I put it in bold somewhere at the top of the primer, and like you said as well: do not suggest 4 drops. It's as simple as that. It has to single handedly win us the game on the spot if we want to run it, or it'd be a sideboard card that wrecks specific decks. Only two cards have really made it into the sideboard: Thrun, the Last Troll against Control, and Creeping Corrosion against Affinity (and not even everyone runs those). Other than that, 4 drops are just not for us.
Dungrove Elder relies on Forests, so people who play that can argue against it.
Also, people who are not on a budget should run Horizon Canopy or Nurturing Peatland over Hashep Oasis (by the way everyone, if you're not splashing white you should run Peatland because it has the very slight upside of making Dismember cost 1 less life sometimes).
We also only run 2 Canopy lands; some people might argue for 3 (which I would not recommend), but definitely not more than that.
The reason for that is that you do not want to hurt yourself so often, especially when you have 2 of them in your opening hand. This is very relevant against a number of decks, most notably Burn and other aggro decks that want to outrace you. Also decks like Storm and Scapeshift might be able to go off earlier if you have damaged yourself for about 5 life throughout the game.
Short answer: we kind of do care about our life total, especially since Stompy is not as strong in the meta as it used to be.
It's not good to play on turn 1, not even turn 2. It only has 1 power, which is a red flag for our deck.
You need to have 3 lands in your graveyard, which means you need to crack 3 fetches/canopy lands before this card gets good.
His ability is not useful for us. It costs 2 mana, which is a lot for us, and if you want to use his ability to turn his first ability on, you still can't use him to attack since you need to tap him as well.
We have no real utility lands that we could search for.
In conclusion: I think he's too slow. Even if he is not awful as a topdeck late game, Hexdrinker is better in basically every way.
I would definitely keep Scooze in the maindeck. There are so many strong graveyard decks right now that you really need them, and even against non-gy decks it can be a very powerful card.
Also, I'm running a deck with 8 fetches for 4 Narnam Renegade. My other 1-drops are a playset of Dryad Militant and Experiment One. I would really like to implement Hexdrinker into my deck, but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm thinking about a 2/2 split with Renegade, what do you guys think? Experiment One still seems very strong, and I am not going to cut Dryad Militant for obvious reasons.
There are still a number of relatively new cards that have not been added to the primer yet. Damping Sphere (sideboard, maybe good enough?) Hexdrinker (fetchless builds) Savage Swipe (sideboard, maybe mainboard removal?) Tranquil Thicket (I don't think it's good enough) Collector Ouphe (sideboard) Weather the Storm (sideboard) Scale Up (also don't think it's good enough) Force of Vigor (sideboard)
are all cards I'd like to have implemented in the primer before this site shuts down in July and I'll (most likely) be unable to edit the primer anymore. Are there anymore newer cards that I need to implement, either to show its appeal or to explain why it shouldn't be used?
@amicdeep:
Isn't using 5 lands that come into play tapped a bit much for this deck, whose greatest strength comes from its speed? Cycling also costs 1 mana, which for our deck is still a significant amount of mana you're not spending on creatures/pump spells or holding up for Vines etc. I would also personally play 3-4 Rancor instead of 2, but I think that's more of a personal preference and/or local meta choice.
@omer301:
If you want to know about certain tricks and tips, look in the Card Choice section of the primer on page 1. With every card, I've written useful information about that card and how it interacts in certain situations. I know I'm the one who made the primer, but I greatly recommend looking through it!
I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but if you mean 'how do I improve my deck from here?', I would suggest getting 8 fetchlands and playing Narnam Renegade. That card is seriously powerful and really upgrades the deck. It can make Experiment One a 3/3, it has counter synergy and the deathtouch makes it a scary card in general.
As for Hexdrinker, it just needs to be tested a lot to see against which decks it's strong and against which it lacks, and if we want to play it (that might also differ for fetchless decks and fetch decks).
Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
5[G/B][G/B]
Legendary Creature - Avatar
You can't spend mana to cast this spell.
Convoke, delve (Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 or one mana of that creature's color. Each card you exile from your graveyard pays for 1.)
You may cast Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis from your graveyard.
Trample
8/8
---
I have no idea whether this card is even remotely playable for us, but it seems hilarious if we actually can cast it. We need two creatures at the least to play him, but we normally have that, and it seems like a Ghalta that's easier to cast for us.
EDIT: I just read that this whole forum is going to close on July 8th. It's really sad to see this place go down after so long.
Is Savage Swipe good enough to include? I would think that Titanic Brawl would be a better choice. Can you also explain your reason for having Blossoming Defense over Vines of Vastwood (is it just lower mana cost? You're lowering your damage output this way), and your cutting one Avatar of the Resolute for one Scavenging Ooze (at least in comparison to the list in the primer)?
Also, with your new optimum opening, you'd have a strong turn 2, but after that you'd just have one 4/1. While I'm still in favour of exploring this, I have a strong feeling that the 'original' optimum opening is a lot stronger than your new one.
That does look good! The fact that it starts as a 2/1 makes me have hope for this card. I'm not sure it will fit in a build that already has fetches and Narnam Renegade, but it's a very cool card nonetheless. I'm just a bit iffy on the sorcery speed of the leveling, which might be a problem (being unable so sink your unused mana into it).
Double edit: I just realized that, when you level it up, it also has protection from our own instants. Being unable to pump him when it's a 4/4 seems less desirable.
Yeah sorry about that, I forgot about the counters. Either way, I would still say that the card is definitely not good enough for us, mainly because of the sorcery speed. Like thatmarkguy said before, we don't play Might of Old Krosa, and that does have the option of being played as an instant.
The card does not make the creature lose their abilities (like in Turn to Frog).
Another problem with it is the power limit; the fact that you can't really cast it on a big Avatar of the Resolute or a Steel Leaf Champion is pretty crucial too, even if it was an instant.
The new fetchland should definitely be included (if you don't splash), and as long as it's cheaper than our current fetches it's a win for us.
Also, people who are not on a budget should run Horizon Canopy or Nurturing Peatland over Hashep Oasis (by the way everyone, if you're not splashing white you should run Peatland because it has the very slight upside of making Dismember cost 1 less life sometimes).
We also only run 2 Canopy lands; some people might argue for 3 (which I would not recommend), but definitely not more than that.
The reason for that is that you do not want to hurt yourself so often, especially when you have 2 of them in your opening hand. This is very relevant against a number of decks, most notably Burn and other aggro decks that want to outrace you. Also decks like Storm and Scapeshift might be able to go off earlier if you have damaged yourself for about 5 life throughout the game.
Short answer: we kind of do care about our life total, especially since Stompy is not as strong in the meta as it used to be.
It's not good to play on turn 1, not even turn 2. It only has 1 power, which is a red flag for our deck.
You need to have 3 lands in your graveyard, which means you need to crack 3 fetches/canopy lands before this card gets good.
His ability is not useful for us. It costs 2 mana, which is a lot for us, and if you want to use his ability to turn his first ability on, you still can't use him to attack since you need to tap him as well.
We have no real utility lands that we could search for.
In conclusion: I think he's too slow. Even if he is not awful as a topdeck late game, Hexdrinker is better in basically every way.
Also, I'm running a deck with 8 fetches for 4 Narnam Renegade. My other 1-drops are a playset of Dryad Militant and Experiment One. I would really like to implement Hexdrinker into my deck, but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm thinking about a 2/2 split with Renegade, what do you guys think? Experiment One still seems very strong, and I am not going to cut Dryad Militant for obvious reasons.
Damping Sphere (sideboard, maybe good enough?)
Hexdrinker (fetchless builds)
Savage Swipe (sideboard, maybe mainboard removal?)
Tranquil Thicket (I don't think it's good enough)
Collector Ouphe (sideboard)
Weather the Storm (sideboard)
Scale Up (also don't think it's good enough)
Force of Vigor (sideboard)
are all cards I'd like to have implemented in the primer before this site shuts down in July and I'll (most likely) be unable to edit the primer anymore. Are there anymore newer cards that I need to implement, either to show its appeal or to explain why it shouldn't be used?
Isn't using 5 lands that come into play tapped a bit much for this deck, whose greatest strength comes from its speed? Cycling also costs 1 mana, which for our deck is still a significant amount of mana you're not spending on creatures/pump spells or holding up for Vines etc. I would also personally play 3-4 Rancor instead of 2, but I think that's more of a personal preference and/or local meta choice.
@omer301:
If you want to know about certain tricks and tips, look in the Card Choice section of the primer on page 1. With every card, I've written useful information about that card and how it interacts in certain situations. I know I'm the one who made the primer, but I greatly recommend looking through it!
As for Hexdrinker, it just needs to be tested a lot to see against which decks it's strong and against which it lacks, and if we want to play it (that might also differ for fetchless decks and fetch decks).
5[G/B][G/B]
Legendary Creature - Avatar
You can't spend mana to cast this spell.
Convoke, delve (Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 or one mana of that creature's color. Each card you exile from your graveyard pays for 1.)
You may cast Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis from your graveyard.
Trample
8/8
---
I have no idea whether this card is even remotely playable for us, but it seems hilarious if we actually can cast it. We need two creatures at the least to play him, but we normally have that, and it seems like a Ghalta that's easier to cast for us.
EDIT: I just read that this whole forum is going to close on July 8th. It's really sad to see this place go down after so long.
Also, with your new optimum opening, you'd have a strong turn 2, but after that you'd just have one 4/1. While I'm still in favour of exploring this, I have a strong feeling that the 'original' optimum opening is a lot stronger than your new one.
Double edit: I just realized that, when you level it up, it also has protection from our own instants. Being unable to pump him when it's a 4/4 seems less desirable.
Another problem with it is the power limit; the fact that you can't really cast it on a big Avatar of the Resolute or a Steel Leaf Champion is pretty crucial too, even if it was an instant.
The new fetchland should definitely be included (if you don't splash), and as long as it's cheaper than our current fetches it's a win for us.