Natural State, Creeping Corrosion and Gut Shot are all good against affinity.
I personally like Life Goes On since it costs 1 and is easier to plan, but Kitchen Finks are also good to stall and is more difficult to Skullcrack.
Gut Shot is also good against infect, so I'd definitely get 2 of those in the side.
One more Scavenging Ooze in the side helps a lot as well, maybe another Tormod's Crypt? I personally like Relic of Progenitus more because of the card draw.
Maybe more creatures with deathtouch main/side? That's pretty good against Hollow One/Death's Shadow decks.
I hope this helps!
I personally really dislike the Oasis, since the pump costs 4 mana, is a single use, and most importantly, is only at sorcery speed, which makes it a lot less powerful. I would personally advise to use Horizon Canopy over it.
On the other hand, I know that people are testing it, so putting it on the bad card choice list might be a bit harsh. I'm not sure yet, but I'll definitely write the card in!
I'm planning on making more lists, don't worry! What would you say is a budget list? I would say that only Horizon Canopy, Rhonas and Scavenging Ooze are expensive enough to leave out of a budget build, but other than that there aren't many expensive cards here anyway.
I've worked a lot on card choices, did lands and most of the creatures (except the 3-drops). Please let me know what you think, if I've missed something or wrote something wrongly! Even if nothing's wrong, I'd love to get some feedback! Right now I have other things to do,but I'll continue later today.
And yes, I will put the bad card choices directly underneath the good card choices, thanks!
1) I will, but I might need some help with a reliable image source whose images I can use.
2) I was planning on making that, but rewriting the entire primer might take a while, so I'll work on one thing at a time.
3) It might be better to just remove that, since all of it is outdated and the list they played with 2 years ago (and the meta back then) has changed a lot.
I completely copied everything, so yeah. I totally agree with you; I want to make this a guide, mostly for players new to the deck. I also want to write a 'bad card choices' section, since that's where most questions come from (like the recent Old-Growth Dryads-conversation.)
I am planning on changing everything, bit by bit. Also changing the structure: I think card choices should come before splash lists. First talk about what cards are in the basic build, and then go to what you can change about it with cards people sometimes use. I would then go to other builds (CCompany builds, revolt, Hardened Scales) and splashes. Talk about the card choices there, and then move on to matchups and sideboard card choices (don't know which order yet). Lastly the bad card choices, and cards that you might want to play instead of those.
(Hardened Scales is also broken)
I do not know how much time I have in the coming days/week, but I've started working on it! I changed the basic list into something more accurate, if you think the list is wrong (especially in the sideboard), please let me know (with arguments of course)!
I haven't started writing the card choices for this, so I understand if things aren't very clear (like the Kessig Prowler main)
And yes, I would love all the help you can give!
Do you have a list I could use, along with card choices for main and side? The more information, the better!
I'm probably going to work on it some more tomorrow, since it is pretty late over here.
Also, I'm just going to edit the current primer instead of creating one from scrap; that's a lot easier for me, since I have no clue about editing. If there are parts of the text that you want to stay/leave, please let me know!
Okay, that's nice to hear! I guess I'll be taking over the primer then, if no one else replies this afternoon (Europe time). I think that the three of us working together will get a lot of work done on this!
Well, there is a basic 'core' when you talk about stompy. Some lists deviate from that, but there are a number of things you can say about the standard/starting point/basic version of stompy:
It is a mono-green aggro deck, that has a mostly painless mana base and is creature based. It uses strong creatures, pump spells and protection to negate removal spells. One of the cards this deck kind of revolves around is Aspect of Hydra. Devotion is also a theme, and games can be stolen with a well-timed Aspect. +1/+1 counters also play a role, slightly revolving around Avatar of the Resolute.
Another rule is that we do NOT use 4-drops or higher in our main, with very rare exceptions (mostly revolving around Thrun, the Last Troll when facing a meta with a lot of control decks).
We can also talk about different kinds of build.
Other than this list, there is a revolt-list and a Company-list, and there are also people who splash black or white (mostly).
There are also people who play Aspect-less, and people who play Dismember-less.
I think this can be used as a starting point when you look at stompy in general.
I'll give everyone about a day to respond to this, and if no one wants to take over, I will. (The mod wants to have this done by Monday evening.) You and my one of my friends who posts here will have to help me with the editing if I do it.
The mod asked me who wanted to take over the primer.
I personally am really invested in this, but I have no idea of how editing posts works, or anything like that. I can give a lot of information, and I actively want to help with the primer, but when it comes to editing I am completely new.
Amicdeep, I know that you want to work on it as well. WrenchMind, you too? Which one would be the best when it comes to the actual editing? That person should be the one to take over, I assume.
Anyone else who would like to contribute?
Isn't it better to run cards like Naturalize or Unravel the Aether against Chalice of the Void? I assume that deck with Chalice will put it on 1 against us, and the Prowling Serpopard might protect our creatures against that, but all of our protection, pump and Rancor are still unplayable.
Also, I haven't seen deck reports that used Apostle's Blessing in their 75. I have no idea how good it might be, so if you want to, please try it out! I'd love to hear what kind of results it brings.
The 'normal' number of Dismember mainboard is 2, and sadly Prowling Serpopard has 3 toughness, which means that is dies to Lightning Bolt versus UWr, Delver and Nahiri decks.
I think a big downside of Moldervine Cloak in comparison to Rancor is that, especially in this deck where our curve is as low as possible, if you play Cloak you need to tap all your lands, and your turn is over. Rancor is super cheap, and also gives trample, which matters a lot in this deck (since most of our creatures are already big).
Granted, I haven't tested Cloak, but I would personally prefer to keep the mana costs as low as possible, especially since you are most likely to play the auras again and again.
Your version of the deck is significantly slower than the average build, and I think if you would focus it more towards being as aggressive as possible, you would probably win more games. If you're fast enough, you can probably outrace decks like copycat and Ad Nauseam, and put the pressure on a lot of other decks.
I would get rid of all the 4+ drops (even though Vorapede is one of the coolest green cards in my opinion), maybe put Thrun in the sideboard since he's really good against UW control, play a lot less 3-drops; you have 8 now, I would go down to 5 (3 Leatherback Baloth and 2 Rhonas the Indomitable would be my personal preference, but you can go 4-1 since you have those cards already).
I would definitely play 3 Aspect of Hydra, since it can win you a game a turn early, which is super important for us. Furthermore, if you play Dismember instead of Beast Within, you can also be faster with your removal.
I would play a number of Dryad Militant, since you want to play more 1-drops, and it's one of the best you can play.
3 Creeping Corrosion side is a LOT, and I would personally play 1 max, and turn the others into Natural State, since again, it's a lot faster an hits everything affinity plays. You can also turn the Feed the Clan into Life Goes On for the same reason.
I personally like Life Goes On since it costs 1 and is easier to plan, but Kitchen Finks are also good to stall and is more difficult to Skullcrack.
Gut Shot is also good against infect, so I'd definitely get 2 of those in the side.
One more Scavenging Ooze in the side helps a lot as well, maybe another Tormod's Crypt? I personally like Relic of Progenitus more because of the card draw.
Maybe more creatures with deathtouch main/side? That's pretty good against Hollow One/Death's Shadow decks.
I hope this helps!
On the other hand, I know that people are testing it, so putting it on the bad card choice list might be a bit harsh. I'm not sure yet, but I'll definitely write the card in!
I'm planning on making more lists, don't worry! What would you say is a budget list? I would say that only Horizon Canopy, Rhonas and Scavenging Ooze are expensive enough to leave out of a budget build, but other than that there aren't many expensive cards here anyway.
Lists I want to make:
Basic list
CCompany ramp
Hardened Scales
Revolt
(Aspectless?)
White splash
Black splash
(Red splash?)
Thanks a lot for the help, I will definitely use it when I reach that part of the primer!
And yes, I will put the bad card choices directly underneath the good card choices, thanks!
2) I was planning on making that, but rewriting the entire primer might take a while, so I'll work on one thing at a time.
3) It might be better to just remove that, since all of it is outdated and the list they played with 2 years ago (and the meta back then) has changed a lot.
I completely copied everything, so yeah. I totally agree with you; I want to make this a guide, mostly for players new to the deck. I also want to write a 'bad card choices' section, since that's where most questions come from (like the recent Old-Growth Dryads-conversation.)
I am planning on changing everything, bit by bit. Also changing the structure: I think card choices should come before splash lists. First talk about what cards are in the basic build, and then go to what you can change about it with cards people sometimes use. I would then go to other builds (CCompany builds, revolt, Hardened Scales) and splashes. Talk about the card choices there, and then move on to matchups and sideboard card choices (don't know which order yet). Lastly the bad card choices, and cards that you might want to play instead of those.
(Hardened Scales is also broken)
I haven't started writing the card choices for this, so I understand if things aren't very clear (like the Kessig Prowler main)
And yes, I would love all the help you can give!
Do you have a list I could use, along with card choices for main and side? The more information, the better!
I'm probably going to work on it some more tomorrow, since it is pretty late over here.
Also, I'm just going to edit the current primer instead of creating one from scrap; that's a lot easier for me, since I have no clue about editing. If there are parts of the text that you want to stay/leave, please let me know!
EDIT: Scavenging Ooze and Prey Upon don't work properly, does anyone know why?
It is a mono-green aggro deck, that has a mostly painless mana base and is creature based. It uses strong creatures, pump spells and protection to negate removal spells. One of the cards this deck kind of revolves around is Aspect of Hydra. Devotion is also a theme, and games can be stolen with a well-timed Aspect. +1/+1 counters also play a role, slightly revolving around Avatar of the Resolute.
Another rule is that we do NOT use 4-drops or higher in our main, with very rare exceptions (mostly revolving around Thrun, the Last Troll when facing a meta with a lot of control decks).
You can also say something about a core when it comes to card choices.
The mana base is almost only Forests, with 1-2 Treetop Village and 0-2 Horizon Canopy if people can afford it. (This is a thing because our deck is mostly budget-friendly.)
I think 21 is the average number of lands people play in the basic list.
Most decks run these cards (in playsets):
Experiment One, Dryad Militant, Strangleroot Geist, Avatar of the Resolute, Scavenging Ooze(mostly 2-3 main), Leatherback Baloth (3-4).
Rancor, Vines of Vastwood, Aspect of Hydra (3-4), and mostly Dismember (2).
In general, you need to have a good reason to cut cards like these from the main/deck.
There are a number of cards that some, but not all people use. I won't list them all, but when we talk about 3-drops we can list Dungrove Elder, Boggart Ram-Gang, Groundbreaker and Rhonas the Indomitable as cards that have been used a lot (mainboard).
We can also talk about different kinds of build.
Other than this list, there is a revolt-list and a Company-list, and there are also people who splash black or white (mostly).
There are also people who play Aspect-less, and people who play Dismember-less.
I think this can be used as a starting point when you look at stompy in general.
I personally am really invested in this, but I have no idea of how editing posts works, or anything like that. I can give a lot of information, and I actively want to help with the primer, but when it comes to editing I am completely new.
Amicdeep, I know that you want to work on it as well. WrenchMind, you too? Which one would be the best when it comes to the actual editing? That person should be the one to take over, I assume.
Anyone else who would like to contribute?
Also, I haven't seen deck reports that used Apostle's Blessing in their 75. I have no idea how good it might be, so if you want to, please try it out! I'd love to hear what kind of results it brings.
Granted, I haven't tested Cloak, but I would personally prefer to keep the mana costs as low as possible, especially since you are most likely to play the auras again and again.
I would get rid of all the 4+ drops (even though Vorapede is one of the coolest green cards in my opinion), maybe put Thrun in the sideboard since he's really good against UW control, play a lot less 3-drops; you have 8 now, I would go down to 5 (3 Leatherback Baloth and 2 Rhonas the Indomitable would be my personal preference, but you can go 4-1 since you have those cards already).
I would definitely play 3 Aspect of Hydra, since it can win you a game a turn early, which is super important for us. Furthermore, if you play Dismember instead of Beast Within, you can also be faster with your removal.
I would play a number of Dryad Militant, since you want to play more 1-drops, and it's one of the best you can play.
3 Creeping Corrosion side is a LOT, and I would personally play 1 max, and turn the others into Natural State, since again, it's a lot faster an hits everything affinity plays. You can also turn the Feed the Clan into Life Goes On for the same reason.