To be clear, I don't think 4 Baubles is wrong and I don't think the blue selection cantrips are sacred cows. Basically all of them have pluses and minuses, the only sacred cows are Wraith and Scour. I definitely get the argument for 4 Baubles, especially if we want speed. It is a great card in this deck.
Opt: I only like this if the deck is operating a lot at instant speed, which right now it honestly isn't. The more Bolts I play, the more I like it, but I don't think it is good enough.
Serum Visions: I understand that people value the immediate selection, but I could make a counter argument that Shadow is the best Visions deck in the format specifically because of its play patterns. Other decks have to make sub-optimal plays, or fetch basics pre-emptively to keep the scry. Shadow fetch-shocks all the time regardless. The other big strength is Street Wraith, as you mentioned.
Sleight of Hand: A big plus I see currently is how it helps us dig specifically for Surgical on turns 1 and 2 againt Pheonix. If we are trying to play long mirrors and duals with GB and control, give me Serum Visions all day. Thats not the meta as it currently exists, though.
A 17 land deck needs cantrips. From my point of view, there are 14 slots in the deck to fill. 4 Wraith, 4 Scour, 3 Bauble are set (others will argue the 4th Scour is debatable, but I strongly disagree). Any of the above three blue options, as well as the 4th Bauble, an 18th land, and Faithless Looting are all in the running. This deck hates flooding and without Command is even worse when it floods out, so the land is a non starter for me. I wouldn't call any other selection "wrong".
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- oPoptartz
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Mar 19, 2019
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geneyquakes posted a message on Grixis Death's ShadowI have always been of the opinion that people who play less than 4 Thought Scours are just total psychopaths. Gurmag Angler is the best thing this deck does, and Thought Scour is the best enabler. Playing less than 4 makes no sense to me.Posted in: Midrange
Bauble is great, but it isn't just strictly better than the blue cantrips. People still really undervalue Snapcaster-cantrip, but Baubles don't let you do this. They also still offer selection when you draw them without fetchlands, and Serum Visions in particular is the best selection cantrip available in the format. Bauble is explosive, but the delay makes it slower and more awkward in the mid to late game.
Opt and Serum Visions are also just really, really powerful Magic cards. You don't need them to have specific, flashy reasons to "contribute to out strategy". They are part of the reason we can play 17 lands, and the reason that we can play 1- and 2-ofs in the sideboard. They improve our velocity, consistency, and threat density. The Legacy version of this is Ponder and Brainstorm, and while we have to play Street Wraith and Thought Scour for other reasons, the selection cantrips are still integral to the deck's power.
I honestly don't think you need the 18th land, and would just play a Serum Visions in that spot. It still lets you find your third land drop post-board, but it also lets you ditch lands late game or in Game 1s when you just need gas.
The bigger cantrip question for me is this: What is up with the people lately playing Sleight of Hand over Serum Visions? It has been in a number of lists lately, and I would love to hear the reasoning form someone who is using it. -
Mar 14, 2019
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geneyquakes posted a message on Grixis Death's ShadowThe problems are exactly what you would expect: It is a garbage, useless, unplayable card in a ton of matchups.Posted in: Midrange
I see the upside of the cute interactions, but none of those are worth a card.
If you just want to pay life, play a Gut Shot or Mutagenic Growth because they actually do something.
If you want to use it as a discard spell, play another Inquisition or a Rise//Fall or a Collective Brutality.
If you want to get rid of UW controls Path to Exile, then just Thoughseize them again rather than pulling them out of their deck. Alternatively, Negate, Countersquall, Dispel, Spell Pierce.
A shuffle for Bauble isn't worth a card.
Surgical against Tron is useless without Fulminator.
Probe that doesn't cantrip is awful.
Note that I am being extra critical because you went out of your way to look at the positive. There is upside, which we cannot and should not ignore, but there is also very serious downside.
Phoenix is currently maindecking Surgical, but they can honestly use it better than us because it is a free spell. This is in what might otherwise be a Gut Shot slot because they already don't need help against Noble Heirarch, and can use the boost in the mirror. Really, they are just picking the least crappy card that costs 0. Shadow has already cut back a lot on its ability to be a fair midrange deck, losing the 4th SCM, Command, and adding stuff like Faithless Looting. Adding more disadvantage and a purely situational card comes at a huge cost.
That all being said, I don't think it is a hard no at the moment. A year ago, if someone made this suggestion I would have been much more blunt, and much more confident in saying:
Absolutely not. You are bad at Magic, you don't understand how Shadow works and what makes it good, you don't understand fundamental principles of deckbuilding and gameplay. You are strictly wrong, and if you put this in your deck you are stupid
Today, I am not so sure. I am still extremely skeptical, but it depends on your metagame read. If you expect a pretty open Moden field, which in most cases tends to be correct, then leave it in the sideboard. If you legitimately expect 40 percent Phoenix, then sure, its probably right.
My other observation here is this:
If maindecking Surgical Extraction is legitimately correct, then the format is broken and something needs to be banned, full stop. -
Aug 13, 20182
Wraithpk posted a message on Grixis Death's ShadowPosted in: Midrange
Trying to out- grind control is a losing strategy. The games you beat them are mostly going to be when you shred their hand, stick an early threat, and then kill them before they find an answer.Quote from kanoe1218 »You think so? Also how do you feel about Dylan Hovey’s statemennt on 3 k-commands in the sideboard to fight control because the sorcery speed hay makers are not good enough -
Feb 20, 20185
Tiemuuu posted a message on Grixis ControlHere's the 5-0 list btw, basically I can now die as a happy man: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/951930#onlinePosted in: Control -
Oct 18, 20175
Spsiegel1987 posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)DRS may be too powerful for legacy, there's already concern it's the new target ban.Posted in: Modern Archives
DRS will never, ever, ever be unbanned in modern. We have a better chance of seeing Dig through time, Jace and SFM being unbanned at the same time than a DRS unban
DRS is an aggro, life-gain, graveyard, ramp card rolled into one. It's an outrageous card.
Punishing Fire would invalidate creature aggro. You can't unban it. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Eidolon of the great revel isn't partiularly too good in our deck since we already have enough ways to deal ourself life. But not so much just that the actual sweet spot tend to be around 9 life meaning we want to lose life to around 8 or 9 as fast as we can and then stop asap (unless we're in pure race matchups). Eidolon isn't particularly great in either case because we cannot stop the bleeding and if we want to race we have to take off an entire turn of ours to cast it which will cost us.
Claim//fame I think was tested as soon as it came out by people and pros and the consensus was that it simply was not good enough. It is too low impact of a card as it only really hits shadow which is 4 cards and hitting snap isn't all that great. I've heard that it can be decent in Traverse Shadow though since they do have 8-9 targets in their lists but even then I don't think they really play it. Kolaghan's Command does a similar thing while being a much more general card that answers a variety of things and can come in against both grindy and combo matchups.
I've been on serum almost all this time but I know someone else on a 4 bauble 2 looting build and he'd been loving it and having great success with it. I'd give it a shot. If you want opts you can try adding 1-2 extra copies of it as well (I think he cut snapcaster mage for them). I will most likely be trying them out this weekend (and his crazy sideboard which cuts Lavamancers all together)
Looting can be devastating to the hand but it's only a 2 of, and is so good in the mid-late game. And sometimes if you gotta do what you gotta do for the turn 2 angler.
I've also tried crazy builds of this deck with Monastery Swiftspear and Mutagenic Growth as a way to add more threats since that's this deck's biggest weakness. Simply put, don't do it lol. It really isn't consistent enough and if you want to run Mute growth just play Zooicide it's the much better shell for it.
Nihil is okay and slows them down a bit while also relacing itself. The card I've heard Mardu players say they do not want to face is Leyline of the Void since it really shuts down a lot of their value plan (Looting and souls become mediocre, 2 of Kommand's modes are dead, and Reveler is nigh uncastable).
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Here's a few that I have stockpiled, thanks in part to help from others.
Ben Friedman's guide: http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37401_An-Updated-Guide-To-Deaths-Shadow.html
Magnus Lantto's guide and choices for the PT: https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/9558ol/modern_card_choices_and_sbguide_for_my_pt25a/
Keep in mind Ben and Magnus have different philosophies about how they play the deck but it's still something to keep in mind. Actually a lot of players have different ways they play the deck like for instance I refuse to play the card Mishra's Bauble in any of my lists and I like playing more copies of Temur Battle Rage in the side. One you get to test more you will get a feel for what you like and what you don't.
And one of the best ways to learn a deck is to watch a pro play it (efficiently), here are some feature matches you can try to learn from as well.
vs Mardu Pyromancer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR7VvfxWx2I
vs Humans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0IkberVIWM
vs KCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaFgMt3MLvs
vs UW Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QsvNdQLLAM
vs Eldrazi Tron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ZxUc3TGjA
As for it being "good" or not that really just depends on the metagame. Previously it has not been kind to GDS at all, with pilots needing to get relatively lucky on the side of pairings because the majority of the GP and PT metas have been fairly hostile. However with the rise of a new deck, Bridgevine (River Styxx) the format may become faster to race with this deck and as a result decks like Infect, Storm, Shoal and so on may see a resurgence. All of those decks are an even to favorable matchup for GDS so it is a good sign going forward. Still since you seem to own quite a few pieces of overlap this doesn't seem like a bad deck to buy into.
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The awkward thing about Charm now in modern is that if you play against a player on Esper Goryo's them saying "Target me" might be them trying to angle shoot. There might be a situation where they have 2 Vengance's and Griselbrand in hand that they need to get online so saying "target me" is literally what they mean. Then again they might say "target me" waiting to see if you respond and if you don't they can go to draw cards because they changed their mind.
Because of this, I feel that if an opponent casts it and says "target me" that they have to discard, no questions asked. Before I respond I'll make sure to double check with a "target yourself?" for confirmation but if they say yes again then it means they want to discard.
That being said if this is like FNM or some other random weekend event then I don't really care and I know what they meant and just let them draw. It's casual, if they really want to scum me with something like that at FNM then they're only hurting themselves. FNM's are meant to be fun and it's best to try and not ruin the mood. I'd even say to an extent that GPT's and PPTQ's fall under this umbrella of being really casual.
Edit: Honestly the best thing to do is just to straight up ask them "Wait, which mode are you selecting?" to 100% clarify. If you are ever uncertain about something it's always best to get clarification from your opponent. Sometimes with all the shortcuts and fatigue we often assume too much which can lead to some awkward situations.
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The banning of Probe was only a slight nerf to infect. The deck would have been fine in that meta. The thing that really killed Infect was the printing of Push. You can ask pretty much any other infect player (I was one as well) and they will respond similarly.
Though it is interesting to think how the format would shape up if Push were not printed. I do think that the printing of Push was for the better though, as I already said more general answers is always better.
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I just wish Wizards added new cards to non-standard legal supplemental products like MM that they could also deem Modern legal. There are plenty of tame cards they could try adding like Prohibit and Opt and maybe they can even try throwing in some curveballs like Baleful Strix, Pyrokinesis and Contagion if they want. Though for more land hate they would have to create a whole new card that some people have suggested is a mix between Wasteland and Ghost Quarter. The whole issue of threats massively outweighing the answers has made the format so proactive so it wouldn't hurt to see some stuff come from the other direction.
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Let's keep innovating boys.
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Regarding TBR: I think the card is too good not to run honestly. It's a great way to push through damage vs various decks that swarm the field and can double as a removal spell vs decks like Eldrazi. Helping us race vs uninterctive combo decks is also a bit of a plus as well. I can see why some people are off of it, but that comes down to a playstyle difference, much like running Sleight of Hands in this deck does.
Regarding Anger vs. Tendrils vs. KReturn: You definitely need some number of these in your 75, especially if you are not going to run TBR. In a vacuum Anger is the best, but getting that double red is brutal. There has never ever been a situation when I have wanted double red out, and honestly there are a lot of times when I really don't even need a single red source. I've thought about tendrils for a while, but ultimately the thing that kills it for me is being Sorcery AND a 2 toughness or less killer(aka not killing amalgam). Having to tap out against dredge while leaving their Amalgams in tact is not where you want to be. This is why I opt for KReturn, while it can't kill amalgams I can at least do it at the end of their turn if I don't need to counter a conflagrate or reunion. Now if you are running the 19 land version of this deck than Anger is a lot more appealing, since you are also a bit slower of a deck.
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Also this is what Pro Immanuel Gerschenson (who finished 11-4 at GP Copenhagen) feels about TBR in Shadow decks: "I have heard from lots of people who're not very fond of Temur Battle Rage anymore. Especially in the States, folks have been cutting the card. But really, Battle Rage is the main reason to run red in the first place, and essential to racing combo decks."
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1) Do you play pure Grixis or do you splash White as your 4th colour? Plain ol' Grixis, tride and true. I.....also seemed to lose my copies of Lingering Souls so I couldn't play it even if I wanted to lol.
2) If you play pure Grixis, do you prefer 2 Watery Grave or two Blood Crypt? 2 Watery Grave, it's the best land in the deck by far. I've been tempted to go 3 grave - 1 vents - 1 crypt at times. Now if the question is between Crypt and Vents, I would probably have to lean more towards vents because more turn 1 plays are Blue. The threats are Black though so I see 2 Crypt also acceptable, especially if you run Molten Rain and Angers in the side.
3) How many Fatal Push and how many Terminate and Lightning Bolt in the maindeck? How many in the sideboard? 4 Fatal Push in the main, 1 Terminate, and 1 Dismember. 2 more Terminates in the side for stuff like Eldrazi and the mirror.
4) Do you prefer 3 Fulminator Mage or some mixture of it and Molten Rain as your land destruction package? I'm not really a fan using this type of land destruction in our deck, so I have more counters in the side and Temur Battle Rage. 3 mana cards to hit a land seems so slow, even if you can Kommand/Snap it back. I would rather just race since this deck has the potential to do so. So I guess technically TBR is my anti-big mana deck strategy.
5) Can you find RR to cast Anger Of The Gods? Do you like the card or Damnation? I could definitely see myself getting RR for post board games but I would much rather have out double Watery Grave than anything. Damnation also seems like a fine choice, though it seems more awkward for this deck opposed to Grixis Control.
6)What do you like more in the Grixis version than the other ones(Jund, Junk, Esper, Shardless, etc)? Other than the fact that this version only cost me less than 50 bucks to finish, it's obviously the blue cards. While we don't get 8 copies of Shadow, we do get access to 8 one mana dude bro beat sticks and half are immune to Fatal Push! Cantrip Dark Ritual is nuts. Oh yeah, Snapcaster Mage and Stubborn Denial are also pretty decent cards and totally not insane in the brain or anything.
7) What's your MD card you side out more often? Toss up between Push and IOK depending on the MU.
If you don't run Liliana, the Last Hope in your side what cards are currently replacing it? I currently am running a Kolaghan's Command and Izzet Staticaster in place of Liliana currently. I will look to pick up my copies after they rotate out of standard.
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As far as first impressions go, I must say this deck really takes me back to the good old days of UR Treasure Cruise Delver. It really had the feel of the deck just minus the couple permission spells that the deck played (not that this deck needs permission in the main). Swiftspear was amazing, and they can punch through for quite a bit of damage. Since I only had 1 TiTi main I really didn't get to test it much, but I think it's fine (and as Sam Black said it just feels like a worse Young Pyromancer). The only card that I really didn't like was Faithless Looting, as the card was straight disadvantage everytime. Maybe the card is really good and the inner storm player in me just hates it since the card is counter-intuitive to the game plan of amassing lots of spells together. Regardless, I will be shaving a copy, and possibly another for more copies of Forked Bolt and/or may try to add more TiTi to the main because they seem fine there. Not sure if that will be too many threats but I will be willing to try it. Reveler was a bit disappointing, most likely since I was hoping it would be a lot like Treasure Cruise, which it is not at all sadly. I think 2-3 copies in this deck is fine vs. the grindy decks but might not be worthy of including in the main deck.
Anyway deck is great, feels like the child of UR Storm and UR Cruise Delver so I love it.