Ah nice. I'm not running the panoramas so that isn't an option for me, but I did end up cutting Blast Zone. @Upkeep had mentioned he was pulling it because it was too slow to set up and I'm finding the same.
How do you feel about Fabled Passage? This card obviously deserves a home in the 99, but are you upgrading a Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds or are you replacing a different utility land?
Also, Return of the Wildspeaker seems great. I know I’m cutting Shamanic Revelation for it. The ability for a nearly guaranteed 5 cards at instant speed vs the uncertainty that Revelation gives is worth it on its own in my opinion. The ability to pump the team is just icing on the cake.
Good to know about Blast Zone. I slotted it in, but I have yet to see it in a game. Maybe I'll cut it for Field of the Dead. I try to run as few etb tapped lands as possible, but if I net a zombie the turn it comes into play then it's probably worth it. And good idea switching snow covered to regular basics. I'm only running snow covered to activate Mouth of Ronom so I'll probably just do a 50/50 split to diversify for Field of the Dead.
I ran Lotus Vale in the past, but ended up cutting it. Maybe I'll drop Hickory Woodlot to give Lotus Field a shot. I won't have to worry about it getting strip mined immediately and it gives me the sacrifice that I ran Woodlot for anyway.
So I got some testing in with Cryptic Caves and I have to say I really like it. The deck always feels good when you have a crucible + exploration effect in play and you loop fetch lands and Cryptic Caves feels just as good except it refills your hand instead of ramping you up. It won't see heavy use in every game, but it's never dead. I love having a draw effect stapled on to a land considering how our deck is designed to abuse lands.
I’ve been a patron of the CMDR Central podcast and I had them do a deck tech of my list. Have a listen if you’re interested. I didn’t agree with all changes they suggested, but the outside feedback was pretty nice.
I really like the core of this list, but what is your primary win condition? It looks like you have the ability to produce a lot of tokens and make a lot of mana, but I don’t see many outlets for the mana production. Would Jeskai Ascendancy and Anger work in this list to pump the team and give haste? Something like Faithless Looting would give you another way to pitch Anger. If you include ascendancy and looting then Echo of Eons becomes pretty good too.
Looking forward to hear feedback and see how your list evolves.
I was immediately excited about it, but the more I think about it I'm not so sure anymore. It has summoning sickness, it takes two mana to activate, and the land you get comes into play tapped.
Blast zone doesn’t excite me that much even though it is a pretty unique effect on a land. I’m just not sure how efficient it is or what we can realistically expect to blow up with it. I currently run Mouth of Ronom and have only used it once. Maybe this is a good replacement or complimentary card.
Emergence Zone on the other hand has me very excited. I feel like this is a surprise concordant crossroads. There are so many powerful things we can threaten to do on an opponent’s end step. I’m probably going to cut Havenwood Battleground for it.
Natural Balance is a card I always found to be very inconsistent. There were times when it was amazing, and there were times when I couldn't get a good use out of it. As such, I ended up cutting it, along with several other cards with similar problems (Natural Affinity, Constant Mists).
Thanks for the feedback. It got me thinking about why I would want the card and in what situations it could be good. While there are time you can live the dream with the card, it doesn't seem like a card I would want to cast if I'm not living the dream. Unlike Scapeshift, which can really be cast just to upgrade some lands, Natural Balance only fetches basics. It can set opponent's mana bases back, but it still leaves them with 5 mana which is not nothing. It also brings you back to mana parity with your opponents if you don't have a Cradle out, and a mana advantage over your opponents is one of the big strengths of this deck. I think when I want this effect I just want Scapeshift.
In the same vein as Natural Affinity, how do you feel about Heroic Intervention? I guess Natural Affinity is only really useful when someone specifically casts a destroy all creatures card where Intervention can protect against all that plus spot removal. From what I remember when I briefly ran Natural Affinity is that I was rarely lucky enough to have the card in hand when someone board wiped. Heroic Intervention being a bit more flexible would probably see a few more casts, but we actually recover pretty quickly so maybe it's not needed. On the plus side of the cards, if they resolve in the face of a board wipe then we usually just win the game on our next turn.
Constant Mists is an interesting one. Every now and then I get into a game where I'm glad to have it, but I can see why you would cut it. We're almost always the aggressor and usually stronger in combat due to our disposable army.
Is anyone still running Duplicant? This was a card I had for awhile, but at 6 mana with no real way to leverage the body besides tutoring I ended up cutting it. I just wasn't too excited to spend 6 mana to 1 for 1 someone. At the same time, I have no other way to deal with a problematic creature like Avacyn or Ulamog. I've always just relied on killing them if they get something too threatening out.
I'm hoping to see Three Visits reprinted soon. When this card becomes more available, what do you plan on cutting to fit it in. I'm not sure if I'll cut a non ramp spell to increase the amount I run, or if I'll cut Sakura-Tribe Elder for the minor upgrade of getting the land into play untapped.
It's been awhile since I've put in any work to this list, but I'm coming back around on it. Has anyone played with Natural Balance lately? It was a card I ran in the past and I think the one or two times I cast it it was alright, but I ended up cutting it. I've been pondering changes to my list and I started thinking about this card again. Is it worthwhile? Also, has anyone slotted in Pir's Whim yet? At 4cmc it seems expensive since the land comes into play tapped, but getting everyone to sac an enchantment or artifact makes up for a lot of that.
Is there anything in my list that hasn't served you well to cut for any of the cards in my maybeboard??
I'm currently running a Kiki-Jiki list that's been a blast to play. I'm looking to tune it up a little and whittle down some of the cards that I'm considering. What has been your experience with the following? I'll give my initial thoughts so you have a baseline. I'd love to hear if there is anything in the deck or maybeboard that just hasn't performed, seems out of place.
Dualcaster Mage and Fork - These cards serve the same purpose, but how useful have you found duplicating opponents spells on the stack?
Mindclaw Shaman, Stolen Strategy, Direfleet Daredevil - I've always been a little unsure about cards that rely on your opponents deck. They don't always have what you need so they can be inconsistent, but sometimes you get to cast Expropriate.
Magewright's Stone - Getting two Kiki activations is awesome, but Kiki-Jiki and Feldon are about the only creatures in the deck that it synergizes with. Is it worth it?
How do the cards in my maybeboard look?
Goblin Welder - I'm not really an artifact centric deck, but this card is just powerful.
Molten Primordial and Meteor Golem - Two cards whose value scales with how powerful your opponent's board is. I feel like I'm full at the 6-8cmc slot, so do any of these seem like more powerful finishers at that cmc than what I'm already running?
Helm of Possession - This card seems like a great outlet for Kiki tokens, but is it too clunky?
Flameshadow Conjuring - This card looks great on paper, but I've never had experience with it in play. Generally I haven't cared for cards that add a tax to anything you're trying to do. How well has this card played out for anyone who's ran it?
I think the point is to Lignify Meren and not the frog haha. But I'd consider Song of the Dryads over Lignify. If you Song Meren it will be much harder for them to put her back in the command zone for recasting because most of their sac outlets are for creatures and not any old permanent.
Ok. I can see this coming in over Murderous Cut. Price of Fame is going to hit important creatures early for less than Cut would. Late game it may cost 1-3 mana more, but the cost is less likely to matter and you still get to surveil two.
I don't have a spot for Contempt yet as I'm not completely sold on it.
I ran Disciple of Bolas at one time. The card was either great or awkward. Sometimes I didn't always have a creature I was willing to give up for a 4 mana 2/1. Maybe I'll reconsider though.
As far as Price of Fame goes, when it's targeting a legendary creature, that's awesome, and the surveil 2 is great. I'm not sure I want to pay 4 to kill an ordinary creature though. If this makes the deck, I could see it taking Murderous Cut or Go for the Throat's spot. Is everyone on board with this card? My initial feeling though is that if I may have to pay 4 mana to use it, I'd rather just have Vraska's Contempt and have the option to hit walkers and indestructible creatures.
In your current list, three cards jump out as removable/replaceable with some better instant speed interaction:
Bone Shredder is a little over priced for what you are getting, as Dark Banishing was never exactly spectacular. Even in a deck that wants to see its creatures sac themselves, you have enough redundancy there already.
Similarly Vampire Hexmage is more of a meta call. I don't tend to see planeswalkers that I can't kill with removal or combat, and that's about the only silver bullet that I have to deal with. If you don't have huge, relevant targets, you could easily make this Vraska's Contempt.
Finally, the third Sign in Blood variant doesan't tend to get as much mileage, especailly since you have Arena and Necro too. I would cut Night's whisper and grab something else from your maybeboard. (My vote goes to the Mischief, I love that card.)
Cutting Bone Shredder is a good idea. With the addition of Plaguecrafter, I still have the same amount of creatures that sacrifice themselves.
I still like Hexmage in my playgroup, but I'll definitely pay more attention to how useful it is.
I'm not sure how I feel about cutting the draw, but it's another thing for me to keep an eye on.
Here's where I'm at.
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
1x Command Beacon
1x Cryptic Caves
1x Crystal Vein
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dust Bowl
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Fabled Passage
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Hickory Woodlot
1x Homeward Path
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Petrified Field
1x Prismatic Vista
14x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
Creature (15)
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Bane of Progress
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Eternal Witness
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Wayward Swordtooth
1x Woodland Bellower
Instant (13)
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Constant Mists
1x Crop Rotation
1x Force of Vigor
1x Harrow
1x Heroic Intervention
1x Krosan Grip
1x Momentous Fall
1x Nature's Claim
1x Return of the Wildspeaker
1x Return to Nature
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Elemental Bond
1x Exploration
1x Greater Good
1x Sylvan Library
Sorcery (14)
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Finale of Devastation
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Life's Legacy
1x Natural Order
1x Nature's Lore
1x Pir's Whim
1x Regrowth
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Scapeshift
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Three Visits
1x Triumph of the Hordes
Artifact (8)
1x Akroma's Memorial
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Expedition Map
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Diamond
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sol Ring
1x Zuran Orb
Also, Return of the Wildspeaker seems great. I know I’m cutting Shamanic Revelation for it. The ability for a nearly guaranteed 5 cards at instant speed vs the uncertainty that Revelation gives is worth it on its own in my opinion. The ability to pump the team is just icing on the cake.
I ran Lotus Vale in the past, but ended up cutting it. Maybe I'll drop Hickory Woodlot to give Lotus Field a shot. I won't have to worry about it getting strip mined immediately and it gives me the sacrifice that I ran Woodlot for anyway.
Listen here!
Looking forward to hear feedback and see how your list evolves.
I was immediately excited about it, but the more I think about it I'm not so sure anymore. It has summoning sickness, it takes two mana to activate, and the land you get comes into play tapped.
Emergence Zone on the other hand has me very excited. I feel like this is a surprise concordant crossroads. There are so many powerful things we can threaten to do on an opponent’s end step. I’m probably going to cut Havenwood Battleground for it.
Prismatic Vista will find a home here too.
Thanks for the feedback. It got me thinking about why I would want the card and in what situations it could be good. While there are time you can live the dream with the card, it doesn't seem like a card I would want to cast if I'm not living the dream. Unlike Scapeshift, which can really be cast just to upgrade some lands, Natural Balance only fetches basics. It can set opponent's mana bases back, but it still leaves them with 5 mana which is not nothing. It also brings you back to mana parity with your opponents if you don't have a Cradle out, and a mana advantage over your opponents is one of the big strengths of this deck. I think when I want this effect I just want Scapeshift.
In the same vein as Natural Affinity, how do you feel about Heroic Intervention? I guess Natural Affinity is only really useful when someone specifically casts a destroy all creatures card where Intervention can protect against all that plus spot removal. From what I remember when I briefly ran Natural Affinity is that I was rarely lucky enough to have the card in hand when someone board wiped. Heroic Intervention being a bit more flexible would probably see a few more casts, but we actually recover pretty quickly so maybe it's not needed. On the plus side of the cards, if they resolve in the face of a board wipe then we usually just win the game on our next turn.
Constant Mists is an interesting one. Every now and then I get into a game where I'm glad to have it, but I can see why you would cut it. We're almost always the aggressor and usually stronger in combat due to our disposable army.
Is anyone still running Duplicant? This was a card I had for awhile, but at 6 mana with no real way to leverage the body besides tutoring I ended up cutting it. I just wasn't too excited to spend 6 mana to 1 for 1 someone. At the same time, I have no other way to deal with a problematic creature like Avacyn or Ulamog. I've always just relied on killing them if they get something too threatening out.
I'm hoping to see Three Visits reprinted soon. When this card becomes more available, what do you plan on cutting to fit it in. I'm not sure if I'll cut a non ramp spell to increase the amount I run, or if I'll cut Sakura-Tribe Elder for the minor upgrade of getting the land into play untapped.
What are your thoughts?
Is there anything in my list that hasn't served you well to cut for any of the cards in my maybeboard??
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
1x Command Beacon
1x Crystal Vein
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dust Bowl
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Havenwood Battleground
1x Hickory Woodlot
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mosswort Bridge
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Petrified Field
14x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Strip Mine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Bane of Progress
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Eternal Witness
1x Garruk's Packleader
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Regal Force
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Wayward Swordtooth
1x Woodland Bellower
Instant (10)
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Constant Mists
1x Crop Rotation
1x Harrow
1x Krosan Grip
1x Momentous Fall
1x Nature's Claim
1x Realms Uncharted
1x Worldly Tutor
Enchantment (5)
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x Elemental Bond
1x Exploration
1x Greater Good
1x Sylvan Library
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
Sorcery (14)
1x Edge of Autumn
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Into the North
1x Life from the Loam
1x Life's Legacy
1x Natural Order
1x Nature's Lore
1x Regrowth
1x Rishkar's Expertise
1x Scapeshift
1x Shamanic Revelation
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Triumph of the Hordes
Artifact (9)
1x Akroma's Memorial
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Expedition Map
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Diamond
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Zuran Orb
Maybeboard (6)
1x Natural Balance
1x Pir's Whim
1x Three Visits
1x Heroic Intervention
1x Natural Affinity
1x Reclamation Sage
Dualcaster Mage and Fork - These cards serve the same purpose, but how useful have you found duplicating opponents spells on the stack?
Mindclaw Shaman, Stolen Strategy, Direfleet Daredevil - I've always been a little unsure about cards that rely on your opponents deck. They don't always have what you need so they can be inconsistent, but sometimes you get to cast Expropriate.
Magewright's Stone - Getting two Kiki activations is awesome, but Kiki-Jiki and Feldon are about the only creatures in the deck that it synergizes with. Is it worth it?
How do the cards in my maybeboard look?
Goblin Welder - I'm not really an artifact centric deck, but this card is just powerful.
Molten Primordial and Meteor Golem - Two cards whose value scales with how powerful your opponent's board is. I feel like I'm full at the 6-8cmc slot, so do any of these seem like more powerful finishers at that cmc than what I'm already running?
Helm of Possession - This card seems like a great outlet for Kiki tokens, but is it too clunky?
Flameshadow Conjuring - This card looks great on paper, but I've never had experience with it in play. Generally I haven't cared for cards that add a tax to anything you're trying to do. How well has this card played out for anyone who's ran it?
1x Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker
Creature (29)
1x Abbot of Keral Keep
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Burnished Hart
1x Combat Celebrant
1x Combustible Gearhulk
1x Dire Fleet Daredevil
1x Dualcaster Mage
1x Duplicant
1x Fanatic of Mogis
1x Feldon of the Third Path
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Goblin Chirurgeon
1x Goblin Cratermaker
1x Goblin Matron
1x Humble Defector
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Inferno Titan
1x Lightning Crafter
1x Matter Reshaper
1x Mindclaw Shaman
1x Sandstone Oracle
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spawn of Thraxes
1x Treasure Keeper
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Gauntlet of Might
1x Hedron Archive
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Magewright's Stone
1x Mimic Vat
1x Mind Stone
1x Panharmonicon
1x Ruby Medallion
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Thornbite Staff
Sorcery (7)
1x All Is Dust
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Shattering Spree
1x Vandalblast
1x Wheel of Fortune
Enchantment (5)
1x Blood Moon
1x Experimental Frenzy
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Outpost Siege
1x Stolen Strategy
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Ghost Quarter
26x Mountain
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scavenger Grounds
1x Terrain Generator
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1x Wooded Foothills
Instant (5)
1x Abrade
1x Chaos Warp
1x Fork
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
Maybeboard
1x Goblin Welder
1x Manic Vandal
1x Meteor Golem
1x Molten Primordial
1x Helm of Possession
1x Phyrexian Altar
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Electrodominance
1x Ruination
1x Flameshadow Conjuring
Deathgorge Scavenger is another option too.
I don't have a spot for Contempt yet as I'm not completely sold on it.
As far as Price of Fame goes, when it's targeting a legendary creature, that's awesome, and the surveil 2 is great. I'm not sure I want to pay 4 to kill an ordinary creature though. If this makes the deck, I could see it taking Murderous Cut or Go for the Throat's spot. Is everyone on board with this card? My initial feeling though is that if I may have to pay 4 mana to use it, I'd rather just have Vraska's Contempt and have the option to hit walkers and indestructible creatures.
Cutting Bone Shredder is a good idea. With the addition of Plaguecrafter, I still have the same amount of creatures that sacrifice themselves.
I still like Hexmage in my playgroup, but I'll definitely pay more attention to how useful it is.
I'm not sure how I feel about cutting the draw, but it's another thing for me to keep an eye on.