The all-in zombie engine is the use of life from the loam to supply land card fuel for zombie infestation and the recurring nature of the creatures as fuel for Bridge from below to birth zombies, not the running of zombies for zombies sake. Bridge is a backstop to the flimsy not always in-hand nature of zombie infestation. 12 creatures is pretty high for what they are being used for. Darkblast is the main sac outlet: It is very important that it hit the yard early, perferably to a turn two zombie infestation drop and discard. Street wraith has a proven track record and obvious power as a discard/card source for the dredge theme. But, it does not actually recur; once in the yard it stays there. The deck is, though, a hybrid and not a dredge deck per say. Stinkweed imp is great and dredges harder, but it is harder to get rid of with the recurring card only setup. gravecrawler was actually in the deck until i found the into-play effect of Nether Traitor that meshes very well with Bloodghast. If i were to go up to 16 creatures it would be him. Mutavault is an remarkably great suggestion; definitely missing manlands. That is a near unforgivable omission on my part. I would love to have room for Horizon canopy as a recurrable draw source... But, to run either/or both Ghost Quarter would have to come out. zombie infestation without life from the loam makes a lot less sense. Birthing zombies from abusable mechanics is the effort being put forth here, there are perfectly good and effective dredge decks out there: They are beautiful.
I am waiting on some of the cards to come in to augment the loam deck that im running now. Changes may well be forthcoming. And, I have... no Mutavaults. :'(
Key Tenets Blood Magic; Hurt yourself to win Maximum Recursion; Flashback and return to play effects Loam from the loam + dredge engine
Core:BGR Splash: U
Blood Loam is an all-in dredge zombie engine deck; a hybridization born of modern's version of legacy dredge and Loam Pox. Sedraxis Specter fills the role of Small Pox, in that it is an asymmetrical discard and three damage effect rather than the symmetrical discard, one damage, land destruction effect. This solves the main flaw in Small Pox; when dredged it is dead. Zombie Infestation and Bridge from Below make up the zombie engine that provides the main threats, when combined with Life from the Loam, sac effects and the wildly recursive Bloodghast and Nether Traitor(the Nether Shadow of the deck). In the absence of Dread Return, Cabal Therapy and the blue mana base of legacy, Darkblast and Flame Jab pull double duty as the sac outlets and recurring removal. Those along with Raven's Crime, as a discard outlet, are the self-inflicted wounds that give the deck its name; a nod to Blood Magic. It is a deck that mills itself, discards its own cards, removes its own creatures, sacs its own lands and pays life for its mana... Pain is gain: Self-sacrifice is power.
True and total graveyard interaction; everything in the yard are toys you can play with. What goes in can always come back out, at least once or otherwise affect the game state. Your hand is your hand, but your graveyard is also your hand.
Graveyards hate and board wipes will always be a problem for decks of this nature; graveyard interaction and tokens. But they are exceptionally fun to play, often catch people off guard and gather onlookers.
Aggro loam may have already found a card for us. Zombie infestation is card that burn a fuel source that we have a ridiculous amount of; extra cards in hand. And, at only two mana, it is well suited for the low mana curve of this deck. It goes wide against aggro and requires very little bookkeeping, when compared to monastery mentor. Is it stellar? No. But, it is worth considering dependent on what you are trying to accomplish with a build.
That is a good point about removal being an increased attack surface.
Going back to the discussion from two weeks ago... If three cost enchantment is the desired flavor, I believe Sphinx's Tutelage to be more palatable. A draw engine is online in either scenario and is the totality of the requirements for Sphinx's Tutelage. That brings with it a shift in possibilities; the additional pro's and con's of a reduction in an opponents available answers, but increased effectiveness of any graveyard interaction. And, in a game state where you have mana and no draw ability, the secondary ability of Sphinx's Tutelage becomes a possible get-out-of-jail-free effect to thwart a fizzle. The only real issue that i foresee is getting tutelage too late and having drawn too many cards already. But, with the two-to-one minimum effect with the relatively good chance of milling extra due to the "repeat this process" effect the mill is strong with this one.
Add in the fact that in many of the combo paths everything past the three + one mana costs of the originating spells are essentially free, exist already and require very little additional bookkeeping. I am not, generally, a fan of mill and would not advocate glimpse the unthinkable for obvious reasons.
Ghirapur Æther Grid seems like a very tidious way to lethal ping someone; see Viridian Longbow since you are untaping anyway and it is equipment.
The longbow would be cheaper, easier, kill quicker, synergize better and be more thematic than that grid; you're running untappers. Many three-cost and/or non-bouncing cards in the above list. it is more jeskai storm than cheeri0s. the two decks, though comparable, have differences that are important.
glittering wish, however, would enable an unusual level of interactive play for an all-in como deck like this. That is surely an interesting option against other muddle/reshape tech slot choices in any cheeri0s deck list. the mana base considerations needed would be seemingly less streamlined.
@slax01: Jeskai Ascendancy and Retraction Helix are both parts of jeskai storm. I had thought about ascendancy as well, but now that the cards have come in and i have moved from Forge to paper, playing the deck... three is just too high. the same with mentor being three even as a wincon and, in paper, is an insanity-inducing bookkeeping project. i didnt even bother buying them; they cost three and would be a serious chore to run, IRL. Ghirapur Æther Grid seems like a very tidious way to lethal ping someone; see Viridian Longbow since you are untaping anyway and it is equipment. the question, as always, is what would be taken out of Cheeri0s to run it? the combo you are relating above is so significantly different, it would be a new variant of Cheeri0s, or a hybrid deck. Post a deck list so we can get a look at your game plan.
This what theroycrafting puts me at currently. i have muddle the mixture + Qasali Pridemage sideboard swap out for the Reshape + Lotus Bloom. reshape+lotus tech is something i am comfortable with from my days online playing Eggs. It makes some things possible that id like to try out. Ive been tinkering with the idea of reshaping for Swiftfoot boots and Empyrial Plate as defense/offence answers. The repeatable and free-ish nature of Disciple of Deceit compares favorably to the uncounterable trait of muddle the mixture. Is any of it right? I do not know. But, all information, positive or negative, is progress.
Both serenechaos and izzetmage, have been helpful in their statements. Having now run the deck in person, memnite does indeed perform poorly and there is a problem with "late" game seachrome coasts coming into play tapped. Such is the way of these things.
@Izzetmage: the possible mana production scenarios are the same. In what way is one better, or worse, than the other in the above Magic expression? We are still discussing the early game, yes? While a mox is out and active, any differentiation would not occur until more lands had fallen and even then only as a third land entered as a seachrome. The second copy of seachrome is functional, where as the second copy of mystic is nonfunctional without an active mox. assuming the in-play mox, the mana production, again, achieves parity.
@serenechaos: as to the first turn three mana dream as stated before, it would require the following swaps: 4 muddle the mixture --> 4 reshape, 2 memnite --> 1 swiftfoot boot + 1 lotus bloom. And though it is not ideal, it is a solution. Reshape would perform several functions, other than first turn three mana, and therefore puresteel + myth drop scenarios, a two mana card draw in a cheeri0 for cheeri0 exchange and a tutor for swiftfoot boots anti-removal. Reshape is no more of a dead draw than a muddle or a basic cantrip. there would also be Noxious Revival, Reshape, lotus bloom pathways where life points begat mana; 4 mana + 2 life = 6 mana. The real issue with removing muddle is the reduction in the effective, emergency puresteels. First turn combo and second turn swift boots situations are none too shabby.
The mana base for this deck is far more interesting than Eggs ever was. Mox + Gate is coequal to mox + seachrome in the most relevant phase of this decks play. perhaps it is 2 seachrome coast and 2 mystic gate rather than four of either. I considered Nimbus Maze, but it struck me as dangerously situational. I would so much like a third mana first turn that did not require a second mox in hand. A first turn muddle would be a very productive turn when short an important piece. hence, my move toward at least a singlet of memnite. Second and third turn mana are often too tight.
The sell for Jeskai Ascendancy was hard even to myself. +1/+1 and untapping, but at the cost of discard; devastating. Swiftfoot Boots, though it beats out lightening greaves, helping with some of the removal threats still leaves me wanting. Even with main decking it, I am discomforted basing the totality of a decks functionality on a creature. This puts the value placed on oppnennt tap out so very high. Or, at least, calls the Noxious Revival count into question.
What are your thoughts on the Sphinx's Tutelage find? Abusing an existing deck mechanic, in existing card slots, would certainly seem useful tech.
Some variations of note: Memnite, with Paradise Mantle, is a mox opal that increases the mana available during combo, with the option for chump blocking. Arid Mesa + Plains + Mountain provides a less painful option for fetches in case of low life. Additionally there is no real need for the fetch and the dual lands to match. Arid Mesa opens up the mountain pull. scared foundry, i do not prefer; suffer a shock to use the red mana. Seachrome Coast beats mystic gate even with Muddle the Mixture. With the additional mana provided by Memnite i could likely drop the Plains, but am not.
The sideboard undoubtedly seems janky. But, i am operating under the premise that threat modulation is more important than some kind of an attempt at a panacea of hate. It seems the hate they swap in is nullified by the disappearing threat act the deck pulls. Cheeri0s has a relatively ridged structure; the cards are present because they are needed. As a former Eggs player, I hate to remove functionality for a hope for benefit. Sphinx's Tutelage is a nice threat swap for game two. Storm becomes Mill without real effort. Jeskai Ascendancy can jump in to back up Puresteel Paladin's card draw to protect to combo and threat package. Monastery Mentor horizontally against aggro decks... ugh the bookkeeping, in rl, on him though.
Sphinx's Tutelage would be better than Grinding Station for the anti-life gain backup wincon. You may not be able to muddle for it, but you don't kill your Cheeri0s. Plus, it still has all of that awesome legacy grindstone flavor, minus all that pesky mana and tapping of the original grindstone; repeat this process.
Speaking of transformational sideboards...
3 Sphinx's Tutelage
1 Jace's erasure
The four myth realized/mentors come out, then highly efficient card draw becomes highly efficient mill FTW.
(The jace's is included to be muddled for. Otherwise, 4 Sphinx's Tutelage instead)
I am waiting on some of the cards to come in to augment the loam deck that im running now. Changes may well be forthcoming. And, I have... no Mutavaults. :'(
Key Tenets
Blood Magic; Hurt yourself to win
Maximum Recursion; Flashback and return to play effects
Loam from the loam + dredge engine
Core:B G R Splash: U
**Dragonslayer**
Updated Post-Gargadon Version:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
3 dryad arbor
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 mountain
1 forest
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
3 Shattered Perception
2 Conflagrate
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Thug
Original Idea:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Dakmor Salvage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Bridge from Below
Enablers
4 Life from the Loam
4 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
4 Sedraxis Specter
4 Bloodghast
4 Nether Traitor
Blood Loam is an all-in dredge zombie engine deck; a hybridization born of modern's version of legacy dredge and Loam Pox. Sedraxis Specter fills the role of Small Pox, in that it is an asymmetrical discard and three damage effect rather than the symmetrical discard, one damage, land destruction effect. This solves the main flaw in Small Pox; when dredged it is dead. Zombie Infestation and Bridge from Below make up the zombie engine that provides the main threats, when combined with Life from the Loam, sac effects and the wildly recursive Bloodghast and Nether Traitor(the Nether Shadow of the deck). In the absence of Dread Return, Cabal Therapy and the blue mana base of legacy, Darkblast and Flame Jab pull double duty as the sac outlets and recurring removal. Those along with Raven's Crime, as a discard outlet, are the self-inflicted wounds that give the deck its name; a nod to Blood Magic. It is a deck that mills itself, discards its own cards, removes its own creatures, sacs its own lands and pays life for its mana... Pain is gain: Self-sacrifice is power.
Strengths:
Creatures: 100% Recurrable
Spells: 100% Recurrable
Lands: 100% Recurrable
Core: Non-recurrable
True and total graveyard interaction; everything in the yard are toys you can play with. What goes in can always come back out, at least once or otherwise affect the game state. Your hand is your hand, but your graveyard is also your hand.
Issues:
The main drawback, as opposed to Loam Pox, is the lessened assault upon the opponents lands. Ghost Quarter is ever important. Crack the earth was a real contender, sadly it does not recur. Cabal Therapy... AHHH! A lack of life gain from the loss of Golgari Brownscale and Siphon Life leaves much to be desired; singletons of either perhaps. The lack of Tasigur, the Golden Fang is unfortunate and the use of Vengeful Pharaoh can actually be counterproductive at times; kills Bridge from Below. Narcomoeba and Stinkweed Imp didn't make the cut; Narcomoeba mainly for space reasons, but also weakly recursive and Stinkweed Imp due to the double Darkblast/Flame Jab problem and the power of the Nether Traitor recursion ability. Young Pyromancer would work well here, but space is at such a premium and he is not recurrable. Abrupt Decay in the board, along with ancient grudge, but otherwise the sideboard up in the air.
Graveyards hate and board wipes will always be a problem for decks of this nature; graveyard interaction and tokens. But they are exceptionally fun to play, often catch people off guard and gather onlookers.
Going back to the discussion from two weeks ago... If three cost enchantment is the desired flavor, I believe Sphinx's Tutelage to be more palatable. A draw engine is online in either scenario and is the totality of the requirements for Sphinx's Tutelage. That brings with it a shift in possibilities; the additional pro's and con's of a reduction in an opponents available answers, but increased effectiveness of any graveyard interaction. And, in a game state where you have mana and no draw ability, the secondary ability of Sphinx's Tutelage becomes a possible get-out-of-jail-free effect to thwart a fizzle. The only real issue that i foresee is getting tutelage too late and having drawn too many cards already. But, with the two-to-one minimum effect with the relatively good chance of milling extra due to the "repeat this process" effect the mill is strong with this one.
Add in the fact that in many of the combo paths everything past the three + one mana costs of the originating spells are essentially free, exist already and require very little additional bookkeeping. I am not, generally, a fan of mill and would not advocate glimpse the unthinkable for obvious reasons.
also, recently, this: SPHINX’S TUTELAGE: A MAJORS DECK?
The longbow would be cheaper, easier, kill quicker, synergize better and be more thematic than that grid; you're running untappers. Many three-cost and/or non-bouncing cards in the above list. it is more jeskai storm than cheeri0s. the two decks, though comparable, have differences that are important.
glittering wish, however, would enable an unusual level of interactive play for an all-in como deck like this. That is surely an interesting option against other muddle/reshape tech slot choices in any cheeri0s deck list. the mana base considerations needed would be seemingly less streamlined.
that is all.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Mox Opal
1 Lotus Bloom
COMBO & UTILITY 20
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Myth Realized
1 Grapeshot
4 Reshape
4 Retract
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Noxious Revival
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Kite Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Bone Saw
1 Switffoot Boots
3 Path to Exile
3 Silence
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Muddle the Mixture
This what theroycrafting puts me at currently. i have muddle the mixture + Qasali Pridemage sideboard swap out for the Reshape + Lotus Bloom. reshape+lotus tech is something i am comfortable with from my days online playing Eggs. It makes some things possible that id like to try out. Ive been tinkering with the idea of reshaping for Swiftfoot boots and Empyrial Plate as defense/offence answers. The repeatable and free-ish nature of Disciple of Deceit compares favorably to the uncounterable trait of muddle the mixture. Is any of it right? I do not know. But, all information, positive or negative, is progress.
Both serenechaos and izzetmage, have been helpful in their statements. Having now run the deck in person, memnite does indeed perform poorly and there is a problem with "late" game seachrome coasts coming into play tapped. Such is the way of these things.
@serenechaos: as to the first turn three mana dream as stated before, it would require the following swaps: 4 muddle the mixture --> 4 reshape, 2 memnite --> 1 swiftfoot boot + 1 lotus bloom. And though it is not ideal, it is a solution. Reshape would perform several functions, other than first turn three mana, and therefore puresteel + myth drop scenarios, a two mana card draw in a cheeri0 for cheeri0 exchange and a tutor for swiftfoot boots anti-removal. Reshape is no more of a dead draw than a muddle or a basic cantrip. there would also be Noxious Revival, Reshape, lotus bloom pathways where life points begat mana; 4 mana + 2 life = 6 mana. The real issue with removing muddle is the reduction in the effective, emergency puresteels. First turn combo and second turn swift boots situations are none too shabby.
The sell for Jeskai Ascendancy was hard even to myself. +1/+1 and untapping, but at the cost of discard; devastating. Swiftfoot Boots, though it beats out lightening greaves, helping with some of the removal threats still leaves me wanting. Even with main decking it, I am discomforted basing the totality of a decks functionality on a creature. This puts the value placed on oppnennt tap out so very high. Or, at least, calls the Noxious Revival count into question.
What are your thoughts on the Sphinx's Tutelage find? Abusing an existing deck mechanic, in existing card slots, would certainly seem useful tech.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Mox Opal
2 Memnite
COMBO & UTILITY 20
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Myth Realized
1 Grapeshot
4 Muddle the Mixture
4 Retract
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Noxious Revival
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Kite Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Bone Saw
3 Path to Exile
3 Silence
2 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
1 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Monastery Mentor
Some variations of note:
Memnite, with Paradise Mantle, is a mox opal that increases the mana available during combo, with the option for chump blocking.
Arid Mesa + Plains + Mountain provides a less painful option for fetches in case of low life. Additionally there is no real need for the fetch and the dual lands to match. Arid Mesa opens up the mountain pull. scared foundry, i do not prefer; suffer a shock to use the red mana.
Seachrome Coast beats mystic gate even with Muddle the Mixture. With the additional mana provided by Memnite i could likely drop the Plains, but am not.
The sideboard undoubtedly seems janky. But, i am operating under the premise that threat modulation is more important than some kind of an attempt at a panacea of hate. It seems the hate they swap in is nullified by the disappearing threat act the deck pulls. Cheeri0s has a relatively ridged structure; the cards are present because they are needed. As a former Eggs player, I hate to remove functionality for a hope for benefit. Sphinx's Tutelage is a nice threat swap for game two. Storm becomes Mill without real effort. Jeskai Ascendancy can jump in to back up Puresteel Paladin's card draw to protect to combo and threat package. Monastery Mentor horizontally against aggro decks... ugh the bookkeeping, in rl, on him though.
Speaking of transformational sideboards...
3 Sphinx's Tutelage
1 Jace's erasure
The four myth realized/mentors come out, then highly efficient card draw becomes highly efficient mill FTW.
(The jace's is included to be muddled for. Otherwise, 4 Sphinx's Tutelage instead)