Currently I'm leaning Familiar or Gnomes, reason being I usually need the life gain turn 3 or 4 and I cannot always cast Batterskull by turn 3 or 4 and sometimes I may not have a creature on the board turn 3 or 4 to equip the Collar.
I recently went down to 1 Batterskull main deck and I don't believe I will ever cut it, it is just so much reoccurring value against other decks as well. I always bring in Basilisk Collar from the board against burn but if you feel you really need another card to offset that matchup I would lean towards Filigree Familiar as it replaces itself.
The reason for using the Filigree Familiar is it provides you with the 2 things you need to combat burn, delay their win and provide your own reasonable clock. Having played burn for a very long time the worst matchups are those when I am on a clock and my opponent slows me down. I like familiar because it can replace itself for a larger more impressive threat, gains life (+1 card against burn), and has the potential to block and kill a guide or eidolon which Bottle Gnomes cannot do.
I don't feel our burn matchup is that bad with the main deck chalices and tight play, I am also still on the matter reshaper plan, so chumping a creature/good early threat is advantageous as well
I just wanted to take this up separately. Thanks for the response.
I agree with your assessment. Sometimes I think the 1/3 of Gnomes vs. GG and Eidolon could be advantageous though. I actually like to see that top card and get a free land in hand off Guide. And Eidolon seems to punish the Burn player more than myself. Getting a card off Familiar seems so good since I don't run Reshaper though. I'm torn. Need to do some testing.
Yep Familiar makes the most sense in my list right now. I like Batterskull but think it may be too inconsistent with my lower creature count and the fact that I want the life gain turn 3 or 4, not 5 or later. (Even though I'm running mana accelerators: G.Caverns and SSG)
Which brings me to the last question posed above. I run a full 4 SSG and 3 G.Caverns currently. I often have 2 or sometimes 3 mana available on turn one. This allows Chalice on 1, sometimes a Map and Chalice on one. O.Stone is cast-able turn one. Mana can be left open for Wail, Contortion or Dismember as well. My philosophy on G.Caverns and SSG is you might as well go nearly all in on them for them to really make a difference on turn one. If you want to see these cards consistently turn one, running one Caverns and/or one or two SSG aren't going to cut it. Basically SSG takes the place of Matter Reshaper and G.Caverns takes up Ghost Quarter and Sea Gate Wreckage slots. I ran 4 Caverns for quite some time and would draw too many late game, I've bumped back to 3 and that seems to be the sweet spot. Opening hand percentages are down but still within acceptable range. And yes I do cast a turn one Seer on occasion as well, which just feels dirty sometimes.
As for new Emrakul. Against certain decks she can be downright nasty. Control and combo she just screws up magnificently. I see her as situational and never fetch her with a Conduit unless the situation says she can do more damage to my opponents plans than Ulamog. I think or her as a backup plan, but could see why some would not want to run her in certain Metas.
For those running 4 Chalice MB, how about the best colorless life gain creatures/spells for our decks? I'm thinking vs. Burn or other quick decks that knock you life total down fast.
Here's some of our choices that I see some running and some that aren't used. Thoughts?
Best options of these with 4 Chalice maindeck? Anything else out there?
Currently I'm leaning Familiar or Gnomes, reason being I usually need the life gain turn 3 or 4 and I cannot always cast Batterskull by turn 3 or 4 and sometimes I may not have a creature on the board turn 3 or 4 to equip the Collar. Droplet seems too slow and Elixir seems good but is a nonbo with Chalice set at 1. Wish there was a colorless lifelink Eldrazi out there.
Good to see that. Really wish that list shown ran at least one Conduit of Ruin though. I also think Emrakul, the Promised End is a better choice than new Kozilek.
But in those same scenarios where you have 3 mana on turn 2, you could be having 2 mana on turn 1 Wink
my biggest concern with sphere is that if you are on the draw, even with fast mana and getting it out on turn 2, you arent disrupting them from casting their 3 drop on turn 3.
If you are on the play and get it out on turn 2 you cut them off playing for a turn. Unless they opened on noble hierarch, or expedition map or something.
The card is on my radar for sure. I'm open to improvements, just don't think it could be an improvement to my list. Right now neither Thorn nor Sphere make my 75. It just punishes my own list more than I'd like. Its also a no-go with Planar Bridge in which I'm thinking about running one copy soon. That could change over time though.
Trinisphere
looks and sounds amazing, but I didnt find any builds that can make it work.
it just comes down too late.
It would take something similar to my build, 3 Gemstone Caverns and 4 Simian Spirit Guide. I often have 3 mana available turn 2, and even see it turn one every once in a while. Its possible in some builds.
I admit for most builds Thorn is easier to cast and makes more sense. I just can't get behind it in my specific build. As I said though, I'm not forgetting it, just keeping it in the "maybeboard".
Thorn of Amethyst has been pretty good in my testing.
Its not as good as chalice on one, but it still does a ton of work, it really slows people down, but since we are casting eldrazi,it doesnt really slow us down.
4 chalice 3 thorns is my current split, and it is pretty good.
I've always been intrigued by Thorn of Amethyst. My problem with it is that I run 15 non-creature spells in my main 60. That is a lot of cards to hit myself on with ToA. Granted I run Chalice but Chalice set on one only has 4 cards in my deck to affect. I can see a creature heavy or spell light build maybe wanting to run ToA. If I decide to run a copy of Planar Bridge it may be 16 cards potentially affected. In my build I think Trinisphere could be a better fit than ToA. I will keep it in mind as a possible +2 in my SB though. Good luck.
I find that without the maindeck chalices, you have basically no chance (at least game 1) against decks like burn, infect, ad nauseum, death's shadow, affinity, bogles, etc. Precisely because you're going so big that those deks just get under you. It's even randomly good against control decks and bant eldrazi, since shutting off cantrips and paths is so detrimental. But yeah, in jundy metas I can see moving them off to the side.
I'd recommend to get chalices sooner rather than later if you're interested in this kind of deck. This deck is starting to see more and more play as it is probably underplayed now, so there's bound to go up in price.
Well put. Chalice is a HOUSE against those fast decks with their one mana spells in Game One. Those decks are heavy in my meta hence why I run 4 main deck. I feel good about grabbing my playset for around $30 each at the time, Chalice looks to be pushing over 40 in a lot of places right now.
My advice (if it were me) is just run Chalice in the main 60. It shuts SO much down out there that the loss of 4 Maps can be tolerated. Go a full +4Chalice, go +1 more SSG for a full set of 4 for more consistency, and probably -3 Hedron Crawler, -1 Crusher and either -1 Skite or Mimic. Keep Walking Ballista in mind too as I mentioned in my last post. Good luck and let us know what you go with.
I've tried it and tried it and it's too much of a non-bo for me and lost me 2 matches recently. In my meta I can afford to just run the 3 in the sideboard.
Hey WarMachine... how has the new Emrakul been treating you? After I saw you post it had me interested but I haven't been able to try it out. Is it better than the 2nd Ulamog?
I sure liked it in a recent game vs. Affinity. Won me a game one with no Chalices on the board and opponent forgot to sac Arcbound Ravager to itself and I proceeded to cast his own 4 damage Galvanic Blast and wipe his board of about 7 permanents leaving him with nothing on the mat, not even lands. That was sweet, but shouldn't happen to an experienced player. Against certain decks it can be more effective than Newlamog, but it is situational I've found.
My sealed Phyrexia vs. Coalition duel deck just appreciated in value then.
I just wanted to take this up separately. Thanks for the response.
I agree with your assessment. Sometimes I think the 1/3 of Gnomes vs. GG and Eidolon could be advantageous though. I actually like to see that top card and get a free land in hand off Guide. And Eidolon seems to punish the Burn player more than myself. Getting a card off Familiar seems so good since I don't run Reshaper though. I'm torn. Need to do some testing.
Which brings me to the last question posed above. I run a full 4 SSG and 3 G.Caverns currently. I often have 2 or sometimes 3 mana available on turn one. This allows Chalice on 1, sometimes a Map and Chalice on one. O.Stone is cast-able turn one. Mana can be left open for Wail, Contortion or Dismember as well. My philosophy on G.Caverns and SSG is you might as well go nearly all in on them for them to really make a difference on turn one. If you want to see these cards consistently turn one, running one Caverns and/or one or two SSG aren't going to cut it. Basically SSG takes the place of Matter Reshaper and G.Caverns takes up Ghost Quarter and Sea Gate Wreckage slots. I ran 4 Caverns for quite some time and would draw too many late game, I've bumped back to 3 and that seems to be the sweet spot. Opening hand percentages are down but still within acceptable range. And yes I do cast a turn one Seer on occasion as well, which just feels dirty sometimes.
As for new Emrakul. Against certain decks she can be downright nasty. Control and combo she just screws up magnificently. I see her as situational and never fetch her with a Conduit unless the situation says she can do more damage to my opponents plans than Ulamog. I think or her as a backup plan, but could see why some would not want to run her in certain Metas.
Another Commander spike in the endless line of EDH buyouts?
Here's some of our choices that I see some running and some that aren't used. Thoughts?
Batterskull
Basilisk Collar
Filigree Familiar
Bottle Gnomes
Sun Droplet
Elixir of Immortality
Best options of these with 4 Chalice maindeck? Anything else out there?
Currently I'm leaning Familiar or Gnomes, reason being I usually need the life gain turn 3 or 4 and I cannot always cast Batterskull by turn 3 or 4 and sometimes I may not have a creature on the board turn 3 or 4 to equip the Collar. Droplet seems too slow and Elixir seems good but is a nonbo with Chalice set at 1. Wish there was a colorless lifelink Eldrazi out there.
The card is on my radar for sure. I'm open to improvements, just don't think it could be an improvement to my list. Right now neither Thorn nor Sphere make my 75. It just punishes my own list more than I'd like. Its also a no-go with Planar Bridge in which I'm thinking about running one copy soon. That could change over time though.
It would take something similar to my build, 3 Gemstone Caverns and 4 Simian Spirit Guide. I often have 3 mana available turn 2, and even see it turn one every once in a while. Its possible in some builds.
I admit for most builds Thorn is easier to cast and makes more sense. I just can't get behind it in my specific build. As I said though, I'm not forgetting it, just keeping it in the "maybeboard".
I've always been intrigued by Thorn of Amethyst. My problem with it is that I run 15 non-creature spells in my main 60. That is a lot of cards to hit myself on with ToA. Granted I run Chalice but Chalice set on one only has 4 cards in my deck to affect. I can see a creature heavy or spell light build maybe wanting to run ToA. If I decide to run a copy of Planar Bridge it may be 16 cards potentially affected. In my build I think Trinisphere could be a better fit than ToA. I will keep it in mind as a possible +2 in my SB though. Good luck.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch Moon/Emrakul the Promised End#paper
Copies selling for as low as $11. Enjoy.
Also some of you wanting to play Emrakul, the Promised End and don't have a copy can pick one up cheaper now as well.
Well put. Chalice is a HOUSE against those fast decks with their one mana spells in Game One. Those decks are heavy in my meta hence why I run 4 main deck. I feel good about grabbing my playset for around $30 each at the time, Chalice looks to be pushing over 40 in a lot of places right now.
Understood. Sounds like a meta call.
I sure liked it in a recent game vs. Affinity. Won me a game one with no Chalices on the board and opponent forgot to sac Arcbound Ravager to itself and I proceeded to cast his own 4 damage Galvanic Blast and wipe his board of about 7 permanents leaving him with nothing on the mat, not even lands. That was sweet, but shouldn't happen to an experienced player. Against certain decks it can be more effective than Newlamog, but it is situational I've found.