It might be better just to combine Commander damage from partners into a single player rather than track separate commander damage for each partner.
In multiplayer, it would still be a mess to track. Imagine in a 4 player edh each player tracking in paper 3 different sources of commander damages (or even 4 if anybody commander is stealed) that most of the time wont even matter, really isnt worth to do it. Voltron strategies are really a minority and works really only in 1vs1, since in multi, everything is more dispersive. Also, when somebody wanna actually make somehow relevant and successful the commander damages in a multiplayer, it either is one-shotting out from nowhere or just spiteful pick on against the same player, which totally a feel-bad and antisocial experience that just bring misery and grudges on the game. In my playgroup is since 2011 that we ignore that rule, and honestly, never missed again, thats why I can understand perfectly why WotC don't want to ever make a "commander damage matter" a thing in card texts, because is clunky, unelegant, memory issues and don't lead to good gameplay experience in general.
notepads work really great for tracking commander damage.
like, even if it were lumped together you just slap down on the pad something like Player 4: akiri/tymna. then just start ticking damage, even if its stolen whenever you're wacked you just tally it right there. no fuss.
i do agree with voltron being very antisocial and causing feels bad moments as well as grudges, but i also think its very necessary to make certain commanders viable at all. to get rid of it just invites the format to be a degenerate combo mess. i mean it already is, but at least sometimes you eat a skythrix to the face. it gives aggro an edge it otherwise wouldn't have, it doesn't necessarily make it viable but it keeps some commanders at least playable.
personally i wouldn't mind seeing them explore commander damage mechanics more. that said they'd also probably break it.
When it was legal it wasnt uncommon for games to look like:
T1 forest, green suns get dryad arbor
T2 ancient tomb, natural order
T3 clone it, clone it again
The problem is if its early you **** over everyone elses land drops and youre up 3 lands for it. Making it easier to clone and reanimate which keeps them further down. Even late game it turned into clonefights
In a casual group op agent doesnt do much, screws with some ramp generally, maybe a clutch tutor, but doesnt really break anything
Hullbreacher is similar. Sucks when someone responds to their own wheel, but thats not common casually. Of the two i think its the more problematic, but when abused it basically just ends the game instead of dragging it out and having everyone fight over it so... meh
I think the white cards in the commander precons alone are fairly strong, and make me optimistic regarding white's core identity moving into the near future, but I still don't think they adequately address card advantage, ramp, or raw strength. What else can white be doing to more directly advance a win?
Most White cards just get you up to curve or one turn behind. We’re starting to see a lot of cards that give your opponents stuff but then give your more stuff. That should be exclusive to White. Give all 3 opponents 1 basic land, you get 3. Let them draw 2 cards, you draw 6. Etc. It’s in line with White’s color identity and would help White to get ahead, not just be behind less.
Yeah, this was something we talked about a lot in my play group, its getting better but isnt quite there yet. Giving resources to opponents can backfire really hard really fast so the gains have to be a little more significant than they are currently
What a bunch of stinkeroo planeswalker reprints. Couldn't we have gotten, like, one of Ajani's cards, or a Garruk that wasn't just reprinted in C19, or a black planeswalker that doesn't suck?
is two years ago “just reprinted” now?
When something is worthless and better equally worthless options exist... well yeah
I get the idea is to improve the deck yourself and to find neat synergistic cards, but at a certain point its just lazy. Why put thought or creativity into it if its going to sell regardless.
Its a well done precon, way more where these things should be headed, but it couldve been better with just a hair more effort in terms of reprints
So first it was a frequency complaint, now it’s a power complaint. Do you even know what you’re complaining about or are you *****ing just to *****?
for reprints, the two go hand in hand. For Mana Crypt, a powerful card with tons of demand, a reprint every 2 years like clockwork would be nice. There will never be more Mana Crypts than demand for them, not as long as EDH exists. for Sol Ring, it's cheap, but if EDH keeps growing at this rate, if they stopped printing it for two years there might be a small demand problem, because it's such a powerful card. If a card has plenty of demand, 2 years is a lot longer than for a card with no demand. If that Garruk was not printed again for another 5 years, it would still be a $2-3 card.
Time has always been relative, and any Magic player knows the relationship between power/demand/reprint need
This guy gets it.
Its always going to be both.
Also reprinting cheap things repeatedly that synergize with a precon is always going to be better than reprinting cheap things that dont.
Look at high market, worthless now, a billion reprints, there are other options that wouldve been nice to see BUT it synergizes so well here not seeing it wouldve been a mistake
What does ob do here that several other cheapo walkers couldnt do better within the deck? If we're not reprinting things that need it, why not at least be fun with it?
Its a well done deck, with good cards, no one is really disputing that.
A minor critique is not an indictment of an entire product. most of more vocal members here lately seem to forget that.
As a community we should be discussing things, good and bad, mundane and spectacular. We all love the game. Instead, some choose to seize on such a minor thing like rabid dogs, escalating nonissues, and hurling insults. Its toxic.
What a bunch of stinkeroo planeswalker reprints. Couldn't we have gotten, like, one of Ajani's cards, or a Garruk that wasn't just reprinted in C19, or a black planeswalker that doesn't suck?
is two years ago “just reprinted” now?
When something is worthless and better equally worthless options exist... well yeah
I get the idea is to improve the deck yourself and to find neat synergistic cards, but at a certain point its just lazy. Why put thought or creativity into it if its going to sell regardless.
Its a well done precon, way more where these things should be headed, but it couldve been better with just a hair more effort in terms of reprints
Theyre hes got some interesting concepts, but thats really all they are.
Like the giving resources to opponents as a way to wheel and deal works in theory, but practice is far different. They wont kill you with those resources sure, but youre helping them kill you with different ones. A lot of people also see those effects helping push one person and end up annoyed with you enough to target you exclusively instead.
Designing a whole deck around his favored concepts just feels like it misses the mark.
Politics needs to happen naturally, it cant be forced.
I'm not sure it's political so much as asymmetrically benefiting yourself. It's like an entire deck devoted to the concept of goad - everybody gets strong stuff, but it can't be used against you.
The Silverquill deck plays out like Curse of Opulence - one of my favorite red cards - writ large, and I'm really starting to come around on it. I don't care if anyone else benefits as long as I benefit more, and have answers to boot.
Idk man. I understand the concept but my dirwlect experiences with that sort of thing is that while sure, other players will die, but theyll spend less resources doing it because theyre not worried about you. Meaning you then eat a hoof, or an infinite damage loop, or lose to lab man.
I don't know why they bother with all of these pillowfort cards in these colors. It's been done to death by now.
The deck was created by Commander Rules Committee head Sheldon Menery, who loves effects and decks like this. It was bound to happen on his first project.
Sheldon's creativity and format insight never fail to disappoint
Agreed.
Theyre hes got some interesting concepts, but thats really all they are.
Like the giving resources to opponents as a way to wheel and deal works in theory, but practice is far different. They wont kill you with those resources sure, but youre helping them kill you with different ones. A lot of people also see those effects helping push one person and end up annoyed with you enough to target you exclusively instead.
Designing a whole deck around his favored concepts just feels like it misses the mark.
Politics needs to happen naturally, it cant be forced.
These all seem terrible except that damage prevention spell that makes inklings.
Like there are neat concepts here but so many of these cards are just not giving you enough reward for your resources while simultaneously pushing your opponents ahead on your dime
Nope. Only for control and combo decks "all removals are asymmetrical". Many removals are definitely more asymmetrical than others, and black is king on this. You clearly confirm that your knowledge about commander games and strategies is quite limited and you are basing all your argument on that bias.
All mass removal is asymmetrical because you choose when you play it. Not a difficult concept really.
Nope. Only for control and combo decks "all removals are asymmetrical". Many removals are definitely more asymmetrical than others, and black is king on this. You clearly confirm that your knowledge about commander games and strategies is quite limited and you are basing all your argument on that bias.
All mass removal is asymmetrical because you choose when you play it. Not a difficult concept really.
And still is true my statement, some mass removals are more asymmetrical than others. a Decree of Pain or in Garruk Wake's can do much more advantage and even straight win you the game in the good situation, a simple wrath will simply reset the board most of the time. As I said, you are wrong when you say that black mass removals are both "inefficent and worse" because only one of the 2 is actually true.
You know, in my play group, we wouldn't bother playing wrath, doomskar or other basic wrath effects. First of all - if it doesn't exile, or put on the bottom of the library, between indestructible and graveyard shenanigans, those removals accomplish very little except perhaps adding a turn or two to the game. Inevitably, someone is set to recover better than the other people based on equipment/enchantments/etc, so you are only changing who is going to win the game amongst your 3 opponents, and not actually improving your own lot at all. We pretty much only play modal (merciless eviction/crux of fate/austere command) or purely lopsided wrath effects (ruinous ultimatum, in garruk's wake, slaughter the strong, tragic arrogance or single combat in certain one critter combo decks), occasionally we may see an odd fumigate or the aforementioned terminus. We tend to run a lot more enchant removal/artifact removal (fracturing gust, bane of progress, shatterstorm, even some form or another of tranquility) and tend to leave the creature removal to single target - problem solving removal. Too many commanders are almost single card combos and by the time you can cast a sorcery to deal with them, it is too late.
My playgroup is very similar in that regard though ive never thought about it until reading your post. I feel its a natural progression of any playgroup, or even a deck over time, to favor those sorts of answers over generic board wipes for exactly what youve described. I also feel most arent actively aware of that shift as they move board wipes out of their decks or spot removal in.
notepads work really great for tracking commander damage.
like, even if it were lumped together you just slap down on the pad something like Player 4: akiri/tymna. then just start ticking damage, even if its stolen whenever you're wacked you just tally it right there. no fuss.
i do agree with voltron being very antisocial and causing feels bad moments as well as grudges, but i also think its very necessary to make certain commanders viable at all. to get rid of it just invites the format to be a degenerate combo mess. i mean it already is, but at least sometimes you eat a skythrix to the face. it gives aggro an edge it otherwise wouldn't have, it doesn't necessarily make it viable but it keeps some commanders at least playable.
personally i wouldn't mind seeing them explore commander damage mechanics more. that said they'd also probably break it.
T1 forest, green suns get dryad arbor
T2 ancient tomb, natural order
T3 clone it, clone it again
The problem is if its early you **** over everyone elses land drops and youre up 3 lands for it. Making it easier to clone and reanimate which keeps them further down. Even late game it turned into clonefights
In a casual group op agent doesnt do much, screws with some ramp generally, maybe a clutch tutor, but doesnt really break anything
Hullbreacher is similar. Sucks when someone responds to their own wheel, but thats not common casually. Of the two i think its the more problematic, but when abused it basically just ends the game instead of dragging it out and having everyone fight over it so... meh
Yeah, this was something we talked about a lot in my play group, its getting better but isnt quite there yet. Giving resources to opponents can backfire really hard really fast so the gains have to be a little more significant than they are currently
This guy gets it.
Its always going to be both.
Also reprinting cheap things repeatedly that synergize with a precon is always going to be better than reprinting cheap things that dont.
Look at high market, worthless now, a billion reprints, there are other options that wouldve been nice to see BUT it synergizes so well here not seeing it wouldve been a mistake
What does ob do here that several other cheapo walkers couldnt do better within the deck? If we're not reprinting things that need it, why not at least be fun with it?
Its a well done deck, with good cards, no one is really disputing that.
A minor critique is not an indictment of an entire product. most of more vocal members here lately seem to forget that.
As a community we should be discussing things, good and bad, mundane and spectacular. We all love the game. Instead, some choose to seize on such a minor thing like rabid dogs, escalating nonissues, and hurling insults. Its toxic.
When something is worthless and better equally worthless options exist... well yeah
I get the idea is to improve the deck yourself and to find neat synergistic cards, but at a certain point its just lazy. Why put thought or creativity into it if its going to sell regardless.
Its a well done precon, way more where these things should be headed, but it couldve been better with just a hair more effort in terms of reprints
Yes it fits here but **** me sideways print a different sac outlet land for once
This is why leaks happen
Idk man. I understand the concept but my dirwlect experiences with that sort of thing is that while sure, other players will die, but theyll spend less resources doing it because theyre not worried about you. Meaning you then eat a hoof, or an infinite damage loop, or lose to lab man.
The survey is just a means to get people talking and to drive hype.
Agreed.
Theyre hes got some interesting concepts, but thats really all they are.
Like the giving resources to opponents as a way to wheel and deal works in theory, but practice is far different. They wont kill you with those resources sure, but youre helping them kill you with different ones. A lot of people also see those effects helping push one person and end up annoyed with you enough to target you exclusively instead.
Designing a whole deck around his favored concepts just feels like it misses the mark.
Politics needs to happen naturally, it cant be forced.
Like there are neat concepts here but so many of these cards are just not giving you enough reward for your resources while simultaneously pushing your opponents ahead on your dime
Ill skip this precon
My playgroup is very similar in that regard though ive never thought about it until reading your post. I feel its a natural progression of any playgroup, or even a deck over time, to favor those sorts of answers over generic board wipes for exactly what youve described. I also feel most arent actively aware of that shift as they move board wipes out of their decks or spot removal in.