Thoughts on surgical extraction in the 75? Its an instant that triggers prowess for free as well as disrupting our opponents game plan. I like this a lot because sometimes mutagenic growth can be overkill and Id rather save that for combat where it can be more relevant.
Gut Shot is a better alternative to Mutagenic than Surgical. I do think a split between Gut Shot and Mutagenic is the way to go. Running 4 Mutagenic like you do (if I'm not mistaken) will lead you to some awkward hands.
it hasn't hurt me yet! I prefer mutagenic over gut shot because I can use mutagenic to protect my creatures from bolt/pyroclasm/anger/dismember/combat damage. Its a more flexible spell than gutshot in my opinion. I appreciate the thought of it however, it can be a little more proactive than muta at times.
Thoughts on surgical extraction in the 75? Its an instant that triggers prowess for free as well as disrupting our opponents game plan. I like this a lot because sometimes mutagenic growth can be overkill and Id rather save that for combat where it can be more relevant.
How many lands to people think are ideal? I was thinking about 20?
Also what are peoples thoughts on Wandering Fumarole? Maybe a 1 or 2 of in the 20?
20 is far too many. I have been having success at 17 but I feel that 18 might be more correct. I have 14 cantrips in my deck, hence the low land count.
Interesting take on repeal. To counter things like abrupt decan an the ilk Ive been running apostle's blessing. Protection counters removal, chumps a fatty, and can make us unblockabe. I would highly suggest it to anyone going the aggro route.
Gut shot is also interesting to me. Why not play the full set of mutagenic?
How about some constructive discussion. I've been looking at testing distortion strike and lava spike at some point. Lava spike gives us lots of speed and gets around skite. Distortion strike gives us great damage and evasion. It feels like 4 prowess triggers on one card if you have a prowess guy on the board.
Biggest reason not to run lava spike is the lack of interaction the card has. Biggest reason not to run distortion strike is that we need a board for it to be good.
What are your thoughts? I'm a big fan of apostles blessing right now myself.
Ok, playing with prowess guys and pyromancer and I have a question:
When you have some of them on board and some other in hand, how do you sequence your istant/sorceries? Do you fire them off all in a single big turn to gain more value from them (more pyromancer triggers, more prowess triggers) or do you aggressively use them on curve, to fire off more damage early, at the expense of less triggers?
For example if we have in hand:
Swiftspear, Pyromancer, Stormchaser, Delver and 3 cmc 1 spell. Let's assume you draw: land, 1cmc spell, land, land Turn 1: Correct choice is probably Delver Turn 2 [delver flips]:
A) Swiftspear + Spell n°1: you net 3(delver) +1(swiftspear) +1(prowess) damage = 5 Turn 3:
a) Stormchaser + Spell n°2 = 3(delver) +1(swiftspear) +1 (Stormcaser) + 2(prowess) damage = 5 + 7 = 12 Turn 4: Pyromancer + Spell n°3 = Stormchaser + Spell n°3 = 3(delver) +1(swiftspear) +1 (Stormcaser) + 2(prowess) damage = 7 + 12 = 19 + Token
b) Pyromancer + Spell n°2 = 3(delver) +1(swiftspear) +1(prowess) = 4 + 5 = 9 + Token Turn 4: Stormchaser + Spell n°3 = 3(delver) +1(swiftspear) +1(stormchaser) +2(prowess) +1(token) +2(pyromancer) = 10+9 = 19 + 2 Tokens
Turn 2:
B) Pyromancer: 3(delver) = 3 Turn 2: C) Stormcaser: 3(delver) = 3
I let scenarios with Turn 2 Pyromancer or Stormchaser to you, guys.
What I wanted to point out is that some sequencings are more explosives: T2a > T3a nets you 12 damages in T3, while T2a > T3b nets you only 9 damage in T3
Turn 4 they both lead you to deal 19 damages, but the less explosive one nets you a token more.
T2b expecially would probably be the slowest one, netting however much more pyromancer triggers and tokens
So, how do you sequence your plays to maximize the effectiveness?
In my experience, every situation is different and calls for a different action. Sometimes you can't curve out the way you'd like to because you have to play around removal or counters.
I would say that generally I have had greater success dropping YP over Storm Chaser. YP is weak and you can respond to removal and still get value. ScM is a much more dangerous threat and it gains us no value if killed. we can also swing with both of them on turn 4 if you play YP first as well as having those tokens to block with. Playing YP first instead or ScM is the most value gaining play in my opinion.
As far as delver over swift spear, I'm undecided. You can protect MSS with mutagenic from turn one forward, but delver gives us more value on turn one. I think the turn one play should be evaluated based on what you have in your hand, the matchup, and perhaps the result of your scry off mulligan.
In any event, maintaining tempo is the most important. If your opponent threatens discard, you may want to rush out a ScM and make use of your cards up asap. If they threaten a board wipe, You may want to hold onto your YP so that you can recover quickly.
Hope I helped answer your question, and I really appreciate the thought put into this. I think the community would really benefit from your research even more if you looked into the most efective lines of play against the new eldrazi deck and other decks that will be common in the new meta.
Also, first post in the thread. I've been lurking sense post ban of treasure cruise. I've been on grixis delver and post-ban UR delver. Happy to be here and I look forward to seeing where the new prowess beater will take us.
sorry if this is poorly formatted, but its what I'm running right now. Haven't had too much testing with it to tweak against metas but it does well enough in cockatrice.
I like it because it gives you infinite 1/1 blockers. The extra mana helps a lot too, being able to caste cryptic and scapeshift with only 7 lands out feels really good.
it hasn't hurt me yet! I prefer mutagenic over gut shot because I can use mutagenic to protect my creatures from bolt/pyroclasm/anger/dismember/combat damage. Its a more flexible spell than gutshot in my opinion. I appreciate the thought of it however, it can be a little more proactive than muta at times.
20 is far too many. I have been having success at 17 but I feel that 18 might be more correct. I have 14 cantrips in my deck, hence the low land count.
Gut shot is also interesting to me. Why not play the full set of mutagenic?
Biggest reason not to run lava spike is the lack of interaction the card has. Biggest reason not to run distortion strike is that we need a board for it to be good.
What are your thoughts? I'm a big fan of apostles blessing right now myself.
I would say that generally I have had greater success dropping YP over Storm Chaser. YP is weak and you can respond to removal and still get value. ScM is a much more dangerous threat and it gains us no value if killed. we can also swing with both of them on turn 4 if you play YP first as well as having those tokens to block with. Playing YP first instead or ScM is the most value gaining play in my opinion.
As far as delver over swift spear, I'm undecided. You can protect MSS with mutagenic from turn one forward, but delver gives us more value on turn one. I think the turn one play should be evaluated based on what you have in your hand, the matchup, and perhaps the result of your scry off mulligan.
In any event, maintaining tempo is the most important. If your opponent threatens discard, you may want to rush out a ScM and make use of your cards up asap. If they threaten a board wipe, You may want to hold onto your YP so that you can recover quickly.
Hope I helped answer your question, and I really appreciate the thought put into this. I think the community would really benefit from your research even more if you looked into the most efective lines of play against the new eldrazi deck and other decks that will be common in the new meta.
Also, first post in the thread. I've been lurking sense post ban of treasure cruise. I've been on grixis delver and post-ban UR delver. Happy to be here and I look forward to seeing where the new prowess beater will take us.
you're right, I was thinking of Bring to Light. My bad!
If you gift for firespout it will deal 0 damage, Same with Radiant flames.
4 Remand
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Anticipate
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
4 Island
3 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
4 Cryptic Command
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Explore
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Pyroclasm
3 Peer Through Depths
1 Farseek
1 Electrolyze
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Inferno Titan
2 Dispel
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Electrolyze
1 Negate
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Glen Elendra
2 Hurkyl's Recall
sorry if this is poorly formatted, but its what I'm running right now. Haven't had too much testing with it to tweak against metas but it does well enough in cockatrice.