MTG Salvation

I agree that the bubble for PW-centric cards will likely burst, but there's still a good 1-2 months left for those values to inflate. Strix can be re-printed (for the 7th time) in MH, so I'd definitely suggest ditching your copies while folks are still willing to pay $10 a pop. However, Zen fetches will not be in MH or any set within the foreseeable future, so selling now would be extremely premature IMO. Tarn may have hit/come close to it's all time high, but the others have just started making their way up to new highs. Even in the most conservative scenario where one thinks MH might introduce a land cycle that somehow makes fetches less desirable, I wouldn't begin to think about offloading them until the week or so before spoilers are set to debut.

If it weren't for the three Modern GPs in March and Modern Horizons on the horizon (ba-dum tss), this sort of announcement, lacking any information regarding the overall format, would be disappointing. However, there's honestly no point in announcing bans/unbans or relaying thoughts on the current meta when 250 new-to-modern cards are about to be dumped into the card-pool; the sheer number of cards introduces a metric *****-load of new variables that will almost surely re-shape the metagame into something that will look much different than it does today. Sure, current T1 archetypes likely won't fall off the face of the Earth or anything, but unless all of those 250 cards end up being absolute garbage (highly unlikely), there will be an exciting period of uncertainty in Modern while players brew/experiment with their new toys.

Think back over the last 3-5 years of Modern and recall all the instances when the addition/removal of a single card/new-found strategy impacted the format (e.g. Death's Shadow, Twin/Pod ban, Dredge-enablers, Hollow One, Arclight, Push, etc); now extrapolate that to include 250 cards coming directly from Legacy's card pool or designed specifically with Modern's power level in mind. Even if 200 of those cards end up being draft fodder and/or "unplayable", we're still looking at a major meta shakeup post-horizons.

It's a 4cmc spell, it can be countered, Totem armor auras aren't sure fire draws, not all Modern decks are built to win using creatures, we often have to aggressively mulligan as is, etc. It's essentially the same reasoning why we don't play a lot of cards; the game plan is to play a hexproof guy, use auras to make that guy bigger, win via beatdown or opponent scooping to Daybreak and do it before your opponent can execute their game plan. Wrath of God doesn't help accomplish that plan nor is it necessary, be it SB or MB.

Quote from headminerve »

They said at the beginning of the stream the blue card they had in mind was super powerful and wanted to keep it for later. It probably means it's a card that saw play and was proven strong (so they can evaluate it properly), not a new card. If I take a look at what blue cards define Legacy, the only one I see acceptable is Daze, but TNN is in the realm of possibility as well.

Daze would help GDS play their Watery Graves again, probably pushing the deck on top again. That's a risk.
TNN would push Merfolk in Tier 1 status for sure (maybe other tempo decks too), but would also make a weird limited environment. If they chose to add this creature, there has to be some Innocent Blood / Diabolic Edict or Toxic Deluge in the set as well.

It's easy to dismiss all the fast mana, under any form (Elvish Spirit Guide, Ancient Tomb, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell, Sneak Attack), but there might be cards in the vein of Cabal Therapist instead, like Cabal Ritualist or Lotus Looter and whatnot. The reason is that they obviously balanced the risks and rewards of each inclusion, then when we see how long they take before unbanning SFM, they wouldn't dare reprint busted accel, right ?

In the same vein, tutors are out of the question (Natural Order, all cards with "tutor" in their name), except midrange stuff like Recruiter of the Guard.

On the whole, I think that's pretty reasonable and fair when looking at the format as a whole. However, they essentially said that some inclusions were made with particular decks/archetypes in mind. Therefore, I could definitely see an Enlightened Tutor reprint as works on two different fronts; it'd be a welcome addition to niche enchantment-relevant archetypes (e.g. Bogles) while also helping to give White some more options and boost that part of the color pie.

On the topic of baseless speculation, what do we all think about the potential for Sylvan Library entering Modern? Initially, I chalked it up as busted, but the more I think about it the more convinced I am that it wouldn't break the format or cause any major disruptions (aside from blue players again having to see Green get superior card draw).

In regards to whether or not this will be a one-off set or regular installment, I think that will ultimately depend upon player reception and the impact this initial set ends up having on the format over an extended period of time. I can see arguments being made for both sides. On one hand, I don't think WotC (and especially players) want yearly sets that directly affect the meta-game and task WotC with regular micromanagement. On the other hand, there's a reason why players have, for so long, been asking for this type of set; Modern needs answers and a number of those answers aren't suitable for a Standard environment. Seeing as how this set is composed of something like 250 cards, that's a ***** ton of new cards being injected into the Modern card pool and one reason why I think a yearly installment wouldn't only be unlikely , but probably unnecessary. However, I think there's a non-zero chance that this is the only time we'll see a set/supplemental product/etc that introduces new/"old new" cards into the format; WotC will set a precedent with this set and that can of worms cannot be shut. IMO this set will be WotC's attempt to right the Modern ship by giving players needed answers and in some sense "future-'proof" the format.

Quote from cfusionpm »

Baseless speculation and price spikes on Legacy staples in 3... 2... 1...

If we're playing the finance game, I'll put my money on fetches jumping first. Especially if this set really won't contain any Modern reprints.

Btw, around the 22 min mark they teased out the existence of a blue card that was referred to as "the top dog" and therefore withheld from being a preview card; any thoughts on what that might be? Seeing how this announcement was scripted, I suppose the comment could've simply been made to hype the set and the card turns out to be Scornful Egotist, but if we're taking it at face value then there are only a handful of possibilities that could fall under that designation, IMO.

Quote from Crimson Lancer »

No reprints whatsoever; I'll be readying my collection for sale some time this year if WotC is planning on giving Modern the Legacy treatment....

...I'll buy your fetches. Those suckers are going to explode since they already confirmed the reprints will be pre-8th edition.

Quote from cfusionpm »

I don't know why anyone has any hope of Modern ever coming to Arena. They have repeatedly said it's not a priority and is not happening any time soon. It is a monumental coding and animating task. There is no good way to make the cards available and distribute them in the current model without massive wastes of resources. It's not happening, and hypothesizing about the ways they could do it is just an exercise in frustrating futility. We might as well go back to talking about Twin coming back if we're going to discuss things that should happen, but never will.

Baseless speculation?! Happening in this thread? Well, I'd never...

WotC can't even update Gatherer with Pauper legality, so I naturally assumed that adding 16 years worth of cards into Arena was just behind "Reserved List Masters" on WoTC's to-do list. However, part of me is still hopeful that MTGO will someday be natively supported on Mac, so I suppose I'm not completely free of delusional thoughts lol

If you intend to pick them up eventually, I'd pull the trigger now. Yeah, the price might go down a few more bucks, but once it plateaus and begins the upswing, it'll be too late.

Quote from tronix »

Quote from The Fluff »

It's just a part of the life cycle of thread. Discussions flow smoothly for days or a few weeks, then twin would be revisited one way or the other. Although I'm surprised it came back with a lot of intensity today.

in fairness it wasnt out of the blue. that whole bit in the TCC + Blake Rassmusen + Steve Sunu 'fact/fiction' interview about twin was a ****-up. the fact that it was a user/player submitted question, the way it was phrased, it being selected as something worth talking about, and the subsequent almost dismissive and unrelated response.

it just highlights how naive the community has and continues to be, and goes to show why wizards employees are often better served not saying anything at all lest it be blown out of proportion after being put under a microscope. 2 guys who likely have minimal to no say in ban/unban decisions, one of which openly said he wasnt even there when the twin ban decision was made (Steve), giving an unrelated and opinionated answer to a loaded question isnt some special insight to be used as proof/evidence of anything.

Truth. I was tired of the Twin pouting shortly after it happened, which was what almost 4 years ago now? However, that interview resurrected the topic and made it a relevant topic of discussion again (well, in other sectors of the community anyhow. We know the discussion here is always looming). I'm still wondering why WotC even chose to open that can of worms willingly; the questions were screen and approved beforehand, so they must've thought that two tool bags *****ting on Twin would get some laughs or they're just tone deaf. Either way, that interview actually made me somewhat grateful that WotC is terrible at communicating with players; if those two bone jobs are representative of the PR department as a whole, I'll gladly accept silence over the snarky remarks of those smug jagoffs.

Quick tip for anyone who's itching to crack some UMA boosters, but also unwilling to pay an exorbitant mark up at the lgs. Stopped into GameStop today for a non-mtg related purchase and walked out with two of the 3 pk blisters. Manager said he wasn't surprised they lasted this long as the only time folks come in for cards are when they're running a sale.

Obviously this won't be the case everywhere, but it's worth peeking you're head in. Package marked $37 but came up $32, presumably due to the GameStop loyalty card discount.

Am I the only one who, when looking at this set, think "man, I really wish this was a Standard set"?

Quote from Ym1r »

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Doesn't Kess hurt the Grixis decks? She allows your opponent to just play removal for her, no? Am I missing something here?

Not exactly sure what you mean. The effect is not symmetrical so that's no problem. And if you mean that, because you have a creature, it enables your opponent's removals, whereas otherwise they would be dead cards, that's only partially true. Considering that you can par her with discard, or you can have FoN up when you cast her.

You also don't necessarily have to cast her on curve (i.e. T4). Imho she actually works as a finisher snapcaster. She basically allows you to re-buy cards and, as a result, snapcasters (since you can reuse your K.Commands) much more efficiently than Tasigur which was often the finisher of choice.
In addition, she allows you to play your snapcasters more aggressively in the early game, because you will have a permanent effect later on.
Overall she seems great as a 2-of finisher!

I've played her as a Commander for quite a while, and eventually took the deck apart. She is good when games go late and spells can be cast and recast, but she has the problem of being succeptible to the multitude of GY hate floating around, while being considerably less powerful than the other things abusing the GY. I'll definitely try jamming her and making it happen, because I love her, but I'm not optimistic that she's going to make waves. There's not a shortage of powerful, 4-mana win-more cards.

Quote from Ym1r »

Quote from Aeonsz »

I understand that many of you will disagree, but I have yet to see a single main deck playable level card spoiled from MH1, excluding the slivers and the canopy land cycle.

You mean that cards like Archmage's Charm Ranger-Captain of Eos, Force of Negation, Giver of runes, Fact or Fiction, Prohibit, Scale Up, Lava Dart, Wrenn and Six, Fallen Shinobi, Eladamri's Call, Ice-Fang Coatl, and Mox Tantalite, and that's just from the top of my head, are not maindeckable?

Depends really on what your interpretation of maindeckable is.

If you mean they'll be played main deck as people experiment with new cards? For sure.

In the long term? Not really, half of that list of cards won't be able to carve a spot for themselves in Modern past the experimental period because they can't hack it in the Modern arms race.

Not to say they aren't good cards, but there could just be no home for them yet. Fallen Shinobi for example, is there a UB deck that's interested in proactively attacking to trigger ninjutsu? What about Ice-fang Coatl, is there a UG deck that wants to run enough snow permanents for that payoff?

Even something like Ranger-Captain that at 1st glance seems like a auto-include in 5C Humans but is actually just one of the many flex slot considerations. White Weenie or D&T could be more playable with it and Giver of Runes but they don't really address the main problems of those archetypes either.

We still have more spoilers coming up so fingers-crossed.

I understand that many of you will disagree, but I have yet to see a single main deck playable level card spoiled from MH1, excluding the slivers and the canopy land cycle.

Yawgmoth is not a good card for Aristocrats. It's OK to have expensive reset spells (Return to the Ranks, Rally the Ancestors) and cheap sac outlets (Viscera Seer, Cartel Aristocrat) - your plan is to chump block/sac early, then play your reset spell and drain them out later. It's not OK to have expensive sac outlets like Yawgmoth - then your plan becomes...play a bunch of dudes early, then play Yawgmoth, sac your board, and die to attacks because you have no blockers and Yawgmoth's ability ate all your life.

Yawgmoth is tech against Humans in the same way that Chameleon Colossus is tech against Death's Shadow. Well, until you get killed by a flying Mantis Rider or have Yawgmoth exiled to Deputy of Detention, that is. (I knew there was an upside to Deputy not being a human lol)

Talismans are not too exciting. If you're playing some sort of artifact reanimator deck, the RW talisman/signet will either 1) give you an artifact to sac to Trash for Treasure, or 2) ramp you into Refurbish if you hit an untapped land drop next turn. The problem is there aren't any game-winning artifacts to reanimate.

Eladamri's Call is pretty good. You pay an extra 2 mana to get your creature, just like Finale of Devastation, but Call is an instant, you don't have to pay for the creature + tutor tax all at once, and it goes to your hand so you can use it to grab our dear boi Allosaurus Rider and cast him for his alternate cost for example.

Praying for Toxic Deluge and a non random version of Hymn

Lack of Containment Priest is deeply saddening, unless they are planning on sticking her in an upcoming standard set

Yeah thats what I saw in the crunch thread but I wasnt sure just someone saying its confirmed not in.

A worse version, tied to a creature, probably gets in, since that seems par for the course for the set...

Deed wouldn't fix anything. I've already said it before, answers is no longer what is needed. It's super efficient threats and card filtering. Hym is just a powerful effect that sorta hits everything.

They havent revealed many black cards yet so I'm waiting for next week.

Reid Duke has some kind reveal, maybe some kind of fixed DRS, I think. That and a sylvan library that's fixed and good would be a huge win for me. Hym I'm not sure what would do, I dont know what a fixed mana efficient version would look like.

Library would be amazing.

I think Deed is likely and would be pretty sweet.

Midrange and Shadow decks nearly nonexistent in SCG tournament. The archetype as a whole needs an influx of good spoilers, or now needs more attention from RnD the way blue was given the past few years.

DRS like card or bust for this set!