2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Xeruh »
    I mean, at best what you should be advocating for is more PoC instead of calling the Queen out of place, because you're in a thread where people are calling her out of place because Eldraine should be white people only. At worst you're being disingenuous or other negative traits with your argument and it's just an attempt to mask the insincerity.

    And there isn't any reason for backstory because the intent is to not treat it as a special thing. Different people will respond to that in different ways, but making a huge deal about it isn't something that would be met with positive acclaim either. It's pretty close to a no win situation.


    This is a special thing. It’s a legendary card. She is a queen. Married to the King. Who is the father of our 2 main characters. All 3 or which do not share similar characteristics. Is it a big deal? Yeah, it kind of is. My point, again, that “‘Cuz Fantasy” just doesn’t cut it. Beyond the fact that there is source material, there is also actual real world implications. Black people aren't black just because that’s the way it is.

    If there isn’t a reason for her existence, then why does she? Being able to relate doesn’t just go skin deep. Then, peeps like my daughter could have an actual reason to gravitate towards her.

    So, you wrote that but you expected us to interpret it in this context as something other than "I want my fantasy card game to be all white people"? C'mon.


    For real? So saying fantasy shouldn’t dip too much into realism means I wish it was all white? Was it because I took issue with the point of this character being “needed”? As that means it’s forced? I think that spin would give sir mix-a-lot a run for his money.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from H3RAC71TU5 »
    [quote from="Buffsam89 »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/814047-eld-mothership-spoilers-9-16-queen-linden-and-her?comment=69"]Please, I beg you, call me a racist. No need to tiptoe around me with that nonsense. I’ll go to bat for my beliefs and not be shouted down by anybody. You shamed the other user for refusing to engage, you will not get that same luxury here.


    Well, I'd like to applaud you for your conviction. It goes without saying I consider it misguided, but it's something. I would venture to say you could even be a good man, if only you chose a better principle to live by than "adamantly maintain at all costs that I'm totally not racist." So don't go saying I never gave you any credit. Wink

    That said, there's no tiptoeing going on here. Just asserting that you're racist is not how it works. The personal biases or prejudices that you may or may not have against PoC is kind of small fry compared to the bigger issue: whether the argument you're making is racist. Excessive focus on whether an individual is racist misses the important relationship between the underlying ideas being expressed and the systems in place in society.

    Why be ok with just a sprinkle of PoC if you’re so adamant that this is fantasy and you can make that whatever you wish? Why not give relevant back story as to how a singular black woman was able to achieve royalty status and become knighted in the 4 courts, as she is clearly of a minority race on her own home plane? @gutterstorm makes a valid point, but not in the way they had expected. They could literally be any color, so what is the significance here? Why not a Latino? Asian? Or anything in between? What separates her from her peers?
    I can assure you that PoC would choose relevance over existence. I’m glad your ok with simply making sure the boxes are checked, but I’m not.
    Again, sh***y human beings, all of you. Hell, you judged me and you don’t even know me. That tells me all I need to know about you.


    Now, when you went to say that your ideal fantasy world meant no black people, then maybe you were being just a little overconfident about your ability to stand your ground...


    Ah yes. More character assassination based purely on assumptions. Please, point to where I said this. I’ll be more than happy to wait.

    You see, I’m a 30 something White male. What I also am is a father of 2 children, one of which is a 7yo stepdaughter who is black. We live in a small town, mostly white peeps. She just started second grade and is currently the only child in her grade that is “caramel” as she calls it.

    A few things I’ve experienced first hand, that I’m 100% certain none of you SJW’s(yeah, flag me) have ever had to experience is trying to explain to a 7yo why she isn’t white. Why all of her friends are white. Why all of the things she likes feature mostly white people. She has 2 Disney princesses to choose from, or she immediately questions if she should be that character for Halloween or not. My 7yo has chosen to be Minnie Mouse. She could have been Moana, or that one from Princess and the frog, but she chose Minnie Mouse. She adores the other Disney princesses, so the only reason I can assume she chose neither is because she feels she can’t. Why does she get 2 choices?

    Same here, how is “normal” 4 choices(sorry sap, like 3 of those are actually recognizable as PoC, the others are for sure reaches). You took the opportunity to make female Knights feel normal(coincidently, they are all White) by pushing them hard enough into your fantasy setting that it feels normal. Why not do the exact same with PoC?

    I’m done. You people go right ahead and sit up there on your high-horses. Cool beans. But you don’t know me. You don’t know who I am. And you certainly don’t know the life I’ve lied. So go ahead and be fine with a this showing here. I guarantee if my daughter was old enough, she would be underwhelmed with the showing of people who share her characteristics.

    <snip>
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    This is hilarious.

    So, normal is, in a world full of Fae, Giants, Elves, etc., there is exactly one black woman who is Queen? That’s out of place. There is no context. Where the hell did she come from? If she was a purple elf, and there were no other elves present, I would be asking the same damn question.

    So to reiterate, for those in the back, where the f*** are the rest of the people that share her characteristics? That’s the point. That is what leads me to believe she is only there to check a damn box. In what world is there exactly one person who looks/acts as they do?

    Color aside, let’s say she speaks freaking French. Would that make a lick of sense? I’d want to know why.

    My question isn’t why is she black, it’s why is she the only black person depicted in this set. That’s normal? There’s what, ~250 cards in this set? It’s normal to reserve 1-3 card slots for art with PoC? By my count, there exactly 3 that clearly depict a PoC in the art. None in crowds.

    You people sit up here and bang the drum of “good job wizards”, yet I’m like, ok you could’ve done more. You don’t normalize anything by introducing in small doses. Give this women some staying power here. Give her a reason to exist.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Boreez »
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    Again, sh***y human beings, all of you. Hell, you judged me and you don’t even know me. That tells me all I need to know about you.


    You truly have been on the receiving end of some pretty big injustices here. I'm just sitting here shaking my head at what you had to go through. If there's anything I can do, let me know. You've been through some s****y stuff on this thread page, been judged and whatnot. Shame on all these people. Shame on them.


    Thank you, your thinly veiled sarcasm truly adds to this discussion. I mean, by all accounts, you truly are a beacon of support here and we should all learn a thing or two from it.

    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    @gutterstorm makes a valid point, but not in the way they had expected. They could literally be any color, so what is the significance here? Why not a Latino? Asian? Or anything in between? What separates her from her peers?


    No actually that’s exactly the point I was making. Her race isn’t relevant. It’s not relevant to her individual character or any tropes she could be portraying. The same way it’s fine to have female knights because gender isn’t relevant to them or the dictions that inspire them. They could be any race, gender or sex and it wouldn’t matter. It’s not like, because she’s dark skinned she’s been through the same thing black people in our world have. I’m not going to go into the ridiculousness of “representation other than to say that if you need someone to look like you in order to empathize with their struggles and journey or to think that you could achieve similarly then that’s a deficiency in you and no one else. Skin color doesn’t matter.


    So this makes the point I was making. I’m not saying that she needs a tragic backstory. But, is it not reasonable to ask why she is who she is? She is a legendary creature after all. There has to be a reason they chose a black woman to be the Twins step-mother, meaning she’s queen. Married to a white man. I’m not suggesting there be incredible detail, but you’ve chosen to cross a handful of barriers, there should be a level of significance to it. If you’re cool with checked boxes, that’s fine. But, I can assure you that’s not the same as respresentation.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Please, I beg you, call me a racist. No need to tiptoe around me with that nonsense. I’ll go to bat for my beliefs and not be shouted down by anybody. You shamed the other user for refusing to engage, you will not get that same luxury here.

    Why be ok with just a sprinkle of PoC if you’re so adamant that this is fantasy and you can make that whatever you wish? Why not give relevant back story as to how a singular black woman was able to achieve royalty status and become knighted in the 4 courts, as she is clearly of a minority race on her own home plane? @gutterstorm makes a valid point, but not in the way they had expected. They could literally be any color, so what is the significance here? Why not a Latino? Asian? Or anything in between? What separates her from her peers?

    I can assure you that PoC would choose relevance over existence. I’m glad your ok with simply making sure the boxes are checked, but I’m not.

    <snip>
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Ah, yes, PoC will surely hang their hat on this achievement, being represented on a single card, without any context, in a TCG designed for tweens. Present them their participation trophy and call it a day, #winning.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Mothership spoilers 9/16— Queen Linden and her retinue
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    It boggles my mind that people are so stuck on this. Her skin color literally doesn’t matter. They could have made her green with purple spots and it wouldn’t have made a difference. Her skin color is not relevant to her character or story arc. For the love of god people just let it go.


    Yup. And it's pretty disheartening to come to this site which for years has been a great forum to discuss Magic spoilers and to be presented with some bigot's unwanted hot takes about how diversity is bad and its ruining muh Magic the Gathering. There are countless places where you can go and be racist on the internet but this isn't one of them.


    It’s also pretty disheartening to associate some of those comments with someone being a racist. If anything, that’s more annoying than the hot takes. Oh, you don’t see how this can be possible because source material? Racist. Don’t understand the role of the character? Racist. I love it. All of you guys high-fiving and doing victory laps for calling somebody racist, on the internet. Good for you.

    For instance-

    I think or at least hope WOTC sees discussions like this and realizes exactly why a character and card like this are needed.


    I don’t see why they are needed. This makes it sound forced, and inevitably leads to “token” status. @highholder makes a valid point, though you can not determine ethnicity through suits of armor. It is a perfectly reasonable to ask how this character came to be in this setting.

    Then there are those using the “‘cuz fantasy” to explain it away. Well, to me, fantasy is used to sever ties with reality. Injecting realism via PC “checkboxes” crushes that in totality. I’m not saying they shouldn’t do this, but as mentioned above, you end up creating “token” characters just to please the masses. That’s not creativity, that’s being lazy.

    <snip>
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on ELD - Fabled Passage
    Quote from Mishotem »
    Quote from mu1000 »
    It's vastly better than Evolving Wilds, of course. In decks that don't play 1-drops there is basically no tempo-loss playing Fabled Passage.


    The exact same thing would apply to Evolving Wilds in that case...


    Except for drawing Evolving Wilds late game?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Beating a dead horse: Tutors in commander
    My complaint here is that an average budget green/blue ramp deck can typically outperform an optimal non-green non-combo deck. This is mainly due to greens tutor ability to cheat lands in to play, and the sheer volume of ramp tutors available making for obnoxious consistancy.


    Whoa, no stepping out just yet there bud. Why are we choosing UG?

    I know why. It’s because that is the best color for card advantage. You’re getting buried in CA, so you associate that with a player having more lands than you. You aren’t losing to Ramp, you’re losing to decks that out-tempo you.

    You won’t accept this response, but this is really what you have a problem with. This has nothing to do with Rampant Growth lol.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [ELD] the professors preview (tolarian community college) - Realm-Cloaked Giant
    Quote from BigGrizzy »
    This will be the sixth board wipe in 2020 Standard, and it has advantages over the other five. Citywide Bust only hits big creatures and Ritual of Soot only hits small creatures. Kaya's Wrath and Time Wipe are multicolored. Planar Cleansing costs more and kills planeswalkers as well, which is awkward in many control decks. This does have a big downside, if I am understanding adventures correctly, that it is only counted as a sorcery on the stack, and therefore can't be found by Augur of Bolas or Narset. I am not a good control player, so I don't know how to balance these, but it certainly seems like it is in the conversation.


    Can I just add some clarity here.

    I am not saying this is a bad board wipe. I’ve gone so far as to say it’s par for the course in nuStandard. However, that does not make this a card worth a Mythic slot.

    The card isn’t the problem, the rarity is. You just listed ‘wipes that are all comparable, either costing less with restrictions or costing more but killing more. This falls into the same category. It’s also not leaving behind a body, it’s leaving behind an expensive, vanilla, creature spell. So one side of the spell is certainly a rare-worthy card. The other half is most certainly not. For a card like this, I’d expect some form of synergy between the 2 abilities. There really isn’t any here, which is why I am incredibly puzzled by the rarity.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] the professors preview (tolarian community college) - Realm-Cloaked Giant
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    This card is mythic for literally the same reason that wakening sun's avatar was mythic.

    Any creature with a board wipe tacked on is mythic nowadays.


    But this isn’t tacked on. It’s 13 mana, albeit spread across a few turns, for a “wrath tacked on”.

    I understand that standard wrath’s are now 5-CMC, but, most have upsides, not downsides. Regardless of how many giants exist, you’re still potentially missing something with the wrath. The creature is too vanilla.

    It’s just not Mythic worthy. Maybe if the Adventure was 6cmc at instant speed with the same vanilla body attached, but as is, just don’t like it at all.


    It reminds me a lot of Part the Waterveil, actually, in terms of what you're getting for the cost. I think the major issue with it isn't its design so much as the fact that it's a white card in a top-down, low powered set leading into a potentially slower meta. In the abstract, wiping the board and then getting a big body a turn or two later - from the same card - is actually solid value. The ultimate question isn't "is this a good card?" so much as "is there a place for this?", but the general proportions of it certainly do seem mythic, to me at least.


    This is the last bit I’m going to give on this. I’ve said my piece, ‘it’s what it ‘tis. For 8-Mana, you’re left with a hasty, albeit smaller body. They are effectively the same thing.

    You may want to have the creature later, and that’s fine. But, that doesn’t change the fact that this effect has been done before at rare, and a few instances at that. And, the effect at Mythic has been done before and pushed a bit harder.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] the professors preview (tolarian community college) - Realm-Cloaked Giant
    This card is mythic for literally the same reason that wakening sun's avatar was mythic.

    Any creature with a board wipe tacked on is mythic nowadays.


    But this isn’t tacked on. It’s 13 mana, albeit spread across a few turns, for a “wrath tacked on”.

    I understand that standard wrath’s are now 5-CMC, but, most have upsides, not downsides. Regardless of how many giants exist, you’re still potentially missing something with the wrath. The creature is too vanilla.

    It’s just not Mythic worthy. Maybe if the Adventure was 6cmc at instant speed with the same vanilla body attached, but as is, just don’t like it at all.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] the professors preview (tolarian community college) - Realm-Cloaked Giant
    I 1000% disagree that this is “mythic worthy”.

    This is still an overcosted wrath withbuilt in drawback, stapled to an overcosted beater with no evasion.

    If this was a true Day of Judgement and the creature had something a bit more relevant in terms of pressure/survivability, sure, but as is, this isn’t a very good mythic.

    For reference, we have Bonecrusher Giant, which seems more deserving of a mythic spot than this.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Malditos nerd preview - blacklance paragon
    The fact that this gains life is what pushes it to the rarity it is IMO.

    Granted, it’s also an all upside 3 power black creature, so it is already a bit undercosted body as is. Being able to “trade” with a trampling behemoth, most likely a finisher, is super powerful.

    I really like the design of this card.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [ELD] Ladee danger preview cards
    Mill keeps getting tools, will they be enough to make it good?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.