I think after MH Blue will have more than enough tools to be very strong. Playable planeswalkers from War were mostly blue, I think other colors also need some support.
Was spoiled:
BRR
Lightning Skelemental
Creature - Skeleton Elemental
Haste, Trample
When ~ deals combat damage to a player that player discards 2 cards.
Sicrifice ~ at the beginning of eot.
6/1
The deck was 50% at the latest GP, with the deck warping itself to win in the mirror, and the format warping around itself to beat it...yet it still posted a greater than 50 win%. That's impressive. If you don't cherry pick your data Phoenix has been running between 53-58%. You can argue not to ban something without resorting to obviously ridiculous lies and half truths.
I just dont see why the 'b' word is being used at all. Nobody is asking for bans that I can see.
I want Phoenixes and dredge be banned, so what? And I'm pretty sure there're other people that want bans too but not posting here.
So please, stop saying that "WE" don't want bans.
Oh, sorry, feel free to call for bans, I did not see the posts which had started the ban conversation.
I would like to but I'm not sure if this will be usefull for ppl here. Most ppl on this tread who are posting are against bans and I don't think they want to hear anything about it.
I can explain my visions of more balanced modern and why bans are necessary (and some other stuuf Wizards should not do).
The deck was 50% at the latest GP, with the deck warping itself to win in the mirror, and the format warping around itself to beat it...yet it still posted a greater than 50 win%. That's impressive. If you don't cherry pick your data Phoenix has been running between 53-58%. You can argue not to ban something without resorting to obviously ridiculous lies and half truths.
I just dont see why the 'b' word is being used at all. Nobody is asking for bans that I can see.
I want Phoenixes and dredge be banned, so what? And I'm pretty sure there're other people that want bans too but not posting here.
So please, stop saying that "WE" don't want bans.
only Phoenix and dredge? Let's ban storm too preventive to be sure, because if dredge and Phoenix dyes this is good for storm. Maybe soon you can play all day long against your own deck if this is the way you want modern
Even if I don't like Storm myself, I can't call it unbalanced and call for bans against it. They's enough hate and common used answer to get this deck out of format. It's also not so fast and resilient as dredge and phoenix.
The deck was 50% at the latest GP, with the deck warping itself to win in the mirror, and the format warping around itself to beat it...yet it still posted a greater than 50 win%. That's impressive. If you don't cherry pick your data Phoenix has been running between 53-58%. You can argue not to ban something without resorting to obviously ridiculous lies and half truths.
I just dont see why the 'b' word is being used at all. Nobody is asking for bans that I can see.
I want Phoenixes and dredge be banned, so what? And I'm pretty sure there're other people that want bans too but not posting here.
So please, stop saying that "WE" don't want bans.
I think they predicted uprising of dredge and risks with Phoenix.
I think that the main reason they unleashed the Dredhe was bcs before second Ravnica set UW Miracles were dominating metagame (it was summer 2018) and they fast reanimated dredge as counterdeck.
The best ways to adapt to the Phoenix meta is to play things like:
Tron
Prison
GDS
Amulet (Verdict isn't 100% settling on who is favored)
Titan Shift
Ad Naus
And decks that largely ignore what Phoenix is trying to accomplish. I know I know, TRON! Yet, if the way to beat Phoenix is Tron/Big mana that allows other decks to come in and beat up those arch types. Players are figuring it out. My Own record against Phoenix is very good (SCG events, Both Classic and Regionals), I found my spaghetti monsters enjoy their match up
I do understand the frustration towards the current state of modern but we are seeing a reaction this weekend. It takes some time for players to figure the right ways to beat the many flavors of Phoenix. There wasn't a full consensus on how to SB against UR in our Tron thread until a few weeks ago. From there there's a lot of testing that goes in to making sure we aren't just kidding ourselves. With MH horizons on it's way, we need to be positive about the shake ups that set will initiate. If all that fails then another hammer will fall.
MonoR Phoenix deck is like burn - worst possible match up for tron. I also played UR version several times - it didn't feel that bad in first game and probably slightly unfavorable postside. Closer to 50-50.
People, who are saying that there are a lot of answers for phoenix decks - what are they? What the myth about good answers against that deck?
Bcs only good answers I see for now are creatures like Kalitas and Anafenza that fit in only in humans and BGx or Chalices that work good mostly in artifact prison decks.
Theese and rest of the gy hate cards are hurting decks that are playing them more than decks they're targeted against. Bcs a lot of decks at least slightly but using gy for some synergies so gy strategies hurt them a lot.
I don't know how you call with all that modern good and balanced without good answers in format for a lot of decks.
Btw, here also goes how Phoenix and Dredge decks are not warping format around themselves as Twin/Pod/Eldrazi and other decks did. I'm pretty sure that ban WILL happen bcs answers always come much later than new treats and in much-much less numbers for tonns of deck that were playable year ago.
Looting has to eat ban as fast as possible. Looting decks are too consistent and unbalanced.
It sucks to wait another year after KCI ban to see this looting metagaming raping everything else. And yes, your Containment priests and etc. will not help against T2 2-4 phoenixes in face.
Why looting and not others? As someone mentioned before - Phoenix itself is quite balanced without cheap enablers. You can see that in standard. This ban will also help not to kill all theese decks, only slow them down enough. And with killing options for super fast kills from theese decks - control decks will also get back to live and be competitive with their unbalanced Terminus. (lul)
Enough of this madness, it's time to stop looting decks. It's almost half a year when Phoenix decks showing consistent good results.
Modern sucks as it now.
It's somewhat of a tangent, but it's amusing to look back at how people in the past would warn that a Jace unban couldn't happen because he'd be slammed into every Blue deck, and non-Blue fair decks couldn't compete... which this Top 8 seems to be a rebuttal against.
It's not really correct. There're still a lot of agressive decks that don't allow Jace.decks to dominate format as it was in Summer of 2018.
If you'll look at metagame of Day 2 GP Toronto - you'll see TONS of aggro decks and some Ad Nauseum\Dredge combos that are awfull match ups for Control decks.
Hey, guys, what about unbanning all cards?
I don't really see any difference from what linear deck to die on t3. I mean, no matter what you ban or unban modern will still be about linear t3 decks, most of them which are interactive.
Bans are bad for players and unbans will only make things much worse.
I cannot write enough words to explain how and why I think this statement is wholly and completely wrong.
I'll try to explain why.
[...] if you udon't want to see opponent realizing potentian of his powerfull cards then just kill him before. Here comes t3 kill combo and aggro decks.
That's not unbans fault. Those strategies would be discovered anyway sooner or later.
Dredge would be the same deck even without BBE and Jace unbans, the same is true for Phoenix decks.
As long as unbans don't power up unfair strategies I can't understand why there shouldn't be.
Yeah, I can understand this position. But main question is what players really want? Nonlinear, interctive modern? Linear, interactive modern as it it's now?
If ppl want first, they have to push their desire and opinion bcs Wizards have testing team to reject potentially broken things and if something unexpected happens - ban it with banhammer tool. But as I see current modern's future - it's Legacy 2.0 with slow dying which is profitable for Wizards but not for players. (Standart and Arena reasons)
Bans are bad for players and unbans will only make things much worse.
I cannot write enough words to explain how and why I think this statement is wholly and completely wrong.
I'll try to explain why.
When Wizards unbanned JTMS and BBE, modern was some time fine in terms of power level of cards but if you look closely to decklists you could see BBE in each GR deck. It was everywhere! Same was for JTMS in summer of this year. This card was dominant for control archetype and it led to unhealthy deck building patterns.
When this happens, a lot of decks are forced to play exact cards to answer theese dominant cards and be able to be in game. Same goes for SFM - if Wizards will unban it, we will see much more K-Commands and other close to this cards that can effectivly answer Squier while other answers and cards will suffer.
Another side of the coin that we see now - if you udon't want to see opponent realizing potentian of his powerfull cards then just kill him before. Here comes t3 kill combo and aggro decks.
After Ross Meriam's article about bans and unbans I wrote my own article for russian community and thimk what:
I don't see any reason to ban or unban anything. With this I agree with Ross. Bans are bad for players and unbans will only make things much worse.
The way to help modern become less linear is to print for rest of colors specialized cantrips like Faithless Looting and Acient Stirrings are. We have good answers in modern but don't have proper tools to find them in time.
For example: W cantrip that searches enchantment, planeswalker, creatures in top 5; U cantrip that searches instant or sorcery and etc. Don't print universal cantrips like Poder, Brainstorm and etc. as usually but specific ones for each decks.
Here should be meme with Boromir about simple no changes
BRR
Lightning Skelemental
Creature - Skeleton Elemental
Haste, Trample
When ~ deals combat damage to a player that player discards 2 cards.
Sicrifice ~ at the beginning of eot.
6/1
Coco balls are now more dangerous
I would like to but I'm not sure if this will be usefull for ppl here. Most ppl on this tread who are posting are against bans and I don't think they want to hear anything about it.
I can explain my visions of more balanced modern and why bans are necessary (and some other stuuf Wizards should not do).
Even if I don't like Storm myself, I can't call it unbalanced and call for bans against it. They's enough hate and common used answer to get this deck out of format. It's also not so fast and resilient as dredge and phoenix.
I want Phoenixes and dredge be banned, so what? And I'm pretty sure there're other people that want bans too but not posting here.
So please, stop saying that "WE" don't want bans.
I think that the main reason they unleashed the Dredhe was bcs before second Ravnica set UW Miracles were dominating metagame (it was summer 2018) and they fast reanimated dredge as counterdeck.
MonoR Phoenix deck is like burn - worst possible match up for tron. I also played UR version several times - it didn't feel that bad in first game and probably slightly unfavorable postside. Closer to 50-50.
Bcs only good answers I see for now are creatures like Kalitas and Anafenza that fit in only in humans and BGx or Chalices that work good mostly in artifact prison decks.
Theese and rest of the gy hate cards are hurting decks that are playing them more than decks they're targeted against. Bcs a lot of decks at least slightly but using gy for some synergies so gy strategies hurt them a lot.
I don't know how you call with all that modern good and balanced without good answers in format for a lot of decks.
Btw, here also goes how Phoenix and Dredge decks are not warping format around themselves as Twin/Pod/Eldrazi and other decks did. I'm pretty sure that ban WILL happen bcs answers always come much later than new treats and in much-much less numbers for tonns of deck that were playable year ago.
It sucks to wait another year after KCI ban to see this looting metagaming raping everything else. And yes, your Containment priests and etc. will not help against T2 2-4 phoenixes in face.
Why looting and not others? As someone mentioned before - Phoenix itself is quite balanced without cheap enablers. You can see that in standard. This ban will also help not to kill all theese decks, only slow them down enough. And with killing options for super fast kills from theese decks - control decks will also get back to live and be competitive with their unbalanced Terminus. (lul)
Enough of this madness, it's time to stop looting decks. It's almost half a year when Phoenix decks showing consistent good results.
Modern sucks as it now.
It's not really correct. There're still a lot of agressive decks that don't allow Jace.decks to dominate format as it was in Summer of 2018.
If you'll look at metagame of Day 2 GP Toronto - you'll see TONS of aggro decks and some Ad Nauseum\Dredge combos that are awfull match ups for Control decks.
I don't really see any difference from what linear deck to die on t3. I mean, no matter what you ban or unban modern will still be about linear t3 decks, most of them which are interactive.
Yeah, I can understand this position. But main question is what players really want? Nonlinear, interctive modern? Linear, interactive modern as it it's now?
If ppl want first, they have to push their desire and opinion bcs Wizards have testing team to reject potentially broken things and if something unexpected happens - ban it with banhammer tool. But as I see current modern's future - it's Legacy 2.0 with slow dying which is profitable for Wizards but not for players. (Standart and Arena reasons)
I'll try to explain why.
When Wizards unbanned JTMS and BBE, modern was some time fine in terms of power level of cards but if you look closely to decklists you could see BBE in each GR deck. It was everywhere! Same was for JTMS in summer of this year. This card was dominant for control archetype and it led to unhealthy deck building patterns.
When this happens, a lot of decks are forced to play exact cards to answer theese dominant cards and be able to be in game. Same goes for SFM - if Wizards will unban it, we will see much more K-Commands and other close to this cards that can effectivly answer Squier while other answers and cards will suffer.
Another side of the coin that we see now - if you udon't want to see opponent realizing potentian of his powerfull cards then just kill him before. Here comes t3 kill combo and aggro decks.
I don't see any reason to ban or unban anything. With this I agree with Ross. Bans are bad for players and unbans will only make things much worse.
The way to help modern become less linear is to print for rest of colors specialized cantrips like Faithless Looting and Acient Stirrings are. We have good answers in modern but don't have proper tools to find them in time.
For example: W cantrip that searches enchantment, planeswalker, creatures in top 5; U cantrip that searches instant or sorcery and etc. Don't print universal cantrips like Poder, Brainstorm and etc. as usually but specific ones for each decks.
Here should be meme with Boromir about simple no changes