MTG Salvation

LGS Champs, 16 players 4-1 and second place with mono blue merfolk =)

COuld you guys watch my recorded match and give me advices ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSC8qrzDDro PART 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGIHVhstTs PART 2

Did 4-1 last night at Lgs with mono blue.

I`ll post list later, but for now I have to say: DISMEMBER is very necessary. Won against GW Company and Counters Company combo with it. If it was Spell Pierce on my hand I would lose

Just lose to Elves in a very close game, he topdeck elvish champion and smiled. I was "what?? He cant beat me with that"

Then, he pointed my shockland UG island/FOREST..........that sucked

Played with a friend last night, against Counter Company. 1-6 to him.

Theres no way to beat the combo without Dismember main deck. I tried race him, dispel him, everything, but the combo always happened.

I hate that deck, far more than any other right now.

How do you beat a turn 3 combo by Counter Company without Dismember?

Another weekend with UG TOP8.

WHATS GOING ON ???? THIS IS A PANDEMONIUM LOL

"The world is not the same as it was, Charles..."

Rothgar is now a Kopala RiP MoW

@Rothgar I strongly respect your opinion, so I have to ask: whats your true thoughts about UG over Mono Blue ?

@Pabloduque Great report...Im still trying to find the correct number of Kopala / Kira / Vendilion / Copters

Also, I strongly recomend MINAMO in your list full of Legendaries....its very useful

Worst Simic list ever....

I'm jamming 4 of Catcher and Speaker, and they've both been great. Having a consistent Turn 1 play that affects the board has been one of the aspects I've been most pleased with out of Tropical Fish, and 12 1-drops (between Vial, Catcher, and Speaker) are what make that happen.

Quote from sibin »

LGS Champs, 16 players 4-1 and second place with mono blue merfolk =)

COuld you guys watch my recorded match and give me advices ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSC8qrzDDro PART 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGIHVhstTs PART 2

Mismatched Islands, little bit of foils, some regular cards, few inventions, a promo, I thought you were a professional
At 5:00 exposing Copter to Push or Path is not something I would do, that card is too powerful for that, make them leave open mana if they can, you are not under pressure.
At 8:15 you are casting Reej instead of Seas and Lord, smacking him for 6. This way you have wasted mana and dead Adept.
At 26:00 when you cast Relic, unless you expect Ooze and have a creature in your yard, you should activate it immediately (exile one card, not to draw), they could have Tasigur or Angler and waiting for their EOT is not doing you a favor.
At 29:30 you draw a Kira. The way your opponent is playing is that he only uses removal when you show aggression (attack step). I would pass a turn waiting to tick up Vial to 3 and then activate to put Kira down. Opponent is showing a lot of signs that he doesn't know what your cards do, you could wait.
At 30:55 why did Kira stayed home?
At 32:15 Vialing Adept on your turn, what were you hoping to find? Seas doesn't win it this turn, nor another Lord or Waves, Damnation is a real possibility, you could wait.

Second video.
1:05 you pass the turn with overwhelming board? Couldn't you just put the revealed Lord down and smash? He has no good blocks, the game is over.

Congrats, man! And to answer your question, I'm kind of out on Copter in Modern, but I consider it to be fantastic in Legacy. The Legacy version of the deck is in greater need of filtering, and a 3/3 body represents an upgrade more often than it does in Modern (because we have more Lords). I'll check out your recorded match when I have a chance, and edit this post accordingly.

That 75 looks pretty tuned, Ashiok. I like the look of it. It’s too bad the PhImage didn’t do well for you, but that’s kind of what happens to that card in Modern. I've never been impressed with it in this format.

The proclamations of UG being the stock list going forward are a bit much, though. We’re nowhere near there yet. UG has made some strides on being considered in equal footing to mono-U, but until it starts spiking Grand Prix-caliber tournaments or Top8-ing tournaments of all kinds at a high rate, mono-U is still the default.

This is the list I've been running on Cockatrice, after incorporating suggestions from the thread.



So far, results have been good. I played 10 matches with this configuration, to a 7-3 record. Lost 1-2 to only one real deck (a death's shadow/tarmogoyf/traverse the ulvenwald jund deck), because I sideboarded incorrectly and forgot to bring in some needles to face lili of the veil. Also lost 0-2 to a madcap experiment platinum angel deck. These two losses made me cut phantasmal image mainboard (it was not being good), and try the dismembers everyone has been suggesting. The final loss was a 1-2 record against a bad land destruction deck, because he found the firespouts in the most important turn in one game and I got stuck on one land in the other game, not drawing lands for multiple turns in a row. I defeated storm, eldrazi and taxes, goryo's gifts, scapeshift, R/G tron, rat moon and B/W death and taxes.

Important observations:

- Manabase is great, both colorwise and countwise. I would strongly suggest everyone try 18 lands with the split I used above. Initially I wanted to play with 22 lands because I was afraid of mulligan into oblivion. However, since I accepted the fact that I will have to mulligan some no-landers and one-landers, the deck has been perfoming incredibly well. I didn't test yavimaya coasts as ketoglutarate suggests, so I don't know how good they are. Believe it or not, I have yet to get color screwed despite the 4 mutavaults main (which have been excellent). The split with four different fetchlands is to combat very corner case scenarios where opponent pithing needles a random fetchland or surgical extracts a fetch with you having another in hand or something like that. If you can have 4 different fetches, do it, if you can't, it is not a big deal.

- Phantasmal image has been bad. Aside from the terrible nonbo that it is with silvergill adept and merrow reejerey, it is rare that it gets to be decisive. It is also not out of question that the opponent can kill it without a removal spell. Kessig Wolf Run and Walking Ballista are cards that kill image with ease, where they wouldn't do it with other merfolk. I've exchanged the image for dismembers due to suggestions made here, and still haven't put enough games with it to know if it is good. So far it hasn't been crucial, just ok, but I didn't play matchups where it would have matter that much. I still didn't test pongify as some suggested.

- I love the current sideboard configuration. I stand by my initial assessment that counterspells are not needed, and even bad. However, I decided to make an exception for dispel due to the fact that it covers some matchups that became a bit rough. Namely: infect, burn and jeskai/uw control decks. In that sense, I started to learn the importance of having dispel against control decks that pile up lots of removal. I actually didn't play against infect or burn, but I had absolutely no answer to these decks and dispel did the trick. Finally, I don't play kira or kopala to keep the mana curve low, so I needed the extra protection from dispel. I recommend 4 relic for sure. It is amazing in the matchups that you need it. 4 needles and 4 states is a bit experimental, but I'm sure my sideboard will end up with some number of those cards. Needle was absolutely MVP in a matchup against a death and taxes deck where I named Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. It is tricky to know when to side it in though, and I'm not sure if 4 is the correct number, maybe 3 would be enough. Natural state also didn't have an opportunity to shine, mainly because I didn't play against the decks where I wanted it: affinity, thopter foundry, various tezzerets decks, lantern control and other ensnaring bridge decks. I gave some though in bringing state against a rat moon opponent, but it felt very unnecessary, despite losing one game to a blood moon. I just fecthed islands the other two games and won. I think 4 natural states here is also a big number, probably should go down to 3, opening up 2 slots if you add the needle reduction. That said, I love the current choice of cards. I didn't incorporate my own suggestion of having master of waves on the sideboard because I'm playing with 18 lands, not 19, and I think that is too low for master.

- I strongly recommend keeping the cursecatcher count at 4. The card has been clutch in some crucial matchups, and the higher number increases our chances of a turn 1 play. Despite my initial grudge against harbinger, the card has been alright. To be frank, there are a tad too many matchups where it is just a 2/2 for 2, but I'm learning to live with that. If rivals prints some good interactive merfolk for 2, I would consider cutting the harbinger. I also may have not played enough matchups to appreciate where harbinger is good. The rest of the core of the deck feels excellent. The low land count coupled with the lower curve makes the deck more aggressive and incisive, better at goldfishing the turn 4 kills and better at keeping an aggressive pace from the get go.

- Last but not least, I will say it now: initially I thought this deck and the monoblue version were different takes on the same theme with different strengths and weaknesses without a clear version being better than the other. I still think they are slightly different takes, but I no longer think they are 'equally strong' in different scenarios. I can say, confidently, that the blue/green version is the superior version. It is faster, more streamlined, and has more staying power with the extra cantrip/selection effect in branchwalker and the reduced number of lands. It is hard to appreciate how these small changes make the deck better, but they do. The only meta now where I could consider playing monoblue intead of blue/green is a heavy midrange meta, because master of waves shines in midrange. However, I don't see modern shifting to midrange anytime soon.

Unless Rivals of Ixalan prints some insane monoblue merfolks that fit the old shell better, I can say with confidence that the blue/green version will be the new paradigm for fish going forward. Blue green will be the 'reference list' and monoblue will be a side option. The green splash also has something that is not completely appreciated: more flexibility to adapt to meta changes. Maybe future lists will include CoCo, Lead the Stampede, Life Goes On, etc. The access to an extra color in the pie obviously gives us more chance to keep up.

That is all for now.

EDIT: I like ketoglutarate's suggestion of shaper's sanctuary. I might try that on the sideboard cutting the one needle and the one natural state.

Quote from sibin »

Hmmmmm...

I know what you are thinking but that is probably a reprint for Rivals and I expect this cycle for Vamps, Pirates and Dinos.
Since power level from a creature side is too low, and U version wouldn't play more 4-drops than a set of Waves, UG version would probably fare better with Lead the Stampede, I don't see it crossing Standard into Modern.
Goblins can use Ringleaders better since "removal" Incinerator and even Tarfire are a Goblin, while we use too many nonMerfolk.

The hype wave rides on, I see. UG Merfolk is on quite the roll at the moment, we'll see if it can be sustained.

Master of Waves is still doing all right for me, folks - Kopala just has cooler art.

I understand the concern of having too many mediocre topdecks, but in this meta obsessed with efficiency, it's a bit of an eyebrow-raiser to cut one of the major sources of positive tempo (and the occasional blowout) in Cursecatcher. I'd jam the 8 1-drops and try to goldfish those T4 kills.

Quote from Ashiok »

Disagree. The idea here is that we mitigate flooding by drawing more cards with branchwalker. Please notice that the average CMC of that decklist is ~1.8. Given that the recommended land count is something between 21 and 22. Read this artcile for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/brewer-s-minute-how-many-lands

That's just not how Turbo Xerox theory works. The more ways you have to find lands, the fewer actual lands you need, especially when you have little to no ways to use them efficiently once you're hellbent (and you don't - none of us do). I'll take Frank Karsten's math over SaffronOlive's any day, and according to him 20 lands is just right for this deck (you might even be able to get away with 19, thanks to the cantrips). As a Merfolk pilot with thousands of matches of sanctioned competitive matches on MTGO (and God-only-knows how many on paper), I can tell you that going over 20 lands will almost certainly result in having more lands than you can actually do productive things with in the midgame, which is how Merfolk loses.

Quote from Ashiok »

Disagree again. This deck is supposed to be faster and hit stronger than other creature decks. The only reason why we might want to interact is if they are creature-combo decks, hence making them stronger in that sense. Aside from that, we should be able to ignore what our opponent is doing most of the time while killing them in the meanwhile. Besides, what kind of interaction against the aforementioned decks harbinger of the tides provide? I've played 4 hurkyll's recall against affinity once upon a time and struggled to beat them in the tempo game, certainly bouncing one of their dudes, even if equipped with plating, isn't doing much better. Same for burn, you don't save yourself by bouncing a swiftspear or goblin guide, but by killing them faster. Tell me please how dismember is helping you in such matchups? The card is 4 points of damage to our face. If I'm a burn player I'm actually happy to see the opponent doing that to himself. You can't tailor your sideboard against everything, I chose some matchups and stuck to them, I really don't think our deck needs more help killing other creature decks because it is already good at that.

Dismember is bad against Burn, certainly, but thanks to cards like Harbinger of the Tides (which bottlenecks their mana if cast at sorcery speed, or erases attacks if Vialed/flashed in) and Master of Waves (which often wins the game on the spot), our Game 1 against the deck is good enough to get away with a dead card, which you will obviously side out. These are the dangers of cutting the cards you did - you have fundamentally changed how the deck functions, and not for the better. Against Affinity, Dismember is painful, but it beats taking lethal infect damage or 10+ regular damage from a loaded-up flyer, and it certainly beats letting your opponent untap Steel Overseer or Master of Etherium. Harbinger is important against Affinity because it provides a body to pressure the opponent with in addition to buying you time. These are all well-established things that have borne out by the testing of hundreds of Merfolk players. You can try to race those decks if you want. You will lose.

The point about being supposed to be faster than other creature decks simply isn't true - we're a medium-speed, high-power, high-resilience creature deck. We can't match up to the raw velocity of Affinity, Elves, Goblins, or Zoo, and we likely never will. What we have is the ability to interact, and the ability to defend ourselves against interaction. That's our competitive advantage.

Quote from Ashiok »

So... I have 12 sources to get those cards and you think that is bad? I can do as someone suggested and add a couple botanical sanctuns to solve this 'problem'. Regardless, I think you could go without the sanctum since you don't necessarily always need to cast speaker on one (if you have a cursecatcher, for instance, you play that instead).

Yes, I think it's bad, because tempo is important for this deck, and unreliable mana is the quickest way to fall behind on tempo. Speaker's effectiveness in particular wanes the longer you wait to cast it (Branchwalker, on the other hand, holds steady value more or less throughout the game). However, if your goal is to curve out and kill on Turn 4 (and if you don't, you are strictly worse than the classic Merfolk list), your mana needs to be as smooth and efficient as possible.

Quote from Ashiok »

Hibernation: they can only float infinite mana if you don't bounce devoted druid in responde to vizier. Why wouldn't you do that? You can also board away some of the green guys? What is you suggestion for CoCo decks? Hibernation also hits elves, which are usually faster than us. Dispel and pierce: Yes, I'm not adding dispel and pierce to combat the decks you mentioned, but to combat control decks as I said. And, as I said, your sideboard can't be tailored for everything. What would you change in the sideboard to improve the matchups against storm and nauseam without crippling yourself against dredge, living end, affinity, tron, etc? Why the 'sub-optimal' nature of the green splash? It is almost a free splash, if not entirely free. Yes, you will lose one game in one-hundred due to drawing awkwardly, but to say that the splash is suboptimal given that the new cards seem STRONG additions to the deck is just... guessing? To be fair, I didn't test them either,so they may be not as good as they seem, but I'm not claiming it is not a good splash without testing it. Finally: the deck is faster because the curve is lowered. Yes, the fastest kill can still happen only turn 4, but you will kill more often in earlier turns since you're not playing slow spells like master of waves. Master is not bad, but it is not for the current metagame in my honest opinion. That's all. I will address the other posts later.

Everything you said about Hibernation can be done better by Echoing Truth - costs less mana to hold up, has 0 friendly fire issues, buys you the turn you need against the threat in question, and is better against the field. The proposal to take out green creatures to make Hibernation work is particularly bewildering, given that most non-dork green creatures in CoCo decks have useful ETB effects that you don't want to give them a redo on, and that you're going to need to pressure them in order to win (and all of your green creatures are early drops meant to pressure the opponent). You combat CoCo decks by disrupting early then aggroing hard - those Spell Pierces need to be Negates (because their ability to ramp makes "tax" counterspells bad), and Ceremonious Rejection needs to be prominently involved in your sideboard for Affinity/Eldrazi/Tron.

As for your comments on the splash... please see Nikachu's video series on splashing colors in Merfolk (I'm specifically linking the one for G, but he did one for every color). If that's not enough for you, check out Corbin Hosler's stab at it. This is well-trod ground, and we know that all of the splashes are sub-optimal from the testimonials of players who have tried it and found wanting. Also, adding a couple of 1-drops does not inherently make the deck significantly faster - Merfolk's T4 kills come from double/triple Lord and 1-2 other attackers. That can be anything from a Cursecatcher to a Silvergill Adept to a Harbinger of the Tides. Your deck looks more like a Zoo deck than theirs, and I don't mean that as a compliment - Zoo is gone from the competitive meta, in part because vanilla beaters are something this metagame is well-tuned to beat.

I also think you massively underestimate Master of Waves - it's very difficult for many decks to remove, especially with a Kira, Great Glass-Spinner on the battlefield. It usually wins the game on the spot against Burn, and the likes of Shadow need to basically find a Revolted Fatal Push on the spot or die (spoiler: they usually don't, because otherwise they would have died to your other creatures earlier in the game).

My conclusion is that you're inexperienced in the format, and that is leading you to draw erroneous conclusions as to what the deck does and does not need. Commander experience in particular translates poorly over to 60-card constructed. You can test your deck if you like, but I think you'll find that you won't be any faster, and thus your deck will be strictly worse than the classic shell (which is classic for a reason).