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  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    UW control should not be in a position to (always) win vs Tron. My problem is multiple cards slotted right into the already best deck in Modern under London Mulligan. Karn, TGC was a mistake we will have to deal with in the future, because no, probably he is not bannable.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Tron doesn't run world breaker anymore, that's one of the cuts for new Karn. Only cast trigger to worry about is 1-2 ulamog.


    The problem becomes bigger though, if you think you (as a blue mage) must counter so many more threats nowadays(like chalice, grid that were mentioned little bit earlier, karns, etc), or disrupt so many more things.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Quote from mapccu »
    Quote from Simto »
    Quote from ElectricEye »
    So Tron is now the top deck in the meta, just got Karn the Great Creator, gets even more powerful with the London Mulligan which will be implemented soon, and makes for miserable game play.

    Can we finally start talking about how the Urzatron lands may be too strong in a format without wasteland?

    Modern Horizons can change this, true. But, as weve seen, even all the recent tron hate printed lately has done very little


    Meta will adapt to be more aggressive towards Tron. Lots of tron hate cards out there, just swap some in instead of banning stuff when it's popular. There's always an ebb and flow and Modern Horizons will make almost definitely make a big change to that.


    I agree, I'm not sure tron is really all that oppressive right now. It's consistent and strong with the new mulligan rule sure, but it's beatable. cermonious rejection is a great safety valve that can and will show up in Uxx control, grixis shadow, tempo decks, etc to combat it and eat up that meta share.

    It only asks 4 sideboard slots and maybe some number of snapcaster mage and you're highly favored against them as you just answer the 10-11 threats they have total.

    I'd imagine this is the route we go if tron starts to migrate towards a very high % of the meta.

    In fact if you can squeeze in an appropriate amount of rejections and grave/spell hate for Phoenix you're going to be covering nearly 1/5th of your matches in some of the modern events we've seen. Grave hate also spills over to dredge.

    Phoenix can run rejection if it needs it and it has the velocity to hit it by t3 if it needs to even on the draw.

    I just can't see tron eating up too much meta if it's really that dominate. It loses horribly on the stack.


    Is it the same stack that runs Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger, world breaker and sanctum of ugin activations? Or the same stack that now gets to play 10 more sb cards and you have to counter literally as threats as it had, only many more?

    That said, I believe Tron is stronger than it was. One buff in Blast Zone is nice in a Tier 1 deck, one more in London mulligan helping the deck is too much. All of the above + Karn and a myriad other cards to help the deck are too much. It is something that should never have happened. I don't think it's bannable, but hell, why help a Tier 1 deck (the best one) with so many things???

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    I have been super excited by War's impact on Modern. So much walkers, UW superfriend decks running so hot in MOCS, cards like finale of promise in phoenix, Karn being run in Mono red prison, Tron, eldrazi, amulet, mono white, UR versions, blast zone is literally in most reactive decks, other walkers in other decks (like dovin, saheeli), dovin's veto, etc.

    There is great innovation in Modern at the moment and I love it. The format seems to be heading into a great direction. Also, an open question is: what UW version is the best right now? Grin
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    What? We just had a Humans vs Affinity pro tour final. We just had Humans as one of the best decks(and 3 copies into the top 8 and no mention at all?), UWx Control is gaining traction because of the new cards and MH is probably going to boost most of the fair decks.

    Colt, I know you just come in here to speak about a new format or make frontier look glorious; but let's get real.

    Modern is going to be the premier non-rotating format for many years to come and I predict there is going to be a Modern Horizons 2, because MH is probably going to be a huuuuge success.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    There is nothing to fix about this meta. Make it better? Sure. I don't see any major issues, so even if you don't change anything, it seems great.
    Does London mulligan change the picture and neoform or Tron look possible ban candidates? Maybe yes, maybe not. But that's about it.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    It's not the same, for various reasons. SFM should be tested and unbanned, nobody said we are afraid of her. It's just that statements like "she is useless" are totally off the mark. JTMS was a huge success and it's heavily played; Expect SFM to be played in most midrange shells and be a huge success when and if unbanned. You can also expect Esper to be a true tier 1 deck (Abzan probably also) that will probably be top 8'ing many events, and many other shells to be just viable.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    I am certain it won't be a terrible card to play. In fact, I believe Esper will be quite strong and solidly tier 1 with it. It will be a fair midrange deck that crushes other fair decks with souls + all of the other tools to play + JTMS. Will still be losing to Tron and combos though :p

    Plus, UWx seems to be getting new strong cards and counterspell plus containment priest may also arrive!
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Re neoform deck: I really believe we will only need to worry when London mulligan comes into effect. We are fine for now for certain.

    I am super impressed from all those UWx staples as well. Sadly, Stoneforge Mystic will look hard to be unbanned, if UWx moves up the scale and top 8's much. Those new cards seem to help the deck a lit: Narset, Parter of Veils, Dovin's Veto, Teferi, Time Raveler, Ashiok, Dream Render.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Let me tell you all a think I don't believe I am even saying: The new Karn, the Great Creator Tron deck makes a very happy man.
    It's essentially a tutor deck that searches cards like Grafdigger's Cage, Trinisphere, Bottle Gnomes out of the sideboard with the -2 from the new Karn,while also having 3 open mana to play those, if you have tron(LOL!)

    I hated Tron with a passion; now I...love it? LOL!

    It really makes the deck more consistent and better overall. You can go tron turn 3, play the new karn, search for an oblivion stone and play it in the same turn(or whatever else, myrcosyth, bottle gnomes, Walking ballista...). And have a new Karn with 3 loyalty in the battlefield? What is happening on Modern? I don't know what it is, but I love it.

    It also empowers Mono U tron, a new Astral Cornucopia brew deck, some mono red prison decks, and God knows what else! I truly believe Karn, the Great Creator is the revelation from War of the sparks for all colourless decks!
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    That's the exact response I did not want to see though :p Your opinion is highly appriciated, but rather than you thinking that BL already looks funny or ludicrous, do you believe it would look even more that way if the new neoform deck gets to be another fine (tier 2 or lower) deck?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Here is the funny part:

    If the new neoform deck proves to be OK(even though it's better than cheerios, as it can not be bolted, or even won via path, and it does not use graveyard, and it's faster as it can and does win on turn 2", because spell pierce or too much hand disruption or whatever else hose it, we will have a difficult to hate turn 2 combo deck in modern. Previously, we did have such decks, with the difference being that they were easy to be hated out.
    The funny part now, is that Splinter Twin will look a bit silly on the banlist, being a turn 4 combo deck that can be disrupted so uch more easily than neoform, to the point it could really be an argument to unban it, and be completely fine(LOL!). That is, if it sticks around.
    Stoneforge Mystic, put a 4/4 lifelink vigilance and tap out on turn 2 and turn 3, will be ludicrous. Even GSZ, play a dryad arbor on turn 1 and have an extra mana on turn 2, might be fine?

    Serious question/TLDR: If the neoform deck gets handled by Modern(which is a possibility), is the road for possible unbans more open than ever? Isn't it a kind of hypocrisy to keep a disruptable turn 4(!!) deck in the banlist, or a turn 3 tap out twice to play a 4/4 lifelink vigilance on the BanList?

    My take: Yes, it would be. If it sticks, Splinter Twin would be a serious consideration for unbanning.

    (Note, I know some would say that SFM already look ludicrous in the BL, but let's leave that outside of the table please. Or if you think SFM is already fine, which might be, you should ask yourselves: Would SFM be even more fine with neoform being another modern deck that can win on turn 2 and it does not get hated out easily, or have super severe weaknesses?).

    PS: All of that is based upon the assumption that the deck can win more than 15% on turn 2, which my testing shows that it can(goldfished 100 games, had ~30 turn 2 kills and many more turn 3 kills. Cheerios had more or less the same, but this deck can be pushed/bolted/path'd. Someone could run the numbers and tell us about the turn 2 and turn 3 kills, possibility, @KTKENSHINX?)
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    The real question is if this deck can become a Tier 1 deck or if it stays untiered like cheerios. MODO is back on Vancouver mulligan and even if this deck needs cards, it seems to be lower on numbers today.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    It's power level should be fine; I am hearing various people having concerns about the non games it is creating though.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 11/03/2019)
    Can kill on turn 1, kills relatively easy turn 2 with no graveyard use and it's not boltable or pushable(even path is not that good against the deck).
    Uses those parts to go off(besides of lands):
    1) Allosaurus rider from your hand, +2 (exiling) green cards
    2) Neoform the dinosaur or eldritch evolution to bring griselbrand from your library.

    Then draws the whole deck, only to lightning storm you for a bunch.

    It also uses fast mana to achieve faster kills, such as simian spirit guide, or Chancellor of the Tanglefor free mana. That way, it is trying to turn 1 kill you with neoform and the free mana or turn 2 with just neoform or free mana + eldritch evolution.

    The deck has some serious problems.

    1) Discard. Because the dinosaur requires you to exile two green cards. Even then, some lists play noxious revival to bring back the important pieces.
    2) Counter the neoform, because it loses the dinosaur as well. Even then, it plays pact of negation to protect itself. And if you path to exile the demon, it is drawing cards in response, can find the pact and counter it, then kill you.

    It's turn 2 is as consistent as Cheerio's is. With the difference that it can not be targeted with most spot removals. And it does not use graveyard of course.

    Cards that are good against it: spell pierce, grafdigger's cage, chalice of the void, pithing needle on turn 1 with simian spirit guide, pithing needle. That's why it's playing one Dissenter's Deliverance maindeck and several artifact hate in the sideboard.

    Edit: I don't know how good chalice is against it, since they actually play 2-4 chalice on their sb and their only one drop is serum visions. We have a decklist posted in today's 5-0 competitive league. https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2019-04-30
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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