Have you done any initial testing with him yet? Thoughts?
Yeah I actually like him a lot, even if you drop him early he is a 2/2 with trample and bears are serviceable if you need the early body. Turn 4/5 if delirium hits it is like playing a hooting mandrills. I think as far as my build goes, I need to cut a few creatures and add more removal.
So in honor of Eldritch Evolution I thought that this kind of deck would be worth revisiting. I have not done any testing yet but wanted to bounce this idea off of a few people.
And here is my 75:
Now before all of you go bananas and start saying "this belongs in the budget session because you have no tarmogoyfs and you are trying to pass off savage knuckleblade as a replacement. Well it may be true I have no goyfs however there is a method to the madness. This deck is build like more of a classic splinter twin shell and less of the creature heavy RGx Kiki-Toolbox kit. Using Eldritch Evolution as a mean to cheat out Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker as opposed to chord of calling mainly because we do not have the means to cast it efficiently even with the convoke cost, as we do not run CoCo. Now the reason I thought we would want savage knuckleblade for this is because we need to sacrifice a 3 drop to get Kiki from our library, we obviously do not want to sacrifice one of our win cons in Bounding Krasis or pestermite and the lurgoyf does not work, therefore I went with Savage Knuckleblade (my other choice was huntmaster of the fells however the deck is already slow enough) This is by no means a finished product just curious what people think, I know its slow (probably looking at turn 5 win-con) and probably won't revive twin but hey you never know
PS Sarkhan is not a 100% serious sideboard card, I just have one and he is badass lol
@Tennisbro: That's an interesting take on Bant Delver! Have you been getting a lot of value out of Voice of Resurgence? What turn are you generally dropping it?
I get great value on him! When I play him is a bit different based on what type of deck I am playing against and what the board state looks like, which is why he is fits perfectly in this flex role for me. He can either come down early as a beater, and if he trades you still get a token out of it. Or if you are playing a more control heavy deck I try to play him turn 3-4 provided I have some counters or protection in hand. Generally he nets me 1-2 tokens, which seems underwhelming but when you consider on average they are 2/2s vs the 1/1 from young pyromancer and they hold their numbers better than that of monastery mentor, who is a minimum turn 5 play because you need to protect him and you only get 1-2 tokens as well. When I voice of resurgence out my general strategy is to counter noncreature spells, and bounce creatures. If all goes well I can net 2-4 tokens which tilts so easily, however this also requires some good draws, thankfully in delver you should be able to get some good draws.
One thing I may pursue would be the inclusion of disrupting shoal it is a powerful card game 1 but after its kinda meh
Here is the list I'm currently running. With Thought Scour, keeping Geist of Saint Traft because he is such a champion when he hits the field. I don't think I want to run Tarmogoyf because there are already a ton of threats in the deck and I alone wouldn't be able to get him over a 4/5 (if my grave yard is still fully intact, which against delver most people throw in grave hate past board) Also I don't have $600 to shell out for a play set so I'm gunna make this work ha ha ha. Haven't done much testing with the Scours but will update when I have.
Agree with you and OP that tarmogoyf are not necessary. I have recently been brewing bant delver on xMage the last couple weeks. My version is more of a grow concept that does not utilize snapcaster mage. However I did find that I needed a 2 drop threat to replace my empty creature spot, enter voice of resurgence, who is very versatile in this deck. In a format where jund colors are running rampant on the meta (dredgevine, jund, suicide zoo) removal is as popular as ever. Now geist of saint traft naturally escapes anything that is not a board wipe, hooting mandrills dodges anything that is not hard removal, Delver of secrets is delver so you know what you are getting there, but voice gives us something different:
1) the ability to grow in more grindy games, provided you can protect your creatures (and in bant you should)
2) trades with removal, and if killed on your turn you double up on tokens, I put this in the deck with a young peezy idea in mind, should you be able to protect your threats if they attempt to remove them, also the tokens usually end up being larger than that of YP and have more growth potential than those of monastery mentor while still being cheaper CMC
Valorous Stance - very underrated, can save a creature from board wipe or combat, also can remove any fatties your opponent is dropping Simic Charm - vapor snags 4&5 in this deck, can pump the monkeys or give another creature hexproof.
The rest of the counters and draw spells should be obvious as far as Delver Staples.
I have also considered adding a few Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in to the deck to possible speed up the engine so we can get hooting mandrills out earlier. Also when flipped he is very useful midgame
Yo everyone, I just moved to Denver Colorado and I am looking for some MTG players in the area. I am going to be attending graduate school in May. but until then I have a decent amount of free time, and even in grad school I will have a fair amount of time. I play EDH and Modern mainly. Rocking a Momir Vigg edh deck, and mono u merfolk for modern. Hit me up on here if you are down to chill and play some hour long commander games haha (the more the merrier)
Overall I am pretty chill I'm also interested in hiking or basketball if anyone wants to do that also =D
This may be off topic but I have looked at the new eldrazi control threads and cannot find where all the <>BG builds went. Did eldrazi followers give up on incorporating green, or did it just prove to be not as useful during testing. I have not tested this deck as much as I wanted (working on ninja/faerie deck atm as well) but I have a hard time believing that cards such as Abrupt Decay as well as some of the new green eldrazi cannot find a place in a build, not to mention all the great sideboard tech we get.
or, maybe he said He's new and would like some feedback.
i also think it's funny that a netdecker is calling out a new player for wanting to build his own decks. go back to copying other peoples decks because you lack creativity, jynxed.
Most likely on innistrad. Based on the new card call the gatewatch both ulamog (already confirmed) and kozilek (from the artwork in the card) are on zendikar. Meaning Emrakul is the one casting the shadow over innistrad. Unless the forces in zendikar fail and get defeated and both the eldrazi bolt for innistrad
Werewolf decks have been around for a while. The issue is that they are too slow to really do any serious damage. In order to counteract this the version I made included utopia sprawl and blood moon as a means of mana screwing my opponents. This ended up being much more advantageous. Blood moon super fits the flavor and destroys the meta right now.
But you are better off including simian spirit guides at that point and more mana ramp in which you no longer have a WW deck and just a moon deck. Sadly we got no WWs in the tarkir or zendikar block. Maybe if wizards is nice we will get a few in innistrad. But I was enthusiastic about allies in zendikar and that was a failure
I'm gonna say right now oath is looking like another disappointing set, it looks like wizards is going hard with the eldrazi tribal but leaving allies in the dust.
In the second and third games ours Colected Company are being diluited due to we introduce a lot of non creature spells, I think we have to make a SB with some hatebears.
If you read my post earlier in the thread you will see that I already posted a list of sideboard cards that consist mostly of hatebears
Hey just curious how do you feel the Judge's Familiars play as opposed to the signal pests? Also do you think there is another fairy or utility creature we can better utilize in this spot? Have you considered a card like spellskite or Kira, Great Glass-Spinner? I have playtested both of these and they worked well. Kira perhaps a little too slow and vulnerable to board wipe. Spellskite absorbed removal which worked wonders some games against jund/junk due to abrupt decay and Maelstrom Pulse being the only cards we cannot really counter, as well as rending volley in any other red deck.
I have also taken a slightly different route and cut the familiars and Skaab Ruinator, 1 island, and the sword. In their place I added a complete set of disrupting shoals, being as it works really well in gaining serious tempo with this kind of deck early, as well as adding in 3 day's undoing. I was a really big fan of this card when it first game out, but have not found a shell to use it in. Part of the issue with this deck is losing valuable fairies as well as having too few cards in hand. Undoing puts our fairies back in our decks, as well as giving us a chance to restart with 7 cards. I could be wrong (as undoing really has been lackluster so far and most likely unplayable) but it could be worth a shot. I would love to hear your opinion on these ideas though.
Hey guys, I've been around some Grixis Delver lists, but then I saw one that has a creature base almost identical as the old UR Delver Burn lists from Legacy, so it got me hooked up a little bit:
Then I just realized that some people talked about Send to Sleep some days before. It's really starting to feel like a winning route here, going for the early beats then tap their defenders for 2 turns, time enough to put you ahead and start going all-in with your creatures and burn straight up.
Also, Roast is a good alternative against delve creatures/goyf in the UR spectrum.
x Remand
1 Dispel
2 or 3 spell pierce
2 or 3 spell snare
I didn't do any math here, but what I mean here is the following: Drop a lot of cheap threats, remove/neutralize blockers and get yourself ahead with beats. The cheapness of all the spells assure us to be ahead on the first few turns against almost every deck in the format, giving us a pretty good edge.
It's just some idea I've had here (someone must already have had it), pretty similar to UR Delver decklists, but with some extra agressiveness in it.
What do you guys think about it? It's pretty similar to burn lists, but I think it's more able to get around threats (counters, removal and "removal"), more combat damage oriented but with still a lot of burn+snap in it. I haven't really got some time to think about it more sharply, just throwing some base for us to try (or not) developing something around it.
I like the list, idk about the mainboard roast, but other than that it looks similar to a jeskai build I have been tinkering with(PtE instead of roast). I do think send to sleep is a great choice for the mainboard depending on your local meta (for mine lots of junk, jund, elves it would work great)
Yeah I actually like him a lot, even if you drop him early he is a 2/2 with trample and bears are serviceable if you need the early body. Turn 4/5 if delirium hits it is like playing a hooting mandrills. I think as far as my build goes, I need to cut a few creatures and add more removal.
My 1st draft of a BUG deck using grim flayer
And here is my 75:
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Bounding Krasis
3 Pestermite
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Legendary Enchantments (4)
4 Oath of Nissa
Sorceries (8)
4 Serum Visions
3 Eldritch Evolution
Instants (10)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
3 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Cryptic Command
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Stomping Grounds
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
1 Roast
1 Spellskite
1 Thragtusk
1 Guttural Response
2 Dispel
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Electrickery
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Negate
Now before all of you go bananas and start saying "this belongs in the budget session because you have no tarmogoyfs and you are trying to pass off savage knuckleblade as a replacement. Well it may be true I have no goyfs however there is a method to the madness. This deck is build like more of a classic splinter twin shell and less of the creature heavy RGx Kiki-Toolbox kit. Using Eldritch Evolution as a mean to cheat out Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker as opposed to chord of calling mainly because we do not have the means to cast it efficiently even with the convoke cost, as we do not run CoCo. Now the reason I thought we would want savage knuckleblade for this is because we need to sacrifice a 3 drop to get Kiki from our library, we obviously do not want to sacrifice one of our win cons in Bounding Krasis or pestermite and the lurgoyf does not work, therefore I went with Savage Knuckleblade (my other choice was huntmaster of the fells however the deck is already slow enough) This is by no means a finished product just curious what people think, I know its slow (probably looking at turn 5 win-con) and probably won't revive twin but hey you never know
PS Sarkhan is not a 100% serious sideboard card, I just have one and he is badass lol
I get great value on him! When I play him is a bit different based on what type of deck I am playing against and what the board state looks like, which is why he is fits perfectly in this flex role for me. He can either come down early as a beater, and if he trades you still get a token out of it. Or if you are playing a more control heavy deck I try to play him turn 3-4 provided I have some counters or protection in hand. Generally he nets me 1-2 tokens, which seems underwhelming but when you consider on average they are 2/2s vs the 1/1 from young pyromancer and they hold their numbers better than that of monastery mentor, who is a minimum turn 5 play because you need to protect him and you only get 1-2 tokens as well. When I voice of resurgence out my general strategy is to counter noncreature spells, and bounce creatures. If all goes well I can net 2-4 tokens which tilts so easily, however this also requires some good draws, thankfully in delver you should be able to get some good draws.
One thing I may pursue would be the inclusion of disrupting shoal it is a powerful card game 1 but after its kinda meh
Agree with you and OP that tarmogoyf are not necessary. I have recently been brewing bant delver on xMage the last couple weeks. My version is more of a grow concept that does not utilize snapcaster mage. However I did find that I needed a 2 drop threat to replace my empty creature spot, enter voice of resurgence, who is very versatile in this deck. In a format where jund colors are running rampant on the meta (dredgevine, jund, suicide zoo) removal is as popular as ever. Now geist of saint traft naturally escapes anything that is not a board wipe, hooting mandrills dodges anything that is not hard removal, Delver of secrets is delver so you know what you are getting there, but voice gives us something different:
1) the ability to grow in more grindy games, provided you can protect your creatures (and in bant you should)
2) trades with removal, and if killed on your turn you double up on tokens, I put this in the deck with a young peezy idea in mind, should you be able to protect your threats if they attempt to remove them, also the tokens usually end up being larger than that of YP and have more growth potential than those of monastery mentor while still being cheaper CMC
And here is my 75:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Hooting Mandrills
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Spells (27)
4 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
2 Valorous Stance
2 Simic Charm
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
3 Vapor Snag
3 Spell Snare
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Breeding Pool
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Spell Pierce
2 Disenchant
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Cryptic Command
2 Celestial Purge
2 Negate
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Supreme Verdict
As for my spells:
Valorous Stance - very underrated, can save a creature from board wipe or combat, also can remove any fatties your opponent is dropping
Simic Charm - vapor snags 4&5 in this deck, can pump the monkeys or give another creature hexproof.
The rest of the counters and draw spells should be obvious as far as Delver Staples.
I have also considered adding a few Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in to the deck to possible speed up the engine so we can get hooting mandrills out earlier. Also when flipped he is very useful midgame
Overall I am pretty chill I'm also interested in hiking or basketball if anyone wants to do that also =D
OH DAYUM! SHOTS FIRED!!!!!!
But you are better off including simian spirit guides at that point and more mana ramp in which you no longer have a WW deck and just a moon deck. Sadly we got no WWs in the tarkir or zendikar block. Maybe if wizards is nice we will get a few in innistrad. But I was enthusiastic about allies in zendikar and that was a failure
If you read my post earlier in the thread you will see that I already posted a list of sideboard cards that consist mostly of hatebears
I have also taken a slightly different route and cut the familiars and Skaab Ruinator, 1 island, and the sword. In their place I added a complete set of disrupting shoals, being as it works really well in gaining serious tempo with this kind of deck early, as well as adding in 3 day's undoing. I was a really big fan of this card when it first game out, but have not found a shell to use it in. Part of the issue with this deck is losing valuable fairies as well as having too few cards in hand. Undoing puts our fairies back in our decks, as well as giving us a chance to restart with 7 cards. I could be wrong (as undoing really has been lackluster so far and most likely unplayable) but it could be worth a shot. I would love to hear your opinion on these ideas though.
Viva la mono blue!
I like the list, idk about the mainboard roast, but other than that it looks similar to a jeskai build I have been tinkering with(PtE instead of roast). I do think send to sleep is a great choice for the mainboard depending on your local meta (for mine lots of junk, jund, elves it would work great)