spell Snare. Everytime I play it I wish it was "2 or less converted mana cost" as opposed to exactly 2. So many times I wished I could Dispel a 1 CMC instead. I think MB Countersquall and Dispel are good. Mana Leak is fine. Didn't see Dredge or CoCo today, so maybe I go Rakdos Charm instead of Crypt Incursion. Will probably go 4 Terminate main and move the Dreadbores to side.
I've seen a lot of discussion about adding Path etc. In the format,more removal is good right now. However I'm also in support of 28 creatures for consistency with 1 path, Tidehollows, and 1 ad SB. Sometimes it's better to just hope for top deck G2-3. I've never been happy with Fiend Hunter, but keep 2 Big Game Hunter side. Anything I'm struggling with is something like Tasigur, Gurmag, Siege Rhino, a Goyf or Scooze getting too big. Friend Hunter is just too temporary a solution as a 1/3. Path is whiffed and not turntable when you need it.
Having done Boros and Naya Burn, currently I'm a Mardu Burn fan. Bump in the Night, Dreadbore, K Command, Rain of Gores (SB) make a difference in my meta. Haven't tried Jund yet.
This is my feeling. Lilly is fine, doesn't really, really hurt the deck, but isn't worth the cost. We have other creatures, etc that can keep us in game. She's better in Standard. If you play black in Standard, you just about have to use her.
Do we play enough creatures (as control) to not whiff with Liliana Last Hope? I don't think she's bad in this deck, but I don't know that she's necessary.
It's mostly in MTGO, we'll see what it does in paper at the GPTs coming up. I'm thinking people aren't going to jump off their main decks to get in on it. It's just that graveyard hate wasn't a big thing to carry until recently and people are jumping on the band wagon. While we can plan for the hate, we can be shut down with just a couple cards, unlike Twin, Bloom, or Eldrazi were. (And I came off Twin to Grixis and Abzan CoCo after the ban). My daughter was actually the Dredgevine and Zoo fan. We switched her deck to Dredge as it seems more consistent.
I suspect Grave Troll was sufficient. With the other ban hitting such decks as Infect, I anticipate a little surge in big mana. More land destroy will be in SB hopefully hitting anti-GY hate. Puts us in our place, possibly Tier 2, but not warranting more bans for months. pending future set releases. WotC is on the record as not playtesting modern for standard releases.
Plus they have more issues in Legacy to solve.
One reason Push is good, is that fitting cut in was dangerous and taxed the yard. While you want a scour early, it's bad as top deck when the game gets going. I think 3 scour is good. Likely it's in your opening hand, yet not overly burning cards. We aren't dredge after all. I've made the 4th scour a telling time.
Well, or the curve, you might play this turn 2 if enough copies (what do you take out??). That means you may draw your combo on turn 5. Is that later than you can chord for it? T5 in a fishbowl is pretty late in modern.
SB maybe. Gives you an extra turn maybe against Affinity, CoCo, etc.
Many of us Gruxis Delvers are at 2 YP max, and had taken out the Probes anyway. Many of us were at 3-4 Terminate and a cut or dismember. Most of us will do a 2-2 Terminate/Push split with Cryptic coming back in. We may have time now for the 3U/4CMC. But, I'm probably going back to Boros Burn or Abzan Company for a while.
Yes, but at different times, pre-ban, and metas change. Sometimes discard is better than control is better than tempo etc. So a discussion on this 6 months ago doesn't necessarily apply now. And people don't scroll and read through dozens of pages these days.
Honestly not sure who you played with. Any good burn player plays a regular land for every color, and should only need one red and one of each splash to play from turn 3 on. I play a mardu burn deck as one of my other decks, and have Blood Moon in the side. Could do the same with Naya Burn, if the meta was right and did so during the Eldrazi Winter.
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Spells
1 Dreadbore
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
1 Remand
2 Mana Leak
3 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Vampiric Link
2 Crypt Incursion
1 Dispel
1 Countersquall
2 Collective Brutality
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Dreadbore
24 players at modern FNM at the LGS tonight. Went 2-2.
GR Tron (2-1)
He wins game one getting tron online. Karn comes down, I'm okay for a while, then Ugin hits the board. Eventually ults Ugin I counter the first Ulamog, but his on cast effect hurts. A second Ulamog hits a couple turns later after Ugin ults. I was actually impressed I held on as long as I did. Board in Dreadbore, Fulminator Mage, Countersquall, Collective Brutality (ancient stirrings). Fulminator Mage is an all-star with K-Commmand, and Dreadbore deals with Karn. He can't get tron online eventually Delver just wins game 1 and 2.
Infect (0-2)
I could not get setup to deal with Inkmoth Nexus getting Mutagenic Growth, Might of Old Krosa. Vines of Vastwood prevents Terminates etc. Board in Dispel, Countersquall, Fulminator Mage, Dreadbore. Blighted Agent takes me out game 2 and 3 pretty quick.
Tezzeret Control (2-0).
He mulligans to 4 game 1. I don't even learn what he's on so don't board. G2 he never really gets setup either and other than seeing Darksteel Citadel I'm still not sure what he's on. We have time so play non-boarded a couple games where he does get setup, or I mulligan, and he's able to go off with Tezzeret both games.
Jund (0-2)
New person to the store, or at least since I had last been there, but he knows his stuff and is playing with a judge playmat. Lily is just nasty. I wish I played Inquisition for that. He kills me off with Raging Ravine. I put in Fulminator Mage, Countersquall, Dreadbore. I have to mulligan to 4 for no lands. He gets Bob out early, and is able to get 2 Goyfs and Lily on board. I just can't seem to get what I need fast enough, and he AD's or uses Lily to control the board and force things out of my limited hand. Just the way it goes sometimes.
K-Command continues to be good. I want a second Fulminator. With K-Command there are many options. I don't like Spell Snare. Everytime I play it I wish it was "2 or less converted mana cost" as opposed to exactly 2. So many times I wished I could Dispel a 1 CMC instead. I think MB Countersquall and Dispel are good. Mana Leak is fine. Didn't see Dredge or CoCo today, so maybe I go Rakdos Charm instead of Crypt Incursion. Will probably go 4 Terminate main and move the Dreadbores to side.