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  • posted a message on [Primer] Goblins
    If you have played with Piledriver a long time ago, then the meta must have been different from what it is now. I know that Hogaak will definitely be banned, causing a shift in the meta really soon, but there are other decks now that didn't exist back then (Phoenix and Thopter being the newest additions). So comparing your past experiences with the current ones is not an equal comparison.

    The power of him isn't that he can't be removed by blue spells (although that does help against UW Control, where they cannot bounce it with Cryptic Command, Jace, The Mind Sculptor or either Teferis) or that he can't be countered (he can indeed be countered, but counterspells are notoriously bad against us,because we run Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls); he is really good because he is a big threat, and needs to be answered. And when the opponent chooses to remove a Piledriver, that is one removal spell they cannot use on Matron or Ringleader.

    What I was saying is that in the decks I mentioned, there are only very few creatures that can block Piledriver, and even if they happen to have one of those, we have Munitions Expert, Pashalik Mons, Tarfire, Mogg Fanatic and/or Cratermaker as removal, so we can swing through with a 11/2. And if they are a deck that play few big creatures, they would either have to block with something like a Reality Smasher, Primeval Titan, or Tarmogoyf, or take a lot of damage. This also makes it so that other goblins (like Warchief) have a bigger chance of not getting blocked/killed in combat.
    As for Plague Engineer: when the opponent plays it, our main concern is getting rid of it, not getting in with Piledriver, so that argument is a bit loose. Any Goblin that survives that semi-sweeper is a big plus for us.

    We are not an aggro deck, and we do not want to attack every turn. We are only going to attack when a) the opponent has no creatures and/or we need to race, or b) if we can win. Getting in with Piledriver is not our main way of winning (that would be swinging with (almost) everything and saccing it post combat with Sling-Gang), but it is a really good plan B that we can Matron for to swing for lethal out of nowhere.

    Note that a big upside for Piledriver is that you can Vial it in at the end of your opponent's turn, and you can also give it haste with Warchief. This can make for some surprise attacks that the opponent didn't see coming (and didn't leave blockers open for). Also important: having multiples is insanely strong in almost all matchups.

    It helps us race against a lot of the top decks that are being played right now: Tron, UR Phoenix, Dredge, Storm, Spirits, Humans, UW Control, Valakut, Burn, and Thopter. It also survives more than most our goblins do: Wrenn and Six, Lava Dart, Gut Shot, Plague Engineer, or being blocked by 1/1's.

    Another thing I'd like to add is that I've seen and talked to a number of other Goblins players, and they all play 2-3 Piledrivers, with good results and a really positive view on the card.

    And to answer the last part of your response: the purpose of Piledriver is to race your opponent. Goblins is a control-combo deck, and generally gets outraced by decks like Burn or fast combo decks. Piledriver helps combat those decks, making our bad mautchups better.
    A more subjective thing, but: I would cut one Frogtosser Banneret and 2 Chieftains, or one Frogtosser, one Chieftain, and either one Tarfire, Pashalik Mons, or Skirk Prospector.

    And to explain a bit about Chieftain, which links nicely with The Fluff's question:
    Like I said before, Goblins is not an aggro deck. A lot of people make that mistake, but it is actually combo-control (for the lack of a better term for such a versatile deck). We want to block our opponent's creatures forever with Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Matron etc, draw cards forever (which is THE reason to play this deck; no other deck can grind like we can), and win in one turn with an alpha strike + Sling-Gang.
    Therefore, Chieftain isn't that good. He can pump our board, but if he gets removed during combat it can create an awful blocking scenario for us. It also doesn't protect our board against Plague Engineer: Jund right now is the biggest deck that runs PE, sometimes even mainboard, and Chieftain creates a house of cards like state, where only 1 damage to your Chieftain will cause it and all your pumped 1/1's to be gone.
    This is also why Piledriver is generally better: He gets the boost at the start of attackers phase, and what happens to the rest doesn't matter. If Piledriver gets removed during combat, the rest of the attackers stay the same, something which you can rely on.
    Trashmaster is a very strong sideboard card, but I don't think it's wanted/needed in the main.


    For clarity, and help with your list, here is my current list:

    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Auntie's Hovel
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Blood Crypt
    4 Mountain
    1 Swamp
    2 Field of Ruin
    22 Lands

    4 Aether Vial
    2 Skirk Prospector
    1 Mogg Fanatic
    1 Tarfire

    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Munitions Expert
    3 Goblin Piledriver
    2 Frogtosser Banneret
    1 Goblin Cratermaker

    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Warchief
    1 Pashalik Mons

    4 Goblin Ringleader
    2 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss

    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Earwig Squad
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Goblin Chainwhirler
    1 Blood Moon

    Note that there is no 'average' Goblins list. Because Goblins is partially a control deck, we have to change when the meta changes.
    Some things that deviate the most from other decks (even though my deck is a pretty average list):
    The amount of Skirk Prospectors (0-4), Mogg Fanatics (0-4), and Legion Loyalists (0-1)
    The amount of Frogtosser Bannerets (0-4), Goblin Cratermakers (0-2), Sling-Gangs (1-2) and Krenko's (0-1)
    The amount of lands (22 or 23), the amount of Field of Ruins (0-4), the amount of Swamps (0-1)

    Other sideboard cards that you can use are:
    Damping Sphere
    Chalice of the Void
    Leyline of the Void (even though I don't think it's needed after the ban)
    Surgical Extraction
    Warren Weirding x1
    Stingscourger x1
    Another Pashalik Mons (so you have 2 total, helps against Humans)
    Goblin Ruinblaster
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Goblins
    I would strongly disagree, and say that playing 3 Piledrivers is not a bad option at all.
    The protection from blue is very relevant, making you able to race decks like Dredge (Amalgam and Narcomoeba can't block), Urza Thopter (the thopters are blue), UR Phoenix (Thing in the Ice), Storm (both creatures can't block), and makes your UW Control matchup even better. It's pretty strong against any combo deck, which is one of Goblins' weaknesses. Also doesn't die to Plague Engineer, which is an important upside as well.
    They have to be blocked most of the time, which makes them act like a removal spell which is also a creature. It's completely nuts with Warchief.
    Edit: I would still play a Tarfire as well, pretty good Matron target if you need it and decent extra removal.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    Good job with the results! Tons of questions incoming!

    Like AmicDeep said, how is the lack of Scavenging Ooze? You only have one in your side.

    One of my biggest questions is regarding the lack of Aspect of Hydra. One of the deck's biggest strengths is the ability to close down matches one turn faster with the use of Aspect, that would otherwise be a lot more difficult to win by giving the opponent an extra turn (like against Burn, Storm, Scapeshift, etc). This is one of THE reasons to play this deck, and has been said for a long time. Not being able to alpha strike through you opponent's board and playing Aspect on the unblocked attacker is something I would really miss while playing. How are you finding playing without it? I personally think Hunger of the Howlpack is not as good by far: even though it is permanent, only being able to give a creature +3/+3, and that only being after a creature has died (so most likely after combat) seems really suboptimal and will make you play a longer game than usual.

    Other questions: Why have you not upgraded the manabase? Is it a budgetary issue? Even if you're not playing fetches, I would really suggest playing 2 Nurturing Peatland. Other than that, what about other utility lands like Hashep Oasis or Tranquil Thicket?

    Can you tell more about Savage Swipe? we have almost no information on the card, and I'm really curious to how good it is etc. Is it really that good? Wouldn't you rather have a 2/2 split with Dismember?

    How is Force of Vigor? Does it feel better/stronger than Natural State? What about the cost? How is the card 'disadvantage'?

    Have you not missed having a big creature on board, like Steel Leaf Champion?

    How is Hexdrinker?

    4 Grafdigger's Cage feels like too much, but you've already commented about that yourself.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    I would say that your list looks pretty good, but I would make place for the last 2 Dryad Militant. That card does a lot of work against a significant amount of decks. Also change the Waterlogged Grove to Nurturing Peatland if you're able. You might also want to play a Path to Exile or two main. The sideboard is pretty meta dependent, so I can only say play a lot of matches! That will also help you get a feeling of how many 1, 2 and 3-drops you want to play.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    I've updated the primer!
    Thanks everyone for the info on the newer cards, I've tried to implement it as well as I could.

    - Changed Horizon Canopy to Nurturing Peatland in card info and the basic list
    - Added Hexdrinker to card info and to the basic list (R.I.P. Rhonas)
    - Added Barkhide Troll to card info
    - Added Savage Swipe to card info
    - Added Elvish Reclaimer to suboptimal card choices
    - Added Scale Up to suboptimal card choices
    - Added Icehide Golem to suboptimal card choices lmao
    - Added Weather the Storm to sideboard cards
    - Added Return to Nature to sideboard cards
    - Added Collector Ouphe to sideboard cards
    - Added Veil of Summer to sideboard cards
    - Added Force of Vigor to sideboard cards
    - Added Damping Sphere to sideboard cards
    - Changed some minor texts in card info to keep everything up to date (Pelt Collector is not the newest addition anymore, Kalonian Tusker is now obsolete etc.)
    - Changed the Core section
    - Moved suboptimal card choices out of the card choices saction and made it its own section. I don't want this to be overlooked, so I put it more into the foreground.

    Please check it out! If you see any mistakes or text that should be updated/added, let me know!
    Also, 2 out of the 6 cards depicted in the banner at the top of the primer are now obsolete..
    Also also, Nurturing Peatland will not show the card when I hover over it with my cursor, but all the other new card do work. Does anyone know why this is?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    I'm planning to update the primer with Hexdrinker, as well as some other cards, and these are my findings so far (mostly just info about the card, but I thought people would still like to see it):

    It's good no matter which version you're running, I would start with running 2, and 3 or 4 might be optimal in a fetchless build but I am not sure on it yet (it's not that good in multiples, and in fetch builds you already have Dryad Militant and Narnam Renegade). Note that you cannot pump your Hexdrinker after it gets protection from instants, but Rancor is still fine, as long as it does not have protection from everything. Leveling it up to that while Rancor is on it will make it fall off, and go to the graveyard (and then back to your hand). It will also be good to have Vines of Vastwood open when you level it to level 3; that way the opponent has only one moment to kill it before all spot removal becomes useless against it. Note that Hexdrinker can always die due to a sacrifice effect, getting mass -X/-X or just -1/-1 counters, or mass exile effects like Settle the Wreckage (since it doesn't destroy). When it has protection from instants, most mass removal like Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict, Anger of the Gods and Damnation are sideboard cards you need to look out for, since they are usually boarded in against us.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    I put it in bold somewhere at the top of the primer, and like you said as well: do not suggest 4 drops. It's as simple as that. It has to single handedly win us the game on the spot if we want to run it, or it'd be a sideboard card that wrecks specific decks. Only two cards have really made it into the sideboard: Thrun, the Last Troll against Control, and Creeping Corrosion against Affinity (and not even everyone runs those). Other than that, 4 drops are just not for us.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    Dungrove Elder relies on Forests, so people who play that can argue against it.
    Also, people who are not on a budget should run Horizon Canopy or Nurturing Peatland over Hashep Oasis (by the way everyone, if you're not splashing white you should run Peatland because it has the very slight upside of making Dismember cost 1 less life sometimes).
    We also only run 2 Canopy lands; some people might argue for 3 (which I would not recommend), but definitely not more than that.
    The reason for that is that you do not want to hurt yourself so often, especially when you have 2 of them in your opening hand. This is very relevant against a number of decks, most notably Burn and other aggro decks that want to outrace you. Also decks like Storm and Scapeshift might be able to go off earlier if you have damaged yourself for about 5 life throughout the game.
    Short answer: we kind of do care about our life total, especially since Stompy is not as strong in the meta as it used to be.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    I think it's not good enough:

    It's not good to play on turn 1, not even turn 2. It only has 1 power, which is a red flag for our deck.
    You need to have 3 lands in your graveyard, which means you need to crack 3 fetches/canopy lands before this card gets good.
    His ability is not useful for us. It costs 2 mana, which is a lot for us, and if you want to use his ability to turn his first ability on, you still can't use him to attack since you need to tap him as well.
    We have no real utility lands that we could search for.
    In conclusion: I think he's too slow. Even if he is not awful as a topdeck late game, Hexdrinker is better in basically every way.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    I would definitely keep Scooze in the maindeck. There are so many strong graveyard decks right now that you really need them, and even against non-gy decks it can be a very powerful card.

    Also, I'm running a deck with 8 fetches for 4 Narnam Renegade. My other 1-drops are a playset of Dryad Militant and Experiment One. I would really like to implement Hexdrinker into my deck, but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm thinking about a 2/2 split with Renegade, what do you guys think? Experiment One still seems very strong, and I am not going to cut Dryad Militant for obvious reasons.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    Can you tell more about which decks you played against, and how Hexdrinker performed? Every bit of information is useful!
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    There are still a number of relatively new cards that have not been added to the primer yet.
    Damping Sphere (sideboard, maybe good enough?)
    Hexdrinker (fetchless builds)
    Savage Swipe (sideboard, maybe mainboard removal?)
    Tranquil Thicket (I don't think it's good enough)
    Collector Ouphe (sideboard)
    Weather the Storm (sideboard)
    Scale Up (also don't think it's good enough)
    Force of Vigor (sideboard)
    are all cards I'd like to have implemented in the primer before this site shuts down in July and I'll (most likely) be unable to edit the primer anymore. Are there anymore newer cards that I need to implement, either to show its appeal or to explain why it shouldn't be used?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    Isn't using 5 lands that come into play tapped a bit much for this deck, whose greatest strength comes from its speed? Cycling also costs 1 mana, which for our deck is still a significant amount of mana you're not spending on creatures/pump spells or holding up for Vines etc. I would also personally play 3-4 Rancor instead of 2, but I think that's more of a personal preference and/or local meta choice.

    If you want to know about certain tricks and tips, look in the Card Choice section of the primer on page 1. With every card, I've written useful information about that card and how it interacts in certain situations. I know I'm the one who made the primer, but I greatly recommend looking through it!
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    Quote from tokaok ยป
    Where to now?
    I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but if you mean 'how do I improve my deck from here?', I would suggest getting 8 fetchlands and playing Narnam Renegade. That card is seriously powerful and really upgrades the deck. It can make Experiment One a 3/3, it has counter synergy and the deathtouch makes it a scary card in general.

    As for Hexdrinker, it just needs to be tested a lot to see against which decks it's strong and against which it lacks, and if we want to play it (that might also differ for fetchless decks and fetch decks).
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Stompy
    Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
    Legendary Creature - Avatar
    You can't spend mana to cast this spell.

    Convoke, delve (Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 or one mana of that creature's color. Each card you exile from your graveyard pays for 1.)

    You may cast Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis from your graveyard.



    I have no idea whether this card is even remotely playable for us, but it seems hilarious if we actually can cast it. We need two creatures at the least to play him, but we normally have that, and it seems like a Ghalta that's easier to cast for us.

    EDIT: I just read that this whole forum is going to close on July 8th. It's really sad to see this place go down after so long.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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